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MeetyourUnmaker

Goth versus Metal

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Which music "spirit" is better? I don't mean the exact genres per se, but what would you say is superior? The introspective, percussive, experimental Gothic spirit or the angry, fierce, spirit of metal?

 

goth songs

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMETa77dUrg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN53bSlCqqI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugBFEbGyqwc (not goth specifically, but has the core sound that would influence a lot of goth or goth influenced bands later on like Joy Division)

 

metal songs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKdkFKResr4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2zQKqgNAeE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md3B3I7Nmvw

 

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...superior?  That's quite a loaded and silly approach.  It sets things up for an argument.

 

So instead, I'm going to substitute "superior" with "favorite", and then go with gothic rock since I am a goth.

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What an odd comparison. Especially when there's bands that combine both "spirits" (My Dying Bride, Cradle of Filth, Tiamat).

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What a petty fight. Everyone knows music was invented and shaped to perfection by Blondie and the Pixies. Nico was sexy though.

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I think this is the most random battle ever.Which is better?A musical genre wich orginated from a new "harsher" rock in the late 70s (?) vs music made from a specific nordic tribe from antiquity :/
Jk.But i don't see a reason for making a disscusion about musical prefference since that is like the most subjective thing known to man.

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Those are two genres that aren't mutually incompatible, and music is completely subjective. No genre is better than the other unless we're talking about pop music. Take a look at some Gothic Metal bands that are pretty fantastic in my opinion.

 

I get that the songs in the OP in particular are older but that doesn't matter. These things are still a preference.

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I never saw a whole lot of differences between the 2 types, aside from goth where most artist and listeners dress and look similar, eg black finger nails, piercings and eye liner.

 

I mean goth is metal, as far as I'm concerned, just a different type.

I'm a bit old school though, heck I was listening to Megadeth and Metallica before anyone really heard of them. 

 

Now metal, and thrash/punk music, those or different to me, yet still just a different type of metal.

 

The Op had a link to a Led Zeppelin video as one a the few in the Metal category.

I wouldn't think that Zeppelin would fall in that category though, maybe Hard Rock for it's time, but not as a metal band heh.

 

 

Edited by Mr.Rocket

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Drum and Bass wins, because I like it better. Does that make Drum and Bass "superior"? Probably not. It still wins for me personally, though.

 

To give a more on topic kind of answer: There is no such thing as superiority in any form of art, be it painting, music, acting, whatsoever. That's why art is interesting. If it were any different, we'd all like the same thing, because it would be "the best". Thankfully that's not the case.

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@nxGangGirl
Evanescence is alt rock, not goth metal.

I personally don't mind some goth-influences in my metal. Moonspell had a few releases that were quite heavy on the gothic metal (such as The Antidote).

Bands like My Dying Bride and Draconian are great at combining gothic metal with doom.

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The thing about Goth is, most quintessential Goth songs are by groups that distance themselves from the genre/label as much as possible. Both genres are broadly regarded as being a bit silly, a bit pantomime.  Personally I have more time for Goth than Metal: Metal is supposed to sound hard, aggressive, threatening, cool, but the vast majority of it doesn't make the cut IMHO. Metal was ruined for me by Nine Inch Nails, which did all of those things far better. I still have a little time for bits and pieces, some Metallica, some Slayer, but not a lot. If I had to do a top 10 goth playlist it would have some solid gold on it; I'd really struggle with a compelling top 10 (or top 5) metal list.

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Though I consider them to be goth metal, Type O were more of an "affectionate" parody band than a serious endeavor. Their best-known songs are quite obviously poking fun at goth stereotypes, especially Black No. 1.

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What's "Metal" anyway?

There's so many subgenres here that it is impossible to have it all universally appeal to the same listeners.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Graf Zahl said:

What's "Metal" anyway?

Ssssh, it is said that if you ask that three times, an army of metal snobs comes out of the mirror and kills the thread with arguing about the exact year thrash became stale.

 

I'm still surprised by Nico and the Velvet Underground on that list. I don't feel like the link is strong enough. Is it Nico's hypnotic voice?

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6 hours ago, Agentbromsnor said:

Evanescence is alt rock, not goth metal.

Their earlier work was goth rock/metal. They did began a shift in sound. But their first two albums I would definitely consider goth, even though it's not the traditional sense of the genre.

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1 hour ago, nxGangGirl said:

Their earlier work was goth rock/metal. They did began a shift in sound. But their first two albums I would definitely consider goth, even though it's not the traditional sense of the genre.

I think they also tend to get lumped together with goth subculture as a whole because of their aesthetic style.

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16 minutes ago, YukiRaven said:

I think they also tend to get lumped together with goth subculture as a whole because of their aesthetic style.

Nine Inch Nails, Marilyn Manson, and The Cure are also get the same treatment. Though honestly The Cure kinda asked for it. But I find Evanescence to be legitimate in this regard.

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19 hours ago, nxGangGirl said:

unless we're talking about pop music

 

Gaga is objectively gothier and more metal than all of you

 

metal

 

goth

 

 

therefore, pop music wins again 😂

 

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6 hours ago, dew said:

I'm still surprised by Nico and the Velvet Underground on that list.

Nico's solo Albums 'Marble Index' and 'Desertshore' are very gothic/medieval themed. Quite ahead of it's time for 1968/70

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Neurosis said:

therefore, pop music wins again

Sounds more like goth and metal are the ones that infiltrated pop music. So it looks like they are the winners.

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34 minutes ago, nxGangGirl said:

Sounds more like goth and metal are the ones that infiltrated pop music. So it looks like they are the winners.

 

It's the other way around. Pop music infiltrates everything, eventually. 

The Cure and Evanescence are as pop influenced as you can get. 

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I've never listened to Nico's "Desertshore" but the X-TG cover album of it is... very interesting, and very goth.

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I happen to be metal (literally, like Optimus Prime), so I go with metal if I have to choose. But music is good all around, and I've always thought goth was cool. Hell, I've been The Crow (Eric Draven of Hangman's Joke fame) for Halloween.

 

Speaking of goth metal, my two fav goth metal bands! Unless Danzig counts, then he's in there too.

 

(Charon)

 

(For My Pain - supergroup with members of Nightwish and Charon)

 

And Gothic Girl (by The 69 Eyes) is a fun song:

 

 

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A somewhat relevant video that YouTube suggested to me today:

 

 

So many favorites here <3

 

Song list:

Spoiler

1979: Joy Division - Disorder
1979: Bauhaus - Bela Lugosi’s Dead
1980: The Birthday Party - Mr. Clarinet
1980: The Cure - A Forest
1981: Siouxsie and the Banshees - Spellbound
1981: Bauhaus - Lillies and Remains
1982: The Sisters of Mercy - Alice
1982: Christian Death - Romeo’s Distress
1983: Specimen - The Beauty of Poison
1984: Xmal Deutschland - Reigen
1985: Red Lorry Yellow Lorry - Talk About the Weather
1985: The Sisters of Mercy - Marian
1987: Fields of the Nephilim - Reanimator
1988: The Sisters of Mercy - Lucretia My Reflection
1989: The Cure - Love Song
1990: Alien Sex Fiend - Now I’m Feeling Zombified
1990: The Sisters of Mercy - Vision Thing
1991: The Rosetta Stone - Subterfuge
1992: Witching Hour - Ligea
1992: London After Midnight - Sacrifice
1993: Suspiria - Allegedly, Dancefloor Tragedy
1994: Paralysed Age - Bloodsucker
1995: The Mission - Neverland
1996: Vendemmian - Standing
1997: Suspiria - Awfully Sinister
1998: Kirlian Camera - Still Close
1999: Paradise Lost - Permanent Solution
2000: Cinema Strange - Greensward Grey
2001: The Mission - Evangeline
2002: The Frozen Autumn - Is Everything Real?
2003: Inkubus Sukkubus - Belladonna & Aconite
2004: The Birthday Massacre - Violet
2005: KMFDM - Juke Joint Jezebel
2006: She Wants Revenge - Tear You Apart
2007: November Novelet - Free
2008: Plastique Noir - Imaginary Walls
2009: Mode Moderne - Disco Ruff
2010: Merciful Nuns - The Darkness
2011: Angels of Liberty - Shadows Come From Light
2012: She Past Away - Belirdi Gece
2013: Disjecta Membra - Death By Discoteque
2014: This Cold Night - Eighties Goth Suicide Note
2015: Drab Majesty - The Foyer
2016: The Hearse - Empire Down
2017: Malefixio - Ritval

 

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I hear soo much of The Cure in all those songs, well most are a bit darker and some are a bit punk.

I dig Goth, but the metal in me tends to lean toward Disturbed or Dream theater, I guess I just need more structure.

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52 minutes ago, YukiRaven said:

So many favorites here <3

That's a competent playlist. Quite a bit of stuff there that I have heard as well. But it also misses some music that I think should have been included, like Tuxedomoon, maybe Nitzer ebb, SITD and some other things like human league ("being boiled" is killer).

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@Nine Inch Heels Agreed.  It's not my playlist, so I'm not sure what the person who put it together had in mind.  Maybe they just weren't into some of the others?  I'd have added some Clan of Xymox myself.

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My best guess is that they didn't want to include too many classics or so. If I listenend to these pretty much all day long, then I'd certainly want to avoid particular staples of the genre to keep things a bit more on the "fresh" side of the spectrum.

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