Guidelines on jumping and freelook

With source ports ability to implement jumping and freelook on games that weren't designed to have these features, I'd like to know if Freedoom has any guidelines for Phase 1 and 2 concerning these two features. More importantly if the maps on both freedom1 and freedoom2 WADS were all designed in conformance with these guidelines.

 

I'm a new player to Freedoom, having only started it today. I have been however trying to find this information on the official website, on the github project page and here on the forums, but can't seem to find an unambiguous statement on this matter. I'd like to configure my copies of crispy-doom and gzdoom to conform to the way the game is intended to be played.

Edited by rahtgaz

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Freelook usually doesn't have any major effect on gameplay no matter what you choose. The maps, being vanilla compatible (or at least limit removing), were definitely made without jumping in mind.

Edited by Spie812

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I agree that there ought to be some guidelines about this - at least around jumping. Freedoom levels are supposed to be vanilla / limit removing so they should be playable without the ability to jump, but they should also be "jump compatible" in a way that you shouldn't be able to access areas you're not supposed to be able to access, or get stuck in places. For example I can imagine jumping over a barrier and falling down a pit that would otherwise be inaccessible.

 

Do you have particular levels you've found to be problematic?

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Implicitly, if a wad is meant to be compatible with an engine or source port that doesn't support jumping, then you're not supposed to jump in this wad, even if it's also compatible with source ports that do support jumping.

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12 hours ago, Spie812 said:

Freelook usually doesn't have any major effect on gameplay no matter what you choose.

 

Note that horizontal look has been intentionally used on the design of quite a few maps on Doom I and II, where enemies can more easily hide from the player down on pits or elevated areas and avoid being turkey shot until they can attack the player. It is true that the engine limitations mean the player can still shoot them blind. But if these monsters happen to also be moving around, that is not a good strategy due to the high consumption of ammunition. Particularly on the higher difficulty levels we all like to play.

 

9 hours ago, scifista42 said:

Implicitly, if a wad is meant to be compatible with an engine or source port that doesn't support jumping, then you're not supposed to jump in this wad, even if it's also compatible with source ports that do support jumping.

 

Both source ports mentioned on Freedoom official website support jump and freelook and I couldn't find an official unambiguous statement anywhere that Freedoom was meant to be 100% vanilla compatible. Note also that to add to the confusion, the video chosen to demonstrate Freedoom under the "Compatible free replacement" heading on the About page, shows the player jumping on a few occasions.

 

However when actually playing the game, I noticed right on the first map how access to the top of a few crates was designed as to not require jumping. So, I am not sure if I can trust the rest of the game to be designed around the same rules.

Edited by rahtgaz

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Jumping is a part of doom now. People will use it whether they should or not. Exploring is fun. Freedoom does account for this. These examples are strictly vanilla, but also allow jumping or crouching to not break map too much. I think intentionally allowing jumping in some circumstances can enhances the game for jumpers, while also not completely breaking maps and being 100% vanilla.

 

In MAP02 a jumper could exit level in seconds, I made exit door require a yellow key. Player can still skip much of map, but at least cannot just jump to exit; a reasonable solution. E3M1 you can carefully jump to the ledges, nothing up there, but I made it look better from that point of view with almost no noticeable affect to players stuck on ground. MAP08 had bars over exit door, was lowered a bit so players could not crouch under them. E4M2 really takes jumping into account. There is a ledge that can be jumped to outside, there are ammo pickups dropped by the snipers. I made sure the slime pit on bottom was damaging, also cannot escape if player falls. Several other maps had inescapable slime/lava pits, made floor damaging for curious jumpers. The old MAP32 had windows that player can jump out of so that they are stuck standing in painful lava surrounded by dead player sprites, only jumpers can see the dead players while also dying themselves.

There are more examples I forgot.

 

A more advanced example does affect vanilla, but not negatively. E2M3 had a 48 unit high slime pit shortcut to a key, easily jumpable. I lowered pit a good distance to prevent jumping and added a staircase on opposite side. Jumpers are forced to fight through proper monster area. Area after adjustment feels better as part of the map, in vanilla or jump ports. Just some careful consideration when mapping for vanilla and allowing or disallowing jumps. 

 

Not all jumps are disallowed, nerfed, or death pits! There are a few areas I have thought about allowing more access to jumping. These do not break the main routing but allows more player flow. MAP01's first window is jumpable, vanilla players can SR-50 out window too. But on opposite side of water room, those windows are not jumpable. A slight adjustment can make them jumpable, allowing better flow for DM. That adjustment does not affect SP or vanilla at all, just enhances NS DMs. 

 

Edited by Catoptromancy

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Trying to account for both enabled and disabled jumping will take away time and creative freedom to make the maps better. If a certain amount of people can't be bothered with following the rules of the game, I'd say it's their funeral.

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2 hours ago, Da Werecat said:

Trying to account for both enabled and disabled jumping will take away time and creative freedom to make the maps better. If a certain amount of people can't be bothered with following the rules of the game, I'd say it's their funeral.

Mappers should not focus on jumping at all. Just make a good map. If parts are found later to be massively exploitable, then they can adjusted. All current maps were created like this, and very few needed actual fixes. This is trivial modifications to enhance playing experience on all ports. 

 

All my maps were removed over the years. Yet all my bug fixes and adjustments stayed, mainly. My efforts are worth more in slightly modifying maps, than in creating new maps. 

Edited by Catoptromancy
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