World Orifice

[Benjogami]

Finished my playthrough of MAP31 on HNTR. There was more than enough ammo, and there should be on UV as well, because UV mostly just has less megaspheres and small extra handful of ~90 viles. It took a lot less time than I thought it would:

 

 

 

The final RC and its small changelist have been added to the OP.

 

It's been uploaded to idgames and I'll edit the OP once it's available there. Thank you all for your interest and feedback!

[mArt1And00m3r11339]

On 11/12/2017 at 5:46 PM, Benjogami said:

Finished my playthrough of MAP31 on HNTR. There was more than enough ammo, and there should be on UV as well, because UV mostly just has less megaspheres and small extra handful of ~90 viles. It took a lot less time than I thought it would:

 

 

 

The final RC and its small changelist have been added to the OP.

 

It's been uploaded to idgames and I'll edit the OP once it's available there. Thank you all for your interest and feedback!

I wonder if you did that with save scumming.

[Benjogami]

1 hour ago, mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

I wonder if you did that with save scumming.

I did :D

[mArt1And00m3r11339]

2 hours ago, Benjogami said:

I did :D

I would not be surprised. The beginning is pretty simple but repetitive but at the end is where things get rough. I didn't have issues with the original Nostril Caverns level. The only thing that it required all along was patience (especially at the end where you have 100's of viles resurrecting the green cacodemons). It ended up taking me 5.5 hours to beat it. This level would take me more than half a day (12-14 hours in game, possibly longer) to beat it in one session. That is if only I were to do a deathless run on it.

[mArt1And00m3r11339]

I finally beat this level (level 1 version with save scumming). Kills (28,573/20,000), items (118/119), and secrets (100%).

[mArt1And00m3r11339]

I made a TBrown0065 version of this WAD.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1cJ0slb0ovo67UnKI5zqNtM6lcoAHN9Pm

[mArt1And00m3r11339]

@Benjogami I beat level 1 from this WAD. This time, quicker and deathless. Kills (27,448/20,000), items (118/119), and secrets (100%). Average = 112.13%. This would have 21,783 enemies including the lost souls.

 

orifice.zip

Edited April 27, 2019 by mArt1And00m3r11339

[Benjogami]

On 4/25/2019 at 4:15 PM, mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

I beat level 1 from this WAD. This time, quicker and deathless, non-TAS. Kills (27,448/20,000), items (118/119), and secrets (100%). Average = 112.13%. This would have 21,783 enemies including the lost souls.

Impressive! I read on your Youtube channel that you use slow motion to record demos. I just wanted to let you know that slow motion is considered TAS. But that's still an amazing feat. I'm interested to see your strategy for the big vile fight near the end. I'll watch it once I'm done watching your "Long Roads, No Turns" demo; I'm about 40% through watching that one.

[mArt1And00m3r11339]

2 hours ago, Benjogami said:

Impressive! I read on your Youtube channel that you use slow motion to record demos. I just wanted to let you know that slow motion is considered TAS. But that's still an amazing feat. I'm interested to see your strategy for the big vile fight near the end. I'll watch it once I'm done watching your "Long Roads, No Turns" demo; I'm about 40% through watching that one.

Here is the syntax that I use for recording demos:

DoomEngine -iwad IWAD -file PWAD -complevel 17 -warp MAP## -record demoname -skill 4

It is non-TAS. I didn't add "slowmotion" or anything along the lines in the .bat file and I use -complevel 17. TAS would be something like -complevel 6. It may also follow the following syntax:
DoomEngine -iwad PWAD -file PWAD -warp MAP## -record DemoName

Edited April 27, 2019 by mArt1And00m3r11339

[Ancalagon]

TAS also is pressing the slow down key during recording, this is not necesarily in the command line, also you should use complevel 9 as that's boom compatibility.

[mArt1And00m3r11339]

19 minutes ago, Ancalagon said:

TAS also is pressing the slow down key during recording, this is not necesarily in the command line, also you should use complevel 9 as that's boom compatibility.

Whether it is TAS or not, I still say that it is entertaining to watch. The audience wouldn't actually know the difference between the demos alone. It could be that the player may have very fast reflexes so they may not know for certain.

[mArt1And00m3r11339]

3 hours ago, Benjogami said:

Impressive! I read on your Youtube channel that you use slow motion to record demos. I just wanted to let you know that slow motion is considered TAS. But that's still an amazing feat. I'm interested to see your strategy for the big vile fight near the end. I'll watch it once I'm done watching your "Long Roads, No Turns" demo; I'm about 40% through watching that one.

As far as dealing with the arch-viles is concerned, I just take out 1 or 2 at a time. If several of them are alert simultaneously along with the cyberdemons then I let the cybers infight with the viles in conjunction with camping so that I don't get boxed in or anything bad.

[Ancalagon]

4 hours ago, mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

The audience wouldn't actually know the difference between the demos alone. It could be that the player may have very fast reflexes so they may not know for certain.

There is a very big difference between a demo where the player actually did what's in the demo and a tas where anything goes (but you can specify what features were used), you should always tell the people what they are watching.

[mArt1And00m3r11339]

54 minutes ago, Ancalagon said:

There is a very big difference between a demo where the player actually did what's in the demo and a tas where anything goes (but you can specify what features were used), you should always tell the people what they are watching.

How can others tell though? Someone may have super fast reflexes and may do something the regular way as rapidly as someone who does it the TAS way. That can happen. 

[Nine Inch Heels]

1 hour ago, mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

How can others tell though?

the point isn't whether or not your audience can tell, the point is what's being honest with your viewers or what isn't. And not disclosing that you use any sort of tas-features when you "beat" these maps is dishonest as far as I'm concerned. Nobody is really interested in what you could do if your reaction time was lower than a millisecond, what people are interested in is what you can do under normal circumstances, because that's what shows how skilled you actually are.

[GarrettChan]

6 hours ago, Ancalagon said:

There is a very big difference between a demo where the player actually did what's in the demo and a tas where anything goes (but you can specify what features were used), you should always tell the people what they are watching.

Oh god, I'm glad that I read this, or I maybe invested my time in watching something that I don't want.

[loveless]

13 hours ago, mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

Whether it is TAS or not, I still say that it is entertaining to watch. The audience wouldn't actually know the difference between the demos alone. It could be that the player may have very fast reflexes so they may not know for certain.

 

  

That's also incredibly misleading and dishonest to the viewer if they're expecting someone to play a map without any assistance, tool, or cheat.

[mArt1And00m3r11339]

21 minutes ago, loveless said:

 

  

That's also incredibly misleading and dishonest to the viewer if they're expecting someone to play a map without any assistance, tool, or cheat.

Say what you want because I am not offended.

[loveless]

10 minutes ago, mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

Say what you want because I am not offended.

  

I honestly don't care if you're offended or not.  I was surprised to find out that you don't actually play and finish these maps, in these videos, in real time.  I have made several TAS demos myself and have never uploaded or shared with the impression of them being non-TAS.  Now I know that Tim Brown videos are TAS, by his own admission, and that is good enough for me.

[mArt1And00m3r11339]

28 minutes ago, loveless said:

  

I honestly don't care if you're offended or not.  I was surprised to find out that you don't actually play and finish these maps, in these videos, in real time.  I have made several TAS demos myself and have never uploaded or shared with the impression of them being non-TAS.  Now I know that Tim Brown videos are TAS, by his own admission, and that is good enough for me.

Maybe when it comes to difficult maps. But even if they are TAS, they are still entertaining to watch.

Edited April 27, 2019 by mArt1And00m3r11339

[Looper]

1 hour ago, mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

Maybe when it comes to difficult maps. But even if they are TAS, they are still entertaining to watch.

They are not entertaining at all if it is not the actual skill. You are fooling audience into thinking that you have some amazing skills. I've seen some old casual NES deathless playthroughs, and I was like "wow, amazing. dude has some serious skills. I wanna watch how he tackles everything with SKILL". Then after watching the few extremely difficult bosses/situations of the game, it made me wonder: what the fuck is this noob doing? Found out it was save/load scummed casual playthrough and I have never watched any of those casual runs after that because I just assume they do not represent anything. They are just piece of shit TAS runs.

 

Just my opinion though.

[Nine Inch Heels]

1 hour ago, mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

But even if they are TAS, they are still entertaining to watch.

I am entirely fine with making "tases" for entertainment purposes, and if you have fun doing that, by all means have fun in any way you like. However, if you don't tell viewers that your videos show tased runs instead of "normal ones", you're giving away the impression that you can actually do this stuff under normal circumstances, when in reality you perhaps cannot and actually didn't.

Never once when you linked a video here on doomworld have you stated that the run that's being shown is tased, all you do is your usual "I beat your map", and then there's a video. I really don't care how entertaining the run is if you're hiding the fact that it's tased, because I'm not being told how that run came to be, and that's what the problem is.

 

All it takes to be upfront and fair towards your viewers is a disclaimer that says it's a tased run, meant only to show off the map on UV for entertainment purposes, and nobody would actually criticize you for that. It really is that simple.

[Kira]

@mArt1And00m3r11339 For your information, I started watching your runs when it looked like they did stop being so long and I was genuinely thinking "this guy is rusty sometimes but he is sure improving lately". And now this discussion makes me feel like a dumbass really.

 

It costs you nothing to add a "[TAS]" before the title of your videos, and saying "slowmo used while recording" in your descriptions/posts. People can still enjoy the run for what it is and those who are serious about that whole "beating slaughtermaps" thing aren't fooled.

 

I'm sure there is no ill-intent here so it is not a day for me to take out the pitchfork, but honestly, consider being transparent about this. Otherwise it's just going to escalate as it goes on, and you are going to be mad and sad and you'll punch your desk and your phalanges will hurt. Or idk, something not cool.

 

Edit: looks like you started adding "[TAS]" to your videos? I appreciate your willingness to comply with this if so.

Edited April 27, 2019 by Kira

[mArt1And00m3r11339]

18 minutes ago, Kira said:

@mArt1And00m3r11339 For your information, I started watching your runs when it looked like they did stop being so long and I was genuinely thinking "this guy is rusty sometimes but he is sure improving lately". And now this discussion makes me feel like a dumbass really.

 

It costs you nothing to add a "[TAS]" before the title of your videos, and saying "slowmo used while recording" in your descriptions/posts. People can still enjoy the run for what it is and those who are serious about that whole "beating slaughtermaps" thing aren't fooled.

 

I'm sure there is no ill-intent here so it is not a day for me to take out the pitchfork, but honestly, consider being transparent about this. Otherwise it's just going to escalate as it goes on, and you are going to be mad and sad and you'll punch your desk and your phalanges will hurt. Or idk, something not cool.

I am currently updating the title of the videos to tell people that they are TAS.

[Kira]

27 minutes ago, mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

I am currently updating the title of the videos to tell people that they are TAS.

That's my boy :muscle_arm_emoji:

[mArt1And00m3r11339]

1 minute ago, Kira said:

That's my boy :muscle_arm_emoji:

After all, I don't see anything wrong with doing a TAS. It's better to do it non-TAS but it's whatever.

[Ancalagon]

3 minutes ago, mArt1And00m3r11339 said:

After all, I don't see anything wrong with doing a TAS. It's better to do it non-TAS but it's whatever.

It's certainly not whatever, doing these maps not tas takes effort, you know.

[mArt1And00m3r11339]

3 minutes ago, Ancalagon said:

It's certainly not whatever, doing these maps not tas takes effort, you know.

I had more fun doing it anyways.

[mArt1And00m3r11339]

1 hour ago, Kira said:

@mArt1And00m3r11339 For your information, I started watching your runs when it looked like they did stop being so long and I was genuinely thinking "this guy is rusty sometimes but he is sure improving lately". And now this discussion makes me feel like a dumbass really.

 

It costs you nothing to add a "[TAS]" before the title of your videos, and saying "slowmo used while recording" in your descriptions/posts. People can still enjoy the run for what it is and those who are serious about that whole "beating slaughtermaps" thing aren't fooled.

 

I'm sure there is no ill-intent here so it is not a day for me to take out the pitchfork, but honestly, consider being transparent about this. Otherwise it's just going to escalate as it goes on, and you are going to be mad and sad and you'll punch your desk and your phalanges will hurt. Or idk, something not cool.

 

Edit: looks like you started adding "[TAS]" to your videos? I appreciate your willingness to comply with this if so.

Look at this here:

 

[mArt1And00m3r11339]

1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

I am entirely fine with making "tases" for entertainment purposes, and if you have fun doing that, by all means have fun in any way you like. However, if you don't tell viewers that your videos show tased runs instead of "normal ones", you're giving away the impression that you can actually do this stuff under normal circumstances, when in reality you perhaps cannot and actually didn't.

Never once when you linked a video here on doomworld have you stated that the run that's being shown is tased, all you do is your usual "I beat your map", and then there's a video. I really don't care how entertaining the run is if you're hiding the fact that it's tased, because I'm not being told how that run came to be, and that's what the problem is.

 

All it takes to be upfront and fair towards your viewers is a disclaimer that says it's a tased run, meant only to show off the map on UV for entertainment purposes, and nobody would actually criticize you for that. It really is that simple.

Check this thread again.