UnNecessary aka UnAligned 2 (Done for real!)

[SleepyVelvet]

FDAs for maps 1-11: noisy_unnec11.zip

prboom-plus.exe -file .\unnec11.wad -warp X -record noisy_unnecX.lmp -complevel 2

 

keep it up.

 

edit: btw there were a couple bugs.  map10 seemed broken completely; i might have seen a couple missing textures and other stuff too.

[anotak]

i played it twice, once in zdoom 2.8.1 with mouselook, once in EE (drdteam nightly build) without mouselook. i played both continuous since it seems like you are implying that's the intended method (?).

 

brief thoughts per map

MAP01 - this is cool, but i dont think this should be MAP01. since MAP01 has no intermission screen before, a player might not know the gimmick and then it just seems strangely flat/underdetailed or something. also it's just not as overtly memorable gameplay-wise or striking as the opening maps of unalign's episodes, or map01 of killed.wad. would be a neat MAP02 maybe. idk if this format lets you reorder things though.

 

MAP02 - this is cool and also would probably work better as a MAP01. i found a minor "bug", you can trigger the blue key line without picking up the blue key. i think this is fine and much better than the opposite i guess

 

MAP03 - this is a very strong map. the first two are merely cool but i really really like this one. good secret in the 3 crusher + cage room too, i always like optional paths as secrets. it's breakable with mouselook but i didn't abuse that. i'm not sure what you can do about that, but maybe there's something? i died in the first room, i thought it was great. i also head a death in the pillar / lift crusher room.

 

MAP04 - i think this is the weakest map i've ever played from you. i didn't "get" any sense of there being a main idea to the level, and it was too symmetrical to know where i was going. didn't feel like i was exploring, or figuring anything out. additionally, the combat was incredibly easy, but there were so many enemies that it was just tedious. i think i got hit once in the whole map the first time i played it.

 

MAP05 - this map is really good. i got kind of lost on where to go next after pulling the switch that lowers the lifts on the south end of the map on my first playthrough. otherwise this map is really cool. had a death here bc i misjudged a rev rocket. the chaingun secret seems required if you were to pistol start, but i guess thats intentional

 

MAP06 - i really like this one too. i couldnt figure out the lava puzzle though, i see it now reloading with iddqd and iddt though. a minor complaint about the brown liquid platforms puzzle: i kept pulling the wrong switch and screwing things up. somehow right switch = "move upward" and left switch = "move downward" in my brain. maybe you could align the raising switch a few pixels higher or something to visually indicate what the switch does?

 

MAP07 - ive been looking forward to what you would do with this slot for a while, and you did not disappoint! minor thing: i noticed a missing lower texture when the barons show up. also, um, the nukage doesnt appear to hurt? speaking of that: the radsuit path has a way to fall and get stuck permanently after you raise the bridge and you fall off the left side of it.

 

MAP08 - this was really cool, but also really easy. actually i wonder if this could be a cool MAP01 with some slight changes w consideration for continuous play (?). actually idk i didnt play these to get 100% tho, i guess that playstyle might mess that up.

 

MAP09 - i died a lot on this map, i think it's kryptonite to my playstyle. i enjoyed it a lot and i think i will remember this for years to come.

 

MAP10 - i liked this one, maybe not as much as the surrounding stuff, but it was still real good. i did like how it reminded me a lot of the original refueling base

 

MAP11 - wow i was just thinking of the other day how if i ever complete another set of maps, i really do want to make sure there's "wires" leading away from switches to what they do. i think this could work really well as a MAP01 too

[SleepyVelvet]

noisy_unnec10try2.zip  here's another try at map10.  Still looks like a couple things are broken, but i guess it's just a secret. 

 

the first switch is unintuitive, which doesn't combo with the broken switch.  it just makes the map look broken.  also, a spider decided to fall from the ceiling onto my desk in the middle of the run and spooked me; it ran away and i'm going to spend all night finding it in vain now.  I killed about 50 of those things this year but apparently there's still another alive late into the year.  Every time my beard touches my neck I freak out cuz it might be a spider. fuck spiders.  I like the ones that use webs that just sit in the corner of rooms, but these ones that crawl around for no reason.  wtf is the point of them even.  Sometimes I wish i had spider vision so i could see where spiders were vividly, like the detect person spell in Elder Scrolls; but then I realize that might be a bad idea and I would probably see things I wish I didn't.  I guess no sleep tonight, bummer.

[scwiba]

Thank you both for the feedback. It's very helpful in polishing things up.

 

8 hours ago, anotak said:

i played it twice, once in zdoom 2.8.1 with mouselook, once in EE (drdteam nightly build) without mouselook. i played both continuous since it seems like you are implying that's the intended method (?).

It's not, actually! Sorry if I made it sound that way. All these maps are intended to be played from a pistol start, it's just much more important on certain ones, so in those cases I threw in a death exit to clean the slate.

 

8 hours ago, anotak said:

MAP01 - this is cool, but i dont think this should be MAP01.

I see where you're coming from. If I move the map, though, I'd have to change the name and that makes me sad. I figured it was so short that it wouldn't matter too much how flat it was.

 

8 hours ago, anotak said:

MAP06 - ... i kept pulling the wrong switch and screwing things up. somehow right switch = "move upward" and left switch = "move downward" in my brain. maybe you could align the raising switch a few pixels higher or something to visually indicate what the switch does? 

I'll think on this one.

 

8 hours ago, anotak said:

MAP07 - ... also, um, the nukage doesnt appear to hurt?

Hahahaha, whoops. Yeah, that's one of the things that's really easy to miss when you're trying to pump one of these out a day, you're super tired from work, and you're stressing out because your girlfriend is complaining that you aren't spending enough time with her.

 

10 hours ago, NoisyVelvet said:

FDAs for maps 1-11: noisy_unnec11.zip

 

keep it up.

 

edit: btw there were a couple bugs.  map10 seemed broken completely; i might have seen a couple missing textures and other stuff too.

You have a talent for breaking my maps, Noisy. I liked your shortcut in 03, but I didn't realize you could press the exit switch through the walls in 04. I'll work on that one. There's also a door that's not opening in 05 which I didn't realize until I watched these. So if anyone thought 05 seemed broken... well, it was!

 

10 is kind of a mess, yeah. I've fixed that broken switch, though I'm not sure what to do to make the shootable switch more obvious. And was that a visplane overflow that ended the demo? I thought I got rid of all of those :[

[SleepyVelvet]

nah, no visplane overflow,  i was in prboom.  my first try of map10 was me quitting cuz i couldn't find where to go.  i figured out that the switch was shootable in second playthrough tho.

 

fun stuff, keep it up.

[scwiba]

Two new maps today! Both of them are pretty dumb and short, but we're makin' progress! I jumped forward again and finished 15, Rocket Defense Grid, which includes a secret exit to 31, Space Race. Keep in mind that 13 and 14 are still unfinished, so don't go warpin' carelessly.

 

[scwiba]

Big update! Lots of minor tweaks to the previous maps here, as well as three new ones:

 

Map13: Barrelville

Spoiler

 

Map14: Ye Olde Citye

Spoiler

 

And Map16: In the Trenches

Spoiler

 

We're past the halfway point now! Although I've only got 11 days left to finish 15 maps, so... yikes.

[scwiba]

Still chipping away at this sucker, even if I'm consistently falling further behind. At this point I need to get two maps finished per day to make it to 32. Oh gosh the stress is mounting.

 

Just updated the link with two new maps! Map17: Stucco on the Styx-o, and 19: Monster Roulette. Next upload will be the rest of the city episode, for those of you holding off on playing until the sky changes again!

[anotak]

look forward to it! but at the same time, it's okay if you don't make the deadline, take care of yourself. that's much more important!

[scwiba]

Oh boy! Who's ready for some trash? We've got three new maps and a complete city episode! Here's the new stuff in this upload:

 

Map18: Tower 1024

Map20: The Hunt For Red Octeleporters

Map32: God Save the Keen

 

So that leaves us with ten maps left to do in three days.................

 

....great.

[scwiba]

Okay, I've switched gears for the final stretch. No more mid-sized or longer maps. This last episode is going to have to be all ultra-tight concept maps. Good news is I've already got 21-23 mostly finished, but I'm kind of working on everything at once, so I'm going to hold off on uploads until the whole thing's done.

 

Check back the morning of December 1st, buds! I promise to be extremely tired, caffeinated, and loopy -- but I will have 32 maps for you!

[Jimmy]

Don't burn out!

[scwiba]

As promised... it's 4:30 in the morning, my whole body hurts, and gridlines are burnt into my retinas. I'm just going to drop this here without much comment: 32 maps complete (rushed, terrible, and barely tested)! The only warning I have is that 26 is genuinely bad. It seemed like a cool concept but was incredibly frustrating to implement and is even worse to play. Not sure what I'll do with that one.

 

Bugfixing and polishing to come. I'll take new screenshots and update the OP after I've got some sleep. Good night, y'all. I'm dead.

Edited December 1, 2017 by Ryath

[SleepyVelvet]

fda dump noisy_unnecb1.zip (prboom-plus complevel 2); I accidently overwrote map25's playthrough but the rest is there.

 

These were better than i thought they'd be, not that I was expecting them to be bad or anything.  I was expecting that you'd taper out of ideas and rely on rehashing old concepts in different ways, but the opposite happened and there's a good amount of fresh stuff here. 

 

A lot of variety here, so people will probably find some maps they like and some they like less; kinda like UnAligned but generally better quality imo.

 

One note (spoiler:)

Map 20 is a long-as-fuck map; came totally out of left field in a mapset of small gimmick maps.  It took a long ass time to beat it.  Parts of it were kinda tedious, but it grew on me towards towards the end.  I like platforming a lot

 

My favorite maps were 13 and 14 and the platforming puzzle of 15 (haven't found all secrets yet though, i'm gonna go back later to see if I can find them all)

 

Keep Map26 because it is cool and not too long.  Also, it fits in fine because this megawad is pretty heavy on variety already, like a buffet of different styles and concepts.  If a player gets impatient then they can just skip it.

 

Good job, these were a treat, and I look forward to next year's "UnSomething" sequel.

[Jimmy]

The absolute madman.

 

I'm playing this soon, don't you worry.

[scwiba]

I've added some screenshots from the latter half of the WAD to that OP post, for anyone who's curious before giving it a download! Expect an updated version in a week or two.

 

On 12/1/2017 at 0:22 PM, Jimmy said:

The absolute madman.

 

I'm playing this soon, don't you worry.

 

Lookin' forward to it, Jimmy!

 

On 12/1/2017 at 0:07 PM, NoisyVelvet said:

fda dump noisy_unnecb1.zip (prboom-plus complevel 2); I accidently overwrote map25's playthrough but the rest is there.

 

A lot of variety here, so people will probably find some maps they like and some they like less; kinda like UnAligned but generally better quality imo.

 

Already working on some tweaks and fixes based on these FDAs. Thank you!

 

And thanks for the compliment! My feeling overall was that this one didn't come out as well as UnAligned... but then again I honestly like UnAligned even more than Absolutely Killed, and I don't think anyone would agree with me on that.

 

On 12/1/2017 at 0:07 PM, NoisyVelvet said:

I look forward to next year's "UnSomething" sequel.

 

But what IWAD will it be for?!??!!

[Bryan T]

So, what is the proper name of this wad?  I uploaded a video of it, what name should I use?  Good wad so far.  Despite being speedmaps some of these are confusing.

[scwiba]

1 hour ago, Rowsol said:

So, what is the proper name of this wad?  I uploaded a video of it, what name should I use?  Good wad so far.  Despite being speedmaps some of these are confusing.

The full title is "UnNecessary: 30 Maps, 32 Days, Zero Texture Alignment; or, UnAligned 2: A WAD No One Asked For" but I'll also accept just "UnNecessary."

[anotak]

have the "episode 2" maps from unnec22.wad changed much

 

i have some feedback that i havent bothered to write up yet but maybe i should replay them first?

[anotak]

i probably shouldve written this stuff when the first experience was fresher in my memory, just been kinda busy / feeling bad

i played on eternity engine with no mouselook and pistol start

MAP12: cool, nice twist on a classic concept

MAP13: enjoyed this. ive been honestly very curious what you would do with city maps

MAP14: didn't like this much, felt kind of aimless and lacking in any unique identity. there's nothing notably bad about it, it's just, sort of bland. thought the fireplace was cool though.

MAP15: i enjoyed the idea behind this map a *lot* but it's way too easy. with the revenants being in the center of the same arena mostly, they wont be able to hit you ever even if there was no cover at all. i dont think i got hit at all. that said, it's very memorable. took me a while to find the secret exit. btw theres HOMs at ground level at the edges of the map.

MAP31: good secret map. not much to say other than that

MAP32: i didn't expect a wolf map but as soon as i saw the title i was hype. this is really good

MAP16: this is one of my favorite maps i've played in a while. great stuff.

MAP17: this is very cool and very doom 2. the geometry is very simple but i actually rly was impressed at how good this level looks

MAP18: this is good, i dont have much to say about it though. i think maybe im starting to get bored of the 1024 thing even though i did one myself earlier this year? idk. but this level is good anyway

MAP19: love that flesh thing in the sky. reminds me of half life a little. enjoyed this map a lot.

MAP20: this was cool, very enjoyable. one minor suggestion: make the switches themselves lower when you pull them. this way it would be easier to keep track of which directions the player has explored.

[scwiba]

2 hours ago, anotak said:

have the "episode 2" maps from unnec22.wad changed much

Only minor tweaks. I wouldn't say it's worth replaying.

 

1 hour ago, anotak said:

MAP20: this was cool, very enjoyable. one minor suggestion: make the switches themselves lower when you pull them. this way it would be easier to keep track of which directions the player has explored

Thanks for the feedback! And that bit in particular is a great idea. I'm implementing it now.

[SleepyVelvet]

I just found out how to get to the secret exit on map15.  There are a couple redundant secrets, as well as two impossible secret sectors unless you line-def skip.

[scwiba]

4 minutes ago, NoisyVelvet said:

I just found out how to get to the secret exit on map15.  There are a couple redundant secrets, as well as two impossible secret sectors unless you line-def skip.

Yep! I fixed that in the version that'll be ready in a few days. (It's really annoying in DB2 how sectors inherit tags and effects when they're created. And also how linedefs get new alignments when you split them, which forces me to go back over the whole map at the end and unalign everything again.)

[anotak]

played on eternity engine with no mouselook and pistol start

 

 

MAP21: was waiting for the inevitable archvile jump map!! you delivered :D

MAP22: cool and good, not much to say

MAP23: similar

MAP24: this map felt kind of filler-ish. i had a bug the first time i played this map where i picked up the rocket launcher and dropped into a hole that was inescapable. on the 2nd playthrough of the map, by the time i got to the hole, it had raised just fine. i can look in doom builder maybe to tell you what tag number if you need.

MAP25: enjoyed this map, not much to say

 

MAP26: okay so the concept of this map is really legitimately cool but the execution has some problems. the 2nd set of barrels (the first with the rev), it's way too finnicky to get the revs to shoot an actually homing rocket and get over there. this 1 single part was really very difficult and tedious in a frustrating way in an unintended-feeling way. it's actually significantly harder for me than the 3rd set of barrels on the same map. the revs refuse to shoot for longass periods of time, then they end up shooting a non-homing rocket half the time. other times they shoot and just hit each other, or hit the "intake" side of the path. the angle means that i cant see the smoke behind the rocket easily. so other times i would get them to shoot the correct thing and i got so used to it just not working that i assumed it would fail and then didnt react to it being a correct rocket. other times i reacted and then doomguy got stuck on the very northeast corner of the invisible wall trying to get in position.

 

possible solutions to help with all this:

1) raise the revenants from the player in order to make the smoke more visible because the rev rocket is coming toward the player and lowering while the smoke is rising

2) put more revs? unsure if this would help or what

3) maybe make 2 or 3 visible height barrels to make the "hitbox" the player has to target less finnicky

4) remove part of invis wall on the northeast side of the "intake" so that rockets shot from the left side of the rev area wont get clipped by it as easily

5) cut off a triangular chunk from the outer curve on the northeast side near the target barrel so that the player doesnt get stuck

6) the raised floor makes it difficult to tell where the invisible walls are. put the red lines on the ceiling as well to help be able to direct the rocket visually (i think this is maybe the most important thing actually ?). like this is one of the huge reasons the 3rd set of barrels is way easier, you can more easily visually identify whats going on w the trajectory easier

7) switch the 3rd and 2nd set of barrels to match the difficulty

 

MAP27: this was neat. i had to go back after the fact to see what the penalty for the "wrong" choice was, out of curiosity. at least i think i did it right the first time. is it just an archvile for each wrong one?

 

MAP28: dont have much useful feedback other than infighting makes this map especially easy

 

MAP29: not sure i "get" this map, feels weirdly anticlimactic for this slot

 

MAP30: its getting late so i havent had a chance to actually finish it but it was kind of annoying when the icon refused to kill one of the cybies, not really sure if there's another way around or something i was missing. the idea is cool tho
 

 

 

 

edit: im not really sure why the post editor is like, putting six billion newlines in for when i just hit enter once

[scwiba]

 

Quote

MAP24: this map felt kind of filler-ish. i had a bug the first time i played this map where i picked up the rocket launcher and dropped into a hole that was inescapable. on the 2nd playthrough of the map, by the time i got to the hole, it had raised just fine. i can look in doom builder maybe to tell you what tag number if you need.

That would be great if you could take a look in DB. I'm not sure what hole you mean.

 

On 12/5/2017 at 2:39 AM, anotak said:

MAP26: ... possible solutions to help with all this:

Spoiler

1) raise the revenants from the player in order to make the smoke more visible because the rev rocket is coming toward the player and lowering while the smoke is rising

2) put more revs? unsure if this would help or what

3) maybe make 2 or 3 visible height barrels to make the "hitbox" the player has to target less finnicky

4) remove part of invis wall on the northeast side of the "intake" so that rockets shot from the left side of the rev area wont get clipped by it as easily

5) cut off a triangular chunk from the outer curve on the northeast side near the target barrel so that the player doesnt get stuck

6) the raised floor makes it difficult to tell where the invisible walls are. put the red lines on the ceiling as well to help be able to direct the rocket visually (i think this is maybe the most important thing actually ?). like this is one of the huge reasons the 3rd set of barrels is way easier, you can more easily visually identify whats going on w the trajectory easier

7) switch the 3rd and 2nd set of barrels to match the difficulty

 

1,3,4) I'll look into those.

 

5) Spot on. Already made that change in the current build.

 

6) I don't think there's any way to do that with the way the invisible walls work right now, but that comment made me realize I could probably do away with most of the raised area, leaving just the bit that prevents you from entering.

 

7) I'm hesitant on this one. Any time I tested the map I found the 2nd barrel only took a couple tries and the 3rd one took at least a dozen. Can anyone else comment on this? @NoisyVelvet?

 

Quote

MAP27: this was neat. i had to go back after the fact to see what the penalty for the "wrong" choice was, out of curiosity. at least i think i did it right the first time. is it just an archvile for each wrong one?

Yeah, you're punished with an arch-vile and likely some resurrected enemies. I wanted you to be able to get one or two wrong and still survive.

 

Quote

MAP29: not sure i "get" this map, feels weirdly anticlimactic for this slot

The idea was to force you to use a rocket launcher in an arena so small you can barely avoid the splash damage. Was it anticlimactic in difficulty or just concept? It seems like one of the harder maps in the WAD for most people I've watched play it.

 

Quote

MAP30: its getting late so i havent had a chance to actually finish it but it was kind of annoying when the icon refused to kill one of the cybies, not really sure if there's another way around or something i was missing. the idea is cool tho

Yeah, that can happen. I figure randomness is often a factor in Map30s, so I was willing to let it slide.

 

Edited December 7, 2017 by Ryath

[SleepyVelvet]

I thought the last trial was the hardest, but I can see an argument for the middle one being hard.  The second one is smaller and more easily conveys what you are trying to do i think.  A lot of the tedium from the last one is because you have to be so far away, and there's invisible walls and such preventing them from firing at you in the first place.  The second one involved getting the right curvature as you whip around the side, but it was easier to get them to fire at you.  just i.m.o.

 

 

[anotak]

14 hours ago, Ryath said:

 

That would be great if you could take a look in DB. I'm not sure what hole you mean.

 

1,3,4) I'll look into those.

 

5) Spot on. Already made that change in the current build.

 

6) I don't think there's any way to do that with the way the invisible walls work right now, but that comment made me realize I could probably do away with most of the raised area, leaving just the bit that prevents you from entering.

 

7) I'm hesitant on this one. Any time I tested the map I found the 2nd barrel only took a couple tries and the 3rd one took at least a dozen. Can anyone else comment on this? @NoisyVelvet?

 

Yeah, you're punished with an arch-vile and likely some resurrected enemies. I wanted you to be able to get one or two wrong and still survive.

 

The idea was to force you to use a rocket launcher in an arena so small you can barely avoid the splash damage. Was it anticlimactic in difficult or just concept? It seems like one of the harder maps in the WAD for most people I've watched play it.

 

Yeah, that can happen. I figure randomness is often a factor in Map30s, so I was willing to let it slide.

 

MAP24:

been messing around in DBX and loading it and running through with no monsters trying to replicate the original issue, can't seem to. however, i did get this to happen, which wasnt the one i had issues with

which is tag 5 not raising i guess? not really sure. i did this by going kind of "around" after picking up the rocket launcher. i made it happen twice but i cant get it to happen again

i cant seem to figure out how i caused the original problem i reported in my first post about it. i THINK but i'm not sure that originally somehow the sector with the rocket launcher was 1 iteration higher than it normally is so i went and picked up the rocket launcher from behind somehow or something

i did just manage to trap myself in the area with the green armor where the first floor raises though

 

MAP27:

the first time i did the 2nd barrel, it took me 20+ minutes, the 2nd time, 10 minutes.

ive done the 3rd barrel one 3 times, and it took me only like 2-3 tries (noclipped to it once, which is why i got 1 more attempt).

 

MAP29:

both tbh? I beat it really easily and just was sort of confused?

 

MAP30:

okay I beat it, it was enjoyable!

[scwiba]

Happy Thursday! Guess what time it is! New beta time!

 

Aside from fixing some of the issues y'all have pointed out, the main focus on this version was filling out the secrets. There are new secrets in EVERY map. I still haven't addressed difficulty settings or multiplayer starts, but those are next on the agenda. Check the OP for a complete list of changes.

 

PS: I've made some significant changes to Map26 in the hopes of making it less frustrating. (You can thank Noisy for me not cutting it altogether.) The second barrel barrier is pretty easy now by my estimation, and the third one includes a way of cheating it if you find the secrets. But let me know what you think.

[anotak]

noticed an odd thing: zdoom reports 2 secrets on MAP01, as far as I can tell even with DBX, I only see 1?

[scwiba]

New version is up just in time for Doom's birthday! This is essentially feature-complete, with all difficulty settings, co-op starts, and demos in place.

 

I was going to call it a release candidate, but I'm still missing a title screen (in the works!) and for some reason the second demo doesn't work correctly. It runs fine if you play it as its own thing, but once I included it in the WAD it started to desync. Anyone know what's up with that?

 

Hopefully one more round of testing and then this big mess of a WAD will be behind me! Speaking of which, where're my playtester Usual Suspects? Paging @Voltcom9, @Albertoni, and @bzzrak. Please report to the front desk.

 

On 12/7/2017 at 1:53 PM, anotak said:

noticed an odd thing: zdoom reports 2 secrets on MAP01, as far as I can tell even with DBX, I only see 1?

You sure you were checking the right version of the WAD in DBX? I opened it in ZDoom, DB2, and DBX and they all say two secrets.