UnNecessary aka UnAligned 2 (Done for real!)

[anotak]

wait

are there actually 2 secrets or 1?

 

also i havent checked the demo yet but does it involve a revenant? revs can desync demos iirc

[Albertoni]

2 hours ago, Ryath said:

Hopefully one more round of testing and then this big mess of a WAD will be behind me! Speaking of which, where're my playtester Usual Suspects? Paging @Voltcom9, @Albertoni, and @bzzrak. Please report to the front desk.

Got a full-time job, time for enjoying myself severely cut down on.

Still, sure, I can probably arrange an evening or two for this... Oh, wait, megawad, holy jeeziz beeziz.

 

I'll do my best, really, but being a sane and healthy person takes priority. And the way my job is set up is taking away most of my sanity away.

Anyway, yeah sure, I'll give this a playthrough as soon as possible. But with like 2, maybe 3 hours free per evening, and me having bought The Witcher 3 recently... I might be done with this by the end of the year. Hope that's good enough.

 

I just expect you to return the favor when I release my next project. Don't worry, it won't be more than a pair of maps, not counting the intro map. :)

[scwiba]

13 hours ago, anotak said:

wait

are there actually 2 secrets or 1?

 

also i havent checked the demo yet but does it involve a revenant? revs can desync demos iirc

There was one secret in Beta 1 and now two after Beta 2.

 

And yeah, it involves revenants... I don't really understand why the demo would work just fine when played outside the WAD though. Weird.

 

12 hours ago, Albertoni said:

Got a full-time job, time for enjoying myself severely cut down on.

Still, sure, I can probably arrange an evening or two for this... Oh, wait, megawad, holy jeeziz beeziz.

Hey Albertoni! Real life takes precedence over my dumb maps. I totally understand if you don't have the time. Don't worry!

[Altazimuth]

@Ryath This is a vanilla bug. https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Revenant_tracers_desync_internal_demos

Basically due to a timing bug, the DEMO lumps desync, because the gametic that is important for the Revenant's rocket isn't relative to when the demo starts.

 

EDIT: dew says that you can pad your demos such that the next one starts on a properly "aligned" tic. You should only need to pad between 1-3 tics per demo (if and only if the next demo desyncs, otherwise don't pad), as the tracing shot only traces on tics that are multiples of 4.

[anotak]

1 hour ago, Ryath said:

And yeah, it involves revenants... I don't really understand why the demo would work just fine when played outside the WAD though. Weird.

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Revenant_tracers_desync_internal_demos

 

found it

i remembered the BTSX people ran into this problem, so i asked around, altazimuth gave me the link

it's fixed in Boom and newer but for true vanilla compatability you cant have revs firing in your demo

 

edit:

dew says

[11:44 AM]dewsome:to fix it in vanilla you gotta pad your demos at the end so the next one starts properly "aligned" (hue hue)
[11:45 AM]dewsome:it's just inserting empty tics before the end byte
[11:45 AM]dewsome:that's how i dealt with the btsx desync

so it's possible to fix i suppose

has to start on a multiple of 4

 

edit edit:

lol double post by 2 diff ppl

Edited December 11, 2017 by anotak

[scwiba]

55 minutes ago, anotak said:

edit:

dew says

[11:44 AM]dewsome:to fix it in vanilla you gotta pad your demos at the end so the next one starts properly "aligned" (hue hue)
[11:45 AM]dewsome:it's just inserting empty tics before the end byte
[11:45 AM]dewsome:that's how i dealt with the btsx desync

so it's possible to fix i suppose

has to start on a multiple of 4

 

55 minutes ago, Altazimuth said:

@Ryath This is a vanilla bug. https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Revenant_tracers_desync_internal_demos

Basically due to a timing bug, the DEMO lumps desync, because the gametic that is important for the Revenant's rocket isn't relative to when the demo starts.

 

EDIT: dew says that you can pad your demos such that the next one starts on a properly "aligned" tic. You should only need to pad between 1-3 tics per demo (if and only if the next demo desyncs, otherwise don't pad), as the tracing shot only traces on tics that are multiples of 4.

Thanks to both of you for such a quick answer! Can I play idiot for a second and ask how I'd go about inserting tics into a demo? And doing so wouldn't cause problems in ports that have corrected the desyncing issue?

 

1 hour ago, Voltcom9 said:

I will gladly give this a playthrough! Sometime likely after Christmas once things get a little less hectic.

 

Okay! I can put off release for a bit if it means getting some more feedback from you folks.

[Altazimuth]

I think that before the final byte (which should be 0x80) of the lump, you need to insert 4, 8, or 12 bytes, all with value 0x00. The ticcmd size in a demo is 4 bytes large, so that would be 1, 2, and 3 ticcmd respectively.

[scwiba]

Big announcetime! I've been talking with the incredible @Jayextee about doing some art for the TITLEPIC -- and they delivered in spades! It'll get scaled way down once it goes into the WAD, so I wanted to post it here for you all to see it in its splendor!

 

 

Are you hype yet? Because you should be.

 

PS: Jay you are the best.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Ryath (aka scwiba) : deleting old attachments to make room

[Jayextee]

9 minutes ago, Ryath said:

PS: Jay you are the best.

 

Thank you!

I am most proud of getting such expression out of the Cacodemon. Poor thing's not having a good time.

[scwiba]

It's been a hot minute, but here's a proper release candidate of UnNecessary.

 

I rushed the last version out with some pretty serious bugs, but everything seems to be in working order this time with just one exception: I wasn't able to fix the desync in DEMO2 in vanilla/Chocolate. It'll play properly in most other ports, though, so I'm willing to live with it. But if anyone smarter than me wants to give it a shot, I wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth.

 

Anyway, if you were too busy over the holidays to check out this big dumb WAD, now's your chance!

[Merry Widow]

I really like the tile pic.Looks great!

[anotak]

thinking about it, i probably could make an automated tool to pad demos for vanilla compat with revenants. i'll check back with that soon

[anotak]

edit: link removed

 

can you try this out for me? it's a command line tool

syntax is

demopadr <inputfile> <outputfile>

it probably needs to be run on all 3 DEMO lumps to make sure they all are padded correctly

 

needs .NET (if you can run DB2 or up it should work. probably should work on Mono too but i havent tried it)

 

i tried it out myself but i want someone else to check for me that nothing is broken

Edited January 18, 2018 by anotak

[scwiba]

Did you test it out specifically on the UnNecessary demos? I ran it on all three and the second one still desyncs -- though it desyncs at a different point. So... progress?

[anotak]

1 hour ago, Ryath said:

Did you test it out specifically on the UnNecessary demos? I ran it on all three and the second one still desyncs -- though it desyncs at a different point. So... progress?

it seems to work fine on my end, hrm

 

did you run it on all 3 demos and include all 3 demos in the wad?

for me, after i did that, the demo plays the same both when played individually with -playdemo and in the attract mode demo loop on the title screen.

[scwiba]

1 hour ago, anotak said:

did you run it on all 3 demos and include all 3 demos in the wad?

for me, after i did that, the demo plays the same both when played individually with -playdemo and in the attract mode demo loop on the title screen.

Tried the process twice now on two separate computers, running all three demos through the utility, and replaced all of them in the WAD. DEMO1 plays fine, but then DEMO2 gets stuck in the first rocket "course" area. If I play the demo outside the WAD with -playdemo, it plays out correctly -- which is that it gets past the first two blue barriers, brings down the third one, but then I die on the way back to it.

[anotak]

2 hours ago, Ryath said:

Tried the process twice now on two separate computers, running all three demos through the utility, and replaced all of them in the WAD. DEMO1 plays fine, but then DEMO2 gets stuck in the first rocket "course" area. If I play the demo outside the WAD with -playdemo, it plays out correctly -- which is that it gets past the first two blue barriers, brings down the third one, but then I die on the way back to it.

yea that's really really weird, considering that works on my end. this is why i asked you to try it out before i actually release it in a thread of its own lol. can you send me the logfiles it makes for each demo?

[scwiba]

Final update! UnNecessary is on /idgames! Tell all your friends, family, and church group members!