The DWIronman League dies to: Oscillation

I feel like maybe category 2 could be split further, as "familiar" is far too broad imo. Like I'm category 2 here even though in reality, I'd seen most (not all) of MAP01 in TNS, and walked around some of MAP02 after all the monsters had been killed, similar story for Anima. But I've also played the early maps of BTSX and Jenesis many times before they were in Ironman...apart from the odd secret or two I know those maps like the back of my hand. Seems weird they'd be lumped in the same category as this almost-but-not-quite-blind run I've done here.

 

Also please for the love of god someone die on map01 ;-;

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@Dime Yeah what @Ancalagon said. Those are category 2 (familiar). Category 3 (prepared) is the unskilled coward gamesmanship approach to Ironman that I preach, practise, and proselytize. Which reminds me, I haven't even looked at this wad yet. Better get on it.

 

Edit: @Eris Falling yeah I thought there was just going to be a "did you prepare once the wad was publically announced, or not" flag. I was mildly surprised it turned out to be a tristate.

 

Edited by RjY

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33 minutes ago, Eris Falling said:

I feel like maybe category 2 could be split further, as "familiar" is far too broad imo

"Saw the wad in some tns" category? :D

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Dead on map 07 , a group of arch-viles blasted me while some monsters were eating me. :(

 

 

 

This is a good and fun mapset , I see that Forli got a lot of inspiration from Sunder , Ribbiks maps and co. Secrets and the BFG in particular were very useful. In fact , some traps are very nasty. I almost died because of AV trap in map 03 and in a Cacodemon trap in map 06. The architecture in each level is pretty massive , the map 07 is very similar to Sunder's map 10 "The Cage".

 

Roofi_Oscillation_ironman.zip

 

doom83.png.f00ea285c1e34f3914a0dd5eac6d63de.png

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10 minutes ago, Roofi said:

Dead on map 07 , a group of arch-viles blasted me while some monsters were eating me. :(

I assume this was a totally blind run (op needs to know for tagging)?

With preknowledge, that part is a bit easier, especially if you save BFG from Map06 for it.  Going into that spot blind though, yikes.  I went back and watched Alfonzo's stream before I continued from where my demo left off; Map07 and Map08 went smoothly with preknowledge, but I will never know if I could've taken that archie-switch fight blind.  If I happened to be near the switches when yellow fire started crawling up my screen, there's a chance I would've panic-mashed the switches, but I spoiled the run so I won't really know.

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Just now, NoisyVelvet said:

I assume this was a totally blind run (op needs to know for tagging)?

 

  Hide contents

With preknowledge, that part is a bit easier, especially if you save BFG from Map06 for it.  Going into that spot blind though, yikes.  I went back and watched Alfonzo's stream before I continued from where my demo left off; Map07 and Map08 went smoothly with preknowledge, but I will never know if I could've taken that archie-switch fight blind.  If I happened to be near the switches when yellow fire started crawling up my screen, there's a chance I would've panic-mashed the switches, but I spoiled the run so I won't really know.

 

Yep , this run was totally blind.

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10 hours ago, Eris Falling said:

I've also played the early maps of BTSX and Jenesis many times before they were in Ironman...apart from the odd secret or two I know those maps like the back of my hand. Seems weird they'd be lumped in the same category as this almost-but-not-quite-blind run I've done here.

It is weird — no denying that. Follow the proposition of further segmented "familiar" runs, however, and I think you'll begin to see how murky the waters get. How do you draw the distinction between an almost-blind run and an all-but-prepared run in a way that does not rely to some extent on the player's own interpretation of the wording? You can't simply check against some objective metric — like the number of levels or areas familiar to you — because the scope and format for each Ironman challenge changes. We could split the category into two extremes like "I have played all of the content for the selected WAD but have not prepared my run" and "I have played at most a little of the content in a way that would offer still some advantage over blind players" but then you're just advancing the problem into a smaller space (what if I've *almost* played everything; what do you mean by "little"), at which point we're talking the creation of many more decimals for Cat 2... opening the door for an error-prone system where overlaps and mislabeling are commonplace.

 

Another thing to consider is that the player's familiarity with at least some areas still informs their placement even when they die in an area they have no knowledge of. You died in map02, for instance, but your familiarity with map01 meant that you've reached the second level a lot faster than most blind players will, and it will probably rank you higher than others who die in map02 as a result. In that sense, having even a small amount of knowledge isn't isolated; merely a question of degree applied across the whole board.

 

The current setup isn't perfect and maybe there's an easy out that I'm missing, but in the meantime it does offer clarity for the two bookend categories, which is really what we were looking to distinguish between, anyway. Every Cat 1 player is on the same page, and every Cat 3 player is at least asserting that they ought to be.

 

EDIT: I should probably add that yes, there is still some wiggle room in the current framing of Cat 1 & 2. Some players are going to detect a level of understanding with an area/level as insufficient to remove them from Cat 1 whereas others could make that leap. That sort of nebulousness definitely isn't helpful, but I'm hoping that with the strict distinction in citing even a small amount of familiarity, we can at least be confident that the sorts of runs that might be confused on this point — this single point, importantly — are probably not going to be all that separated and will err on the side of blindness.

Edited by Alfonzo
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It's good that most upper half runners make a run early in the month, it acts like a target for the lower ones to beat. That's cool. 

Edited by NaZa
Sarcastic part excluded

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I'm not on my home PC so no demo to supply right now; I totally forgot to post after my attempt.

 

Died on the third level, the double AV fight was a difficulty spike that I really should have been able to handle but I panicked and uh, well, let's just say I got served extra crispy!

Stream VOD - 0:04:00 until 0:42:48 (didn't last long! D:)

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/187364197

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This month's entry. The entirety of my preparations consists of recording FDA's once and never touching it until today, so that lands me straight into 3rd (prepared) category, I guess?

Dead on map07. Everything was going smooth until I've pressed the air instead of a switch and realized that after Doomguy's dead body went flying.

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2 hours ago, RjY said:

I think category 2 or 3 designation depends on whether you made those first-attempts before or after the wad for this month was publically announced: "did you seek to (re)gain knowledge of the set after it was announced but before declaring a genuine run?"

The answer is "yes", I've recorded them after the wad was announced on 01.11, so according to this logic I've submitted category 3 attempt.

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Died on map 3 because I was panicking. It's probably a case of Demophobia.
It was a blind run so it's a type 1 video.

As for videos from past month:

Legacy of Heroes: 1

BTSX E1: 2 (already played that one years ago during beta)

Mapgame: 1

VV 1 & 2: 1

Disturbia: 1

Insertion: 1

UR: 2 (already played that one years ago)

Osiris: 1

Endgame & endpoint: 1


Also thank you for having accepted my submission for End Point last month Alfonzo.

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6 hours ago, Beginner said:

The answer is "yes", I've recorded them after the wad was announced on 01.11, so according to this logic I've submitted category 3 attempt.

Ah, fair enough, sorry for the noise. I misread your original post to mean you had recorded the first attempts when the wad came out, not since the contest started.

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Category 2 run. I watched loveless stream this several weeks back, and some of the rooms looked familiar to me. Played pretty much like a blind run though. Died on map 2 'cuz I panicked and hid in the wrong place. :-\ 119 monsters dead on map 2, about 22 minutes total.

42ph_oscillation.zip

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Ugh.

 

I only played this one once before, in ZDaemon TNS, so I thought I at least had an idea of what to expect.  I ended up panicking in the red key area on MAP02.

 

 

oscillated-2.zip

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I was feeling sleepy while circle strafing the end, the random rocket helped fix that.

Category 2, played this in tns.

osciron-anc-8959.zip

Edited by Ancalagon
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Heh. Died in map 09, got cornered by Demons and Revs in the dreadful YK trap, which also caused me much grief during my first playthrough back in October. I feel that I should've tried to outmaneuver them a bit better instead of trying to sweep.

 

Category 2. I remembered some of the most iconic traps, such as the ones on maps 07 and 08, and without this foreknowledge I'd surely have died earlier.

Oh well, it's only natural that I die in a green/black map. One of my favorite color combos. :)

 



Excellent mapset Forli !
 

Oscillation-Ironman-PINKIED-wh.zip

Edited by WH-Wilou84
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Cornered in MAP02 and executed by Hell Knights: http://www.mediafire.com/file/xhgv1c1bk0yrt5r/UrthOsclltn.lmp

(Category 2: I'd had a quick look at maps 1 and 2 previously, but would have been blind if I had survived any further.)

 

An improvement on last month when I died within 15 seconds of starting MAP01. (Didn't upload the demo.)

 

Previous attempts:

BTSXE1 (Category 3: Not an actual prep, but know it so well that I might as well have done.)

Unholy Realms (Category 2)

Edited by Urthar
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No excuse, no excuse whatsoever. This is by far the most embarrassing death from me probably.

 

So, I made it to map 05 with a close call on maps 3 and 4. I was pretty much strolling along but I simply didn't try to avoid that revenant rocket and alas I died.

oscillationcb.zip

Nice set of maps by the way, some really nice visuals at times. Probably a category 2 run then.

Edited by cannonball
I was unsure between 1 and 2, probably better to leave it as a cat 2 run.
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On 01/11/2017 at 1:25 AM, Alfonzo said:

2. This is a familiar run. I have played or watched the level/set being played before — even if it's only one area — and can remember enough details to have an advantage over blind players.

 

I think even seeing a tidbit of the architecture or visuals leans towards 2? Debatable. Either way, you beat me! 

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"Hi, here's my run. It's category 2, I saw a screenshot of map04 a few years ago."

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Yeah. As Alfonzo said in the OP it's kinda... hard to categorise. Besides I think based on the way it sounded that cat1/2 are basically the same, unless two people died at exactly the same point I guess?

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no, theyre not the same - the definition has two parts to it, 1) that you are familiar (as in you have seen something from the wad before) & 2) that said familiarity provides you with an advantage.

if i have seen a screenshot of a random room, and when i play the wad i dont recognise that room, or even if i do it doesnt help me with a fight that takes place in that room, then it remains as a cat 1 run.

if i have seen a screenshot of a random room, and a familiarity with - say - the geometry lets me avoid an ambush somehow, then i have benefitted and its a cat 2 run.

Edited by rehelekretep
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Well, it is true that cat 2 is less important than the distinction between 1 and 3, but 2 is so painfully broad. Seems cannonball edited out what he saw before hand, but IIRC it was just noclipping here and there, and not actually playing anything.. Well, I felt that my run was pretty borderline between 1 and 2, so IMO cb's run is a category 1, otherwise my facetious comment becomes a little too close to the truth :D

 

Something else to consider:

9 hours ago, Urthar said:

BTSXE1 (Category 3: Not an actual prep, but know it so well that I might as well have done.)

Surely under the current definitions this qualifies as a 2, but this just adds to the identity crisis of this middle category. Perhaps these should count as 3, and as for what defines knowing the mapsets so well.. honour system to the rescue I guess?

 

If Coffee Break ever gets played on Ironman I'd be in the same category there as I was here. It's just weird *shrug*

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At the risk of repeating myself, yes — it is weird. I invite you to read through the ugly block of text I threw up near the top of this page. If we can work around the problem of blurred lines within this space then we can finally separate what are ostensibly distinct runs.

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