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Juza

Why don't people just use UDMF format?

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34 minutes ago, scifista42 said:

You mean work with maps in UDMF? No. The only ports that currently support UDMF are (G)ZDoom, Zandronum, Eternity, 3DGE, and from the no-longer-active ones, Skulltag and Vavoom. And I'm not sure if there's even any single UDMF map that works in all of these.

No, just to ignore the map header.

I wasn't aware that Eternity and 3DGE supported UDMF. I thought it was mainly Zdoom based ports, so thanks for that. :)

Edited by Mr.Rocket

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if you need features more complicated than D1 Open Door you should probably look into modding Half Life 2 ūüŹĖÔłŹ

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24 minutes ago, Arctangent said:

this thread mostly just ended up being a great example of how word choice really takes what you meant to say and twists it until what you're actually saying into something entirely different

rofl congratulations for involving all of us in creating a problem so you can learn your own lesson...?

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No no no, what everyone really meant to say is that they would all rather map in UDMF or DOOM!

However, it all depends on how big of a breakfast they had.:)

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On 11/12/2017 at 2:08 PM, Memfis said:

I feel like for the most part Doom is already a complete game with a very distinct style. Any little extension of its features is incredibly dangerous as it can easily ruin the perfect harmony. I'm okay with some minor stuff, but I'm definitely not interested in turning Doom into something it's not. DOOM=DOOM. So I don't need UDMF.


End of this thread.

 

What I mean is that I strongly support this post.

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35 minutes ago, 40oz said:

rofl congratulations for involving all of us in creating a problem so you can learn your own lesson...?

I'm neither Doomkid nor Scotty, man.

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UDMF's cool, but when I've tried mapping for it myself I've not really used much of the features beyond coloured lighting. For me the main appeal of UDMF mapping would be having more flexibility over everything. As a player, I like the cool stuff that UDMF can bring to the table - I really liked ZDCMP2, for example.

 

Boom's my preference for mapping - I've done plain vanilla before and I don't feel like restricting myself to those limits again, and limit-removing -cl2 just doesn't really interest me, may as well go straight to boom format. I get a lot of use out of voodoo dolls, and in-map conveyor belts are fun to play around with.

Speaking of, consistent behaviour of conveyor belts between PrBoom+ and ZDoom ports would be wonderful, but I dunno if that's ever going to be feasible.

 

I think I'll abstain from religiously defending one format over the other.

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4 minutes ago, Arctangent said:

I'm neither Doomkid nor Scotty, man.

you'll figure it out in the next thread you try to commandeer.

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1 hour ago, Arctangent said:

this thread mostly just ended up being a great example of how word choice really takes what you meant to say and twists it until what you're actually saying into something entirely different

why are you so bitter? :x

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3 minutes ago, 40oz said:

you'll figure it out in the next thread you try to commandeer.

Are you saying you're going to find me on the street and shatter my skull on the curb?

 

Because that's what this sounds like an awful lot.

 

4 minutes ago, bioshockfan90 said:

why are you so bitter? :x

I don't think bitter's the word you want to use, because if it is, you might need to use a different word anyway because I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

At least, in this context.

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Hi guys, this is Doom in Hexen:
qdQaRWR.jpg

And this is UDMF:
7VYRBAY.jpg

Choice is up to you, UDMF has interesting things but since many prefer keep maps simple, at this point it doesn't really matter besides filesize, what does matter is the art you're going to and of course, picking a format that supports ACS avoids voodoo dolls hackery, but that's all in terms of plain and simple "Doom".

You guys talks so much about technical terms of the formats but in the end nobody will manage to make a map that uses 100% of it anyway... KDiZD is an example that if you try to use everything at once just because the format has such thing avaliable, it will end by being a "beautiful cluttered experience".

 

I'll ward this thread btw

r8j82ZTt.jpg

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N

5 minutes ago, Arctangent said:

Are you saying you're going to find me on the street and shatter my skull on the curb?

 

this thread mostly just ended up being a great example of how word choice really takes what you meant to say and twists it until what you're actually saying into something entirely different

 

edit: we really don't need to be talking about this in this thread. If youre still confused you can ask me about it elsewhere. But its really not very confusing.

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Just now, 40oz said:

 

this thread mostly just ended up being a great example of how word choice really takes what you meant to say and twists it until what you're actually saying into something entirely different

Yes, if you weren't trying to sound like a tough for some sort of Doomworld mafia trying to shut me up because I was offending its don, this

 

14 minutes ago, 40oz said:

you'll figure it out in the next thread you try to commandeer.

was a perfect example of that quote.

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1 hour ago, yakfak said:

if you need features more complicated than D1 Open Door you should probably look into modding Half Life 3 ūüŹĖÔłŹ

FTFY

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8 hours ago, Da Werecat said:

This time I got curious. In my imagination, I expected some kind of crazy neon extravaganza, because it's probably the only style you can show to normies with a small chance of them not complaining about dated visuals. Instead, I was treated to this:

 

RmxkSnM.png

Its more like this: 

Screenshot_Doom_20171113_093746.png.0833736c8b7f045c26a1573bde16c2eb.png

Screenshot_Doom_20171113_093758.png.865b9a79ee47027d960c8633c97cfe0e.png\

 

Neon like you said, it looks pretty cool

 

 

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1 hour ago, yakfak said:

if you need features more complicated than D1 Open Door you should probably look into modding Half Life 2 ūüŹĖÔłŹ

Source can be buggy as shit, and extra complicated for something as simple as a 3D floor. I don't see why you'd think having anything beyond vanilla doom is a sign that they should move to something WAY different and more advanced, as well as more complicated. Plus Half-Life 2 Doesn't play like Doom at all.

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4 hours ago, Arctangent said:

this thread mostly just ended up being a great example of how word choice really takes what you meant to say and twists it until what you're actually saying into something entirely different

Folks who do that need to just drop the semantics game and be authentic about communication. Too often a potentially good convo gets derailed by weird tangents about sentence structure.

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Quote

Why don't people just use UDMF format?

Because people prefer to do things a certain way that they like /thread

 

If I prefer to release a map in UDMF and you have something negative to say because of the format I chose and not anything constructive about the content of the level, then I think your opinion should be discarded. If you're mapping exclusively for ZDoom, there's technically no reason to use anything but UDMF since it is objectively more feature-rich and [subjectively] easier to "wield" than Hexen or binary Doom format, but let's be real, who actually fucking cares

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6 hours ago, GoatLord said:

Folks who do that need to just drop the semantics game and be authentic about communication. Too often a potentially good convo gets derailed by weird tangents about sentence structure.

There's no game. Understanding each other isn't something that you just need to be willing to do in order for it to happen 100% of time.

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15 hours ago, Arctangent said:

this thread mostly just ended up being a great example of how word choice really takes what you meant to say and twists it until what you're actually saying into something entirely different

Hey now, it also ended up being a great example that you shouldn't read too deeply into innocuous posts. You can reach any number of vastly different conclusions about what someone is saying when you tac too many assumptions onto statements as you read them:

 

On 11/13/2017 at 1:03 PM, Arctangent said:

So ... you actually don't care about how original Doom felt at all?

14 hours ago, Arctangent said:

Are you saying you're going to find me on the street and shatter my skull on the curb?

 

Context clues are not interpreted in one universal way. But you know, pobody's nerfect, errors in communication happen sometimes. Da Warecat graciously sent me a line via PM and I've responded and apologized. This was nothing personal by any means, my reaction was far more intense than necessary and I've admitted as much.

 

To get back to the topic, is there some sort of chart out there which outlines the basics of what advanced features are present in each common mapping format and what ports support which features? I know Decay intensively tested the limits of what Odamex can support somewhat recently and even though they're commonly lumped together in the world of source ports, it was uncovered that ZDaemon and Odamex support a (seemingly random) totally different variety of advanced features present in Hexen format. Despite this, neither one has any sort of reference sheet or anything for a mapper to consult as they're building a wad to know what they can and cannot do before passing the port's limits. You just sort of have to "try it and see if it works" which is obviously less than optimal (sucks ass).

 

I'd have to imagine the details are out there and easy to find for ZDoom and PrBoom+, but it would be good to have one main page mappers can consult to see if what they're making will run in their target port(s). I might do some stress testing of ZDaemon myself to find out exactly where it's limits lie in terms of feature support. This info really shouldn't be as hard to find as it is and I'd like to rectify that.

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6 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Hey now, it also ended up being a great example that you shouldn't read too deeply into innocuous posts. You can reach any number of vastly different conclusions about what someone is saying when you tac too many assumptions onto statements as you read them:

In all fairness, the only one I intentionally read how it clearly wasn't supposed to was 40oz's "mafia tough" one, and even that was being facetious and wasn't even reading into it deeply at all. It really was flat-out phrased like some mafia / gangster tough threatening someone.

 

Everything else I just read as it actually read to me naturally. I broke down one of those posts, yes, but I didn't have to to read it the way I did, only to point out how it read without, actually, a bunch of assumptions.

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12 hours ago, Da Werecat said:

There's no game. Understanding each other isn't something that you just need to be willing to do in order for it to happen 100% of time.

Our constant use of language is a game, and everyone plays it. Some people play it very well, resulting in worthwhile communication. Other times people narrow in on irrelevant details, are willfully contrarian, or are just plain facile, and the conversation ends up being about interpretation. It absolutely is a game, and I think we need to be mindful of avoiding semantic traps.

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5 minutes ago, GoatLord said:

Our constant use of language is a game, and everyone plays it. Some people play it very well, resulting in worthwhile communication. Other times people narrow in on irrelevant details, are willfully contrarian, or are just plain facile, and the conversation ends up being about interpretation. It absolutely is a game, and I think we need to be mindful of avoiding semantic traps.

True. It can lead to sarcasm, misinterpretations and confusion. But all of this is just offtopic to the main post anyway.

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11 minutes ago, GoatLord said:

Our constant use of language is a game, and everyone plays it.

But you weren't talking about dropping our use of language. The game you were talking about is the one you seem to be playing right now. Perhaps unconsciously, so calling it a game might not be appropriate. The word "game" suggests intent.

 

Sometimes shit happens. You're not the first one around here to try and blame it on being insincere or what have you, but sometimes simply saying whatever it is you think needs to be said is about enough.

 

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I suppose I should mention that I'm currently mapping in UDMF, but not using too much yet aside from dyno lights and poly objects.

Also guessing this thread might die soon, so everyone clock out, take a lunch brake, and we go from there.

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9 minutes ago, Mr.Rocket said:

take a lunch brake

rgme5T4.png

 

7XRJx3Q.png

 

um

 

extra fun: i read this the moment i took a bite out of a egg mcmuffin

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