What is American about Doom?

I think net neutrality is indispensable for freedom of speech on the Internet. Countries that are attempting to destroy it are therefore attempting to destroy freedom of speech.

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I'd like the point out that the American Declaration of Independence, a core part of American culture and the basis of the American governmental philosophy, provides some pretty good justifications for overthrowing the American government.

 

Food for thought.

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21 hours ago, kb1 said:

The rest of the world discusses their opinions, using American technology, invented by Americans, trained in America. The rest of the world can discuss these things, in large part due to the sacrifice of Americans, spreading the American ideas of freedom of speech for all people to the rest of the world.

 

1 hour ago, kb1 said:

And, if the world does turn into a "borderless global community", who's laws do you think will govern such a world?

 

it was America that recognized freedom of speech as a God-given right, and it is America that has fought and will continue to fight for that right. And it is America, partially through the "borderless global community" that stands as a model for freedom of speech.

 

These might be the worst opinions I've read on doomworld. Which means it won out over quite a lot of racist burbling, so congrats.

 

The ability of US citizens to mentally erase the rest of the world is truly terrifying.

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2 hours ago, Grain of Salt said:

 

 

These might be the worst opinions I've read on doomworld. Which means it won out over quite a lot of racist burbling, so congrats.

 

The ability of US citizens to mentally erase the rest of the world is truly terrifying.

Heh - there were no opinions in any of my text. Your text supplies an opinion in each sentence. But you want opinions, so I'll supply a few:

 

I believe in the ideals that America was founded upon. I don't always agree with America's actions. We do have checks and balances that are supposed to balance power with wisdom, but they don't always work out like they should. But it is those ideals that so many courageous souls gave up and continue to give up their lives to defend. When I speak of Americans, I am speaking of people of all nations, because America is made up of people of all nations.

 

The lifestyle and freedoms that so many of us (here and abroad) take for granted are a fairly new phenomenon. I don't think any of us can imagine the fear and oppression once felt and experienced by our ancestors, not so long ago. I try to not take it for granted. So many people have had it so good for so long, that no one remembers, and few people can even imagine what life was like, without these privileges.

 

Talk about being mentally erased. What is truly terrifying is that so many people will forget about the sacrifices, and that so many people will take their rights and freedoms for granted, that they will forget to defend these rights, and may eventually be taken over. Only then will those people understand the value of freedom. But it will be too late.

 

The Jedi Mind Trick technique won't work here. You can't just throw in terms like "racist", "archaic ideology", and "borderless global community", and magically win the argument. Why would you want to win such an argument? I'm talking about courageous people protecting and defending ideals about freedoms for all mankind. You guys are... I don't even know what you're trying to do - express self-frustration or something.

 

Fight battles that are worthy to mankind. Fight against the bad guys. Fighting against the founding ideas of America is fighting against yourself, and against mankind. If you ain't about fighting the good fight, I got no more time for you.

 

 

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48 minutes ago, kb1 said:

You guys are... I don't even know what you're trying to do

isn't this like

 

a pretty big sign that you're pulling your strawman right out of your ass

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I don't care who's right or wrong, why derail an otherwise interesting thread? I rather liked the discussion that was going on before petty political spats broke out.

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2 hours ago, kb1 said:

The lifestyle and freedoms that so many of us (here and abroad) take for granted are a fairly new phenomenon. I don't think any of us can imagine the fear and oppression once felt and experienced by our ancestors, not so long ago. I try to not take it for granted. So many people have had it so good for so long, that no one remembers, and few people can even imagine what life was like, without these privileges.

I think the frustration some are expressing here lies with the idea that Americans are the only ones willing to fight for their freedoms. America has been an extremely important/influential force over the last few hundred years and many nations have followed in Americas footsteps, for better or for worse - in most ways for the better, someone would have to be crazy to deny that - but I can't get behind the (implied) idea that freedom, freedom of speech, the desire for success etc etc are somehow "quintessentially American". People generally desire liberation and many many people have fought vehemently for it throughout human history, not just Americans.

 

(Please know I don't mean this post as some sort of negative shit fight or something, it's intended as a non-vitriolic response to an idea I disagree with, that's all)

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I think what makes Doom "American" are the American pop culture influences from action movies to horror flicks and the view of firearms.

 

That, and one of the devs was literally named American, so there. :P

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16 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

I think the frustration some are expressing here lies with the idea that Americans are the only ones willing to fight for their freedoms.

This is definitely part of it, but it's also part of it that kb1 pulled out of his own ass considering nobody questioned it until he decided to declare that America basically invented everything. There's some blatantly blind loyalty being showed when you sweep under the rug stuff like the genocide of native people, the ill-fitting puppet governments being installed for the sake of oil trade, and the lack of restrictions on waste disposal causing accelerating damage to the environment and atmosphere with "but America is the land of the free!!!!"

 

If he's really so upset about people not being mindful of the people who have died for his country, then he should really be directing it towards the people who power who wipe their asses all over what those guys died for, not the people pointing out the results of ass-wiping.

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Bad guys? People can do bad stuff alright but you know they're exactly the same way in the head as anyone else? Even if they're mentally ill, they are people. Understanding is key to peace. They're not Orcs.

 

I'm not gonna put anymore gasoline on the fire kb1, if you believe in "winning" the argument. In my opinion a healthy debate is for learning the other parts viewpoints so we all can end up a bit wiser and closer to a compromise where we can agree, or agree to disagree.

 

It seems like you already made up your mind.

Edited by RightField
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On 12/1/2017 at 0:44 AM, Blastfrog said:

I don't care who's right or wrong, why derail an otherwise interesting thread? I rather liked the discussion that was going on before petty political spats broke out.

 

On 12/1/2017 at 1:45 AM, dethtoll said:

If "being reasonable" means compromising my morals, values, or beliefs, I want no part of it. Gee, I didn't know you find me to be an "elite". I'm not, really, but thanks!

 

On 12/1/2017 at 2:05 AM, Doomkid said:

I think the frustration some are expressing here lies with the idea that Americans are the only ones willing to fight for their freedoms. America has been an extremely important/influential force over the last few hundred years and many nations have followed in Americas footsteps, for better or for worse - in most ways for the better, someone would have to be crazy to deny that - but I can't get behind the (implied) idea that freedom, freedom of speech, the desire for success etc etc are somehow "quintessentially American". People generally desire liberation and many many people have fought vehemently for it throughout human history, not just Americans.

Agree. Those ideas are definitely American, but not just American.

 

On 12/1/2017 at 2:29 AM, Arctangent said:

This is definitely part of it, but it's also part of it that kb1 pulled out of his own ass...

You sure talk about ass and things moving out of asses a lot... As for the rest of it, I already stated that I don't stand behind all of my country's actions. No spin, please.

 

On 12/1/2017 at 3:36 PM, RightField said:

Bad guys? People can do bad stuff alright but you know they're exactly the same way in the head as anyone else? Even if they're mentally ill, they are people. Understanding is key to peace. They're not Orcs.

You believe in understanding and peace, clearly making you a "good guy". Not everyone does. I used to think everyone basically believed in love and caring and sharing, but, you know what? It isn't true. There are truly some evil, self-centered fuckers out there, and many of them gravitate towards positions of power. I call them "evil", and, yes, evil hateful people do exist.

 

Quote

 

I'm not gonna put anymore gasoline on the fire kb1, if you believe in "winning" the argument. In my opinion a healthy debate is for learning the other parts viewpoints so we all can end up a bit wiser and closer to a compromise where we can agree, or agree to disagree.

 

It seems like you already made up your mind.

There's nothing healthy about talking shit about a country, because if you're talking about a country, you're talking about her people - you can't separate the two concepts. It's indecent. And that's true for all countries, and for most people. Talking shit about good people gives the evil people power and energy. It is my experience that the majority of Americans are good, caring, well-intending people. I imagine that's true for most people of all countries. To me, your statement about "heinous shit" is intended to spread hate to those few individuals ignorant enough to climb aboard. The way to "win" is to rise above it.

 

Stand with people that care about people, and the world. Talking smack is a move out of the bad guys' playbook.

 

 

Edited by kb1

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21 hours ago, Blastfrog said:

I don't care who's right or wrong, why derail an otherwise interesting thread? I rather liked the discussion that was going on before petty political spats broke out.

Let's have more discussions on architecture and building materials. Since every political fight is about proving your point instead of converting the opponent (this isn't internet LD), they are generally pointless and just drag on.

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1 hour ago, Quantum Dranger said:

Since every political fight is about proving your point instead of converting the opponent (this isn't internet LD), they are generally pointless and just drag on.

Sorry for my part in the derail, everyone. I didn't want to prove a point. I took offense to the unnecessary, mean-spirited insult against that which I believe in. I wanted to see some defense. As is often the case, the person willing to take to job happened to be me. I did what I could, and now I'm done.

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9 hours ago, kb1 said:

There's nothing healthy about taking shit about a country, because if you're talking about a country, you're talking about her people - you can't separate the two concepts.

North Korea kinda sucks tho. Or so I've heard.

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9 hours ago, kb1 said:

There's nothing healthy about taking shit about a country, because if you're talking about a country, you're talking about her people - you can't separate the two concepts.

I mean

 

One, what's the issue with talking shit about people doing terrible stuff in the first place, the whole "bad guys' playbook" thing sound like you've removed yourself form this world to become a Saturday morning cartoon hero. A Saturday morning cartoon that aims to spread propaganda about how its nation can do no wrong, so anyone who speaks up against it is clearly a terrorist and / or not lacking Good Christian Values.

 

Two, while yes you can't exactly talk about a nation without talking about it people due to the former stemming from the latter, you phrase this in such a way that it sounds like by shittalking America I'm shittalking your Aunt May. And I don't know anything about your Aunt May, but I doubt she's done anything at all to significantly define what America's like. Hell, most people haven't. So it's pretty out their to claim that I'm shittalking your Aunt May by shittalking America, unless you follow some bizarro religion that states that we're all as one as Trump's lower intestine or something, which ... is pretty insulting to pretty much everyone on this forum.

 

9 hours ago, kb1 said:

You sure talk about ass and things moving out of asses a lot...

Well, I mean

 

q4UjyFM.png

 

not liking asses is a clear sign of poor moral fiber, as well as poor dietary fiber.

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McGee

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On 11/23/2017 at 10:00 AM, Revenant100 said:

Doomguy is canonically American, and the majority of Doom 2 takes place in the US, likely Texas.

Really? Where's all the Texans who have taken arms to fight the demons?

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11 hours ago, Alter said:

McGee

 

Well played.

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3 hours ago, ATP2555 said:

Really? Where's all the Texans who have taken arms to fight the demons?

Billions were said to have been killed in Hell's initial invasion of Earth. In their plan to disable the demon's flame barrier that was preventing the ships holding the remaining human survivors from evacuating into space, the last remnants of Earth's soldiers carried out an assault on the infested starport. Doomguy was the only survivor.

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On 11/23/2017 at 1:26 PM, Memfis said:

Can you see American influence in the game? What would be different if it was made in Europe, for example?

If It Was Made I Europe You'd Be Picking Up Healthy Snacks Instead Of Health Bonuses.

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Speaking of asses... why are the asses in Doom so detailed/defined? That always struck me as a bit odd.

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On 12/2/2017 at 8:12 AM, Arctangent said:

I mean

 

One, what's the issue with talking shit about people doing terrible stuff in the first place, the whole "bad guys' playbook" thing sound like you've removed yourself form this world to become a Saturday morning cartoon hero. A Saturday morning cartoon that aims to spread propaganda about how its nation can do no wrong, so anyone who speaks up against it is clearly a terrorist and / or not lacking Good Christian Values.

This now marks the 3rd time I have stated that I don't agree with everything my country does, which means that *you* are spreading propaganda. And, yeah, I do try to be one of the good guys. Does that make me a hero? Probably not. Oh, and I've also defended freedom of speech multiple times in this thread, making your last sentence obviously, ridiculously untrue as well. Why not take those 'talents' of yours, and write a novel, or something. You know, be one of the "good guys".

On 12/2/2017 at 8:12 AM, Arctangent said:

Two, while yes you can't exactly talk about a nation without talking about it people due to the former stemming from the latter, you phrase this in such a way that it sounds like by shittalking America I'm shittalking your Aunt May. And I don't know anything about your Aunt May, but I doubt she's done anything at all to significantly define what America's like.

It is a disservice to sum up Aunt May, or a country, by listing a few of her actions. It provides an incomplete picture to everyone involved, and if the sum is negative, it only serves to invoke negative feelings. That's what makes it indecent.

 

On 12/2/2017 at 8:12 AM, Arctangent said:

 

Hell, most people haven't. So it's pretty out their to claim that I'm shittalking your Aunt May by shittalking America, unless you follow some bizarro religion that states that we're all as one as Trump's lower intestine or something, which ... is pretty insulting to pretty much everyone on this forum.

The insult is what I've been defending against. I know "debate club" is your thing, but man, can't you do better than that? Less transparency next time, would ya?

 

On 12/2/2017 at 8:12 AM, Arctangent said:

 

Well, I mean

 

q4UjyFM.png

 

not liking asses is a clear sign of poor moral fiber, as well as poor dietary fiber.

Nice pic! I'm just not comfortable with how much you like to describe and think about *my* ass...

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God, just stop. You're embarrassing yourself. Again.

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Wow, how did I not notice a EE thread breaking out in here?

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