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StevenC21

[Rant] [Posted here because its relevant to editting]

Question

This frustrates me so much. I am trying so hard to make nice maps that are a blend of functionality and aesthetics, but no matter what I do, I am incapable of innovating anything; not to mention that the maps look like trash. I know I am steadily improving, but then I see other people's "first wad" entries, and they look SO MUCH BETTER. It makes me want to quit, but at this point, I can't just stop. I've spent too much time to just quit. I don't know if this would be relevant, but is my lack of creativity potentially stemming from my youth? I am only 14.

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Youth is only tangentially relevant; experience is what really matters, so youth only comes into the picture in that a 14-year-old can only theoretically have 14 years of experience with something if they devote literally every hour of existence to the trade, compared to a 30-year-old's 30 years of experience if they do that same.

 

As far as first wads go, there's two factors: one, different people have different kinds of intelligence, so someone better at putting mental pictures onto slates and with great intrinsic spatial awareness will end up having an easier time doing better at level design that someone who doesn't. Two, first wads don't necessary mean first time ever making a level, so people who come along and make a first wad after they've gotten a hand of how to make Half-Life levels or even something so far away from Doom like Mario levels will end up having experience to call on when starting fresh with Doom.

 

Oh, and a third factor: their actual first wads were probably utter garbage fires, they just scrapped 'em and moved onto another idea. Creative works aren't as simple as having an idea, whipping it up, and then having an amazing thing to show to the world - there's a lot of things that just don't work out all that well or the creator doesn't yet have to skill to pull off the idea. There's a reason why you hear people talk about idea they've wanted to do for a long time but never ended up doing - chances are they actually started 'em, but hit a snag and couldn't finish it.

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Don't make a Doom level for other people. Make a Doom level that YOU want to play. Once you stop worrying about what other people might think, you won't feel this restricted.

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I was exactly your age when i first started mapping (and playing Doom in general) which was one year ago,looking at the evolution of my mapping style i can tell you that age hasn't anything to do with making good maps,experience does.Don't worry on how the maps look at the beggining of your mapping journey since you have enough time to do that when you know what you are doing just care about gameplay :) even the most amazing looking map will be hated on if it's just a square room with 150 Hellknights corridor with a bfg and a ton of imps.Some of those "my first map" wads are probably their 20-30th since most of us at first when learning the editor make basic wolf3d style maps trying out different things.Just practice,practice and practice (and get feedback from us guys while doing it :) ) and then you can make stuff you can be

 proud of!

 

40 minutes ago, Mordeth said:

Don't make a Doom level for other people. Make a Doom level that YOU want to play.

LOL since i started doing the opposite my maps started being much much better :D

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2 minutes ago, StevenC21 said:

And I am proud of my maps, it just seems like I shouldn't be proud of them.

All artist hate their own art,it's part of being an artist.

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3 hours ago, StevenC21 said:

 ...I would rather have a fully textured map than a great map with 1 billion HOMs.

 

Edit: The point is, I am glad I have help.

Lol. Sorry, my friend, but this is where you made mistake. First, goes layout and gameplay, later textures and details. More textured and detailed map is, more harder is add something more creative gameplay wise without sacrificing chunks of sectors and detailing. Also, HOM effects are easily fixable and if maps aren't big you can do that quickly. I know what I'm saying because I often fall in texturing and detailing than caring about good gameplay and ending in barren rooms with accidental combat. Also, untextured/startan rooms in building phase are easier to change or delete them entirely without sacrificing much already done stuff. 

 

One last thing - HOM effect is perfect method for instant rising floor trap which reveals monsters. It creates illusion that floor is textured and safe, but with special instant trigger you can surprise players with popping up monsters and capture them surprised and unprepared.

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Y'know, Doom Editting is the one videogame design thing I haven't given up on once I hit a snag. So I feel like I can't just stop now. I also really like it. I really wish that I had more creativity though. This is one of the few things I like doing, so naturally, it sucks that I am garbage at it.

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@Mordeth ...That is a really good way to look at it. I guess the only hiccup is that I constantly seem to need the approval of the people around me. For example, I haven't seen the one person that I really am able to talk about anything to in 2 weeks. I had a breakdown yesterday because I need to talk to him regularly or I get really depressed. So I started modding Doom so hopefully some people might say they liked what I was doing, not a lot necessarily, just some. But yeah, I should make the level I want to make.

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Huh, @SOSU, you are really giving me hope that I can improve. I suppose it really isn't fair to compare myself to people who have done it for 5+ years. And I am proud of my maps, it just seems like I shouldn't be proud of them.

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@SOSU Are you serious? That is weird. Anyways, I uploaded a garbage wadpack I made, which I suppose wasn't garbage, just very basic and bland, and it was rated 0 stars, so I suppose people didn't like my art either. Ehh.

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My first maps were ass too. My advice: stop whining, play a lot more maps, look at how they are made, practice mapping until you get better. I can make a much better map now. It just takes time. Those who make maps that are good right away either took a long time making them or already had map editing experience from other games... or they are just that good.

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Everyone starts out shitty.  Ive been mapping for a long time, and imo i still suck lol.  You will definitely get better as you make more maps, thats a guarantee.  It takes awhile and I know it seems like you wont, but you will.  I thought the exact same thing man.  Im pretty sure we have all been in your shoes.  I know I have.  But practice makes perfect.  You have endless amounts of youtube channels like chubzdoomer and more that make alot of how to's for doom building and you have a great community that will answer any questions that you have on making your maps no matter how simple or complex.  Ive learned alot over the past few years of mapping and if you dont wanna post a thread, send me a PM and I will try to help anyway I can.  Ill even play test your maps if you want me to to give you pointers or anything,  But posting in the editing thread, is a really good way to learn also and browse through other peoples questions.  Your not alone man, so dont give up. 

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I should have phrased that better,when you are working on it and untill you release it you think that it's basically the second coming of christ.Later,after a while of reading reviews/feedback and making another map you start to dislike it.You can see this here in the Doom community with me hating Ice Sorcerer's Castle and loving  Serious Sidhe,in the near future after i release something new i will start hating Serious Sidhe.If you want this in video mode check out 

 

Which is basically Everyone making fun of MTrops old maps and him saying "god i made some garbage".

 

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my first wads were pretty bad, just keep learning and play PWADs and you'll figure it out over time 

 

if it makes you feel better, here's the automap for my first map 2 years ago, compared to now:

 

snKv2GP.png

 

IMw1ivC.png

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2 minutes ago, bioshockfan90 said:

my first wads were pretty bad, just keep learning and play PWADs and you'll figure it out over time 

 

if it makes you feel better, here's the automap for my first map 2 years ago, compared to now:

 

snKv2GP.png

 

IMw1ivC.png

The second one does look better, but the first one doesnt look that bad imo

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Keep pushing forward man. Slow starts can still achieve big things.

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Well, easiest solution is find private tester who is nitpicky towards level design, gameplay and such and criticizes you for your mistakes and helps to improve overall things. Without useful feedback, I still would be stucked in square phase and remember - patience is a key. 

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@Myst.Haruko Well, this is convenient. I happen to have a private tester who does help me with this sort of thing. He tends to focus more on editting errors than gameplay though, but I would rather have a fully textured map than a great map with 1 billion HOMs.

 

Edit: The point is, I am glad I have help.

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52 minutes ago, StevenC21 said:

@Myst.Haruko Well, this is convenient. I happen to have a private tester who does help me with this sort of thing. He tends to focus more on editting errors than gameplay though, but I would rather have a fully textured map than a great map with 1 billion HOMs.

 

Edit: The point is, I am glad I have help.

Like I said, the Doom community is one of the best and anyone will answer any questions you have.  Keep on mapping brother.

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1 minute ago, StevenC21 said:

@AleksB I am so glad that that is true. I am so lucky to be a part of the doom family!

Its cool forsure.  And we are glad to have new people.  And Like I said earlier, if you have any questions or you dont wanna post in the thread for whatever reason, send me a pm and I can help with any questions or give tips on map building for you.

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I've been mapping since childhood, been at it for years now and still garbage at it, but that don't stop me from slapping some lines down in Doom Builder damnit! Never let yourself feel discouraged if what you're making isn't quite as grand as what you can imagine. Fall down 7 times, get up 8!

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On 12/10/2017 at 1:01 PM, StevenC21 said:

@SOSU Are you serious? That is weird. Anyways, I uploaded a garbage wadpack I made, which I suppose wasn't garbage, just very basic and bland, and it was rated 0 stars, so I suppose people didn't like my art either. Ehh.

Part of creating stuff (and growing up) is learning to handle criticism and rejection. It's hard, but don't let those 0 stars get you down too much, just keep doing your best and try to improve. Hey, it doesn't mean they're always right either.

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