4800 Hell Knights: A Community Megawad [IN NEED OF NEW LEADERSHIP]

[THMG]

I've updated the OP to include a new list for mappers because didn't want to scare off people, changed the project format (PLEASE READ THIS) I updated the deadline, and loosened the theme requirements a little more.

 

I've begun work on a hub world ^{whew, working on like 6 projects at once is a doozy}, with the current design goal being something like this:

One hall with Co-Op spawns on one end, and teleporters to various "theme halls" along their sides (e.g. one to the vehicles hall, one to the other games hall, etc.)

The goal of this design is to make it easily expandable if need be.

 

Also, @94's the best style I agree with you on a custom HUD of some kind.... we just have to figure out what theme we want it to take.

And hell, if we're doing custom HUDS and hubs, perhaps we could look at custom weapons for the whole mapset as well. I could easily put together a big resource .wad of items and weapons for mappers to use at their leisure. (Most of this would be yoinked directly from realm667, but if anyone else has ideas, I'll listen.)

 

For weapons, I'm currently thinking of having 1 weapon for each slot:

1. Railgun(Slot 6)
2. Flamethrower(Slot 5)
3.  Black Hole Generator (Slot 7)
4. Heavy Chaingun (Slot 4)
5. Nailgun (SG) (Slot 3)
6. Micro Uzi (Slot 2)
7. Double Bladed Chainsaw (Slot 1)

 

UPDATE: Nix on the monsters. I had no idea of their relative strengths. Custom weapons and the Key pack on realm667 will be all that's officially provided.

 

Edited December 16, 2017 by THMG

[SGS Man]

@THMG, I have a suggestion - since we plan to add custom monsters (and maybe weapons), the deadline should be extended to ensure that every map can be Maxed (this is especially important if we have new weapons). This would ensure that all of the custom stuff is somewhat balanced.

 

Also, forgot to inform you that my map is in Boom format.

[THMG]

40 minutes ago, SGS Man said:

@THMG, I have a suggestion - since we plan to add custom monsters (and maybe weapons), the deadline should be extended to ensure that every map can be Maxed (this is especially important if we have new weapons). This would ensure that all of the custom stuff is somewhat balanced.

 

Also, forgot to inform you that my map is in Boom format.

I've pushed the deadline all the way out to April, so I feel that 4 months'll be enough time for this. Also, due to difficulties with the monsters, along with not realizing their relative strengths, I've decided that the 7 custom weapons and the custom keys will be all I'll officially provide... but I'm more than open to suggestions for the 7 custom weapons. I feel that they should all serve a separate purpose from the usual slot they're in, to provide more variety. (e.g. the railgun works differently than the plasma gun)

 

Also, I'm currently experiencing some pretty hard mapper's block on my own map, if anyone would be willing to play it in a heavily unfinished state, and tell me what you think of it so far, that'd be greatly appreciated. The areas I've circled are the ones that're giving me the most trouble in figuring out interesting things to do with. Type "MAP TGMAP01" into the console to play it. It's bloated as hell, but link here: Ringworm.zip 

Edited December 16, 2017 by THMG

[Nevander]

19 hours ago, Nevander said:

Started work on my map finally. Got the main area basically designed and a texture scheme picked out, which resulted in a tiny theme change.

 

Change mine from "Gothic/Quake courtyard" to "Quake/Plutonia/Techbase hybrid courtyard"

Don't forget about my post here. I noticed someone else said Plutonia theme... but my post was first. Though my map will be pretty light on the Plutonia elements and more on the Quake side.

 

5 hours ago, THMG said:

And hell, if we're doing custom HUDS and hubs, perhaps we could look at custom weapons for the whole mapset as well. I could easily put together a big resource .wad of items and weapons for mappers to use at their leisure.

Please no! We don't need to include new weapons. I'm fine with a new HUD, in fact most megawads that get made end up with a new statusbar. Weapons however are a new ballgame and if they were made for a particular mod in mind, they should be separate because many of us (myself included) want to run our own weapon mods.

[SGS Man]

@THMG I Maxed the map. Some thoughts...

 

+ The theme and atmosphere are carried out well. The usage of friction and deep water certainly add character to the map.

+ The Hell Knights are fairly well used, especially in the beginning.

 

= I'm not sure if there was an exit. I know the map was incomplete so I wasn't expecting one.

 

- Ammo is rather awkwardly placed. The opening of the map delves into ammo starvation, but the deep water section has a lot of hidden ammo. This made the map feel extremely grindy while playing blind.

- Encounters are monotonous and/or gimmicky. Hell Knights are the only monsters present and rather than interesting usage, all of them end up as walls of meat. So you end up with one wall of meat on normal ground, one on high friction ground, and one in deep water.

- I could skip a lot of the return journey after the red key by using the fence to jump onto the outer ledge. This area also connects to the red lift, making the red key redundant.

 

Now for some suggestions regarding encounters that are already present -

 

1. I'd suggest you go for the ammo starvation route, given how the map flows right now. That could mean moving the ammo from the deep water to visible locations and reducing the amount of ammo. Or you could add a BFG early on, forcing the player to wait till it becomes useful.

2. Place a Green Armor somewhere early and make the secret plasma gun accessible early (although correct me if I missed something). The only way you can handle the onslaught of projectiles in the map's current state is if you grab the megasphere early. Or add more medikits.

3. Use other monsters to make gameplay more interesting. Maybe Spectres and Revenants instead of Hell Knights in the friction and deep water sections of the map. They move quite well and can pin the player down better than HKs. Plus using other enemies could allow for infighting, easing the burden of ammo starvation. For instance, the deep water section could be made "deeper" and filled only with Spectres, and in this case, the player would be able to see the hidden ammo fixing another one of the issues.

 

Regarding potential encounters...

 

1. That poison cloud thing could make for some interesting encounters later on. You've already shown it to the player as part of the map's progression. It would make sense to use it more. This could work well with encounters designed for the Chaingun.

2.  The creepers could be used to create a dense 'forest' with ambushes of monsters like HKs and Imps and Archviles. You could use instant pops to create some jumpscares as well.

 

Some final suggestions - Use ambient music to add to the atmosphere of the map (the lack of music was quite interesting to listen to). Also, I think HKs, Imps, Spectres, PEs, Revenants, and Archviles fit the best with the theme of the map, so you could design encounters around those. You could also extend some of the current encounters if possible so the map doesn't feel like one gimmick after another.

 

Overall, the map is certainly incomplete but I think it has some interesting ideas that could be developed further.

[THMG]

Spoiler

50 minutes ago, SGS Man said:

@THMG I Maxed the map. Some thoughts...

 

+ The theme and atmosphere are carried out well. The usage of friction and deep water certainly add character to the map.

+ The Hell Knights are fairly well used, especially in the beginning.

 

= I'm not sure if there was an exit. I know the map was incomplete so I wasn't expecting one.

 

- Ammo is rather awkwardly placed. The opening of the map delves into ammo starvation, but the deep water section has a lot of hidden ammo. This made the map feel extremely grindy while playing blind.

- Encounters are monotonous and/or gimmicky. Hell Knights are the only monsters present and rather than interesting usage, all of them end up as walls of meat. So you end up with one wall of meat on normal ground, one on high friction ground, and one in deep water.

- I could skip a lot of the return journey after the red key by using the fence to jump onto the outer ledge. This area also connects to the red lift, making the red key redundant.

 

Now for some suggestions regarding encounters that are already present -

 

1. I'd suggest you go for the ammo starvation route, given how the map flows right now. That could mean moving the ammo from the deep water to visible locations and reducing the amount of ammo. Or you could add a BFG early on, forcing the player to wait till it becomes useful.

2. Place a Green Armor somewhere early and make the secret plasma gun accessible early (although correct me if I missed something). The only way you can handle the onslaught of projectiles in the map's current state is if you grab the megasphere early. Or add more medikits.

3. Use other monsters to make gameplay more interesting. Maybe Spectres and Revenants instead of Hell Knights in the friction and deep water sections of the map. They move quite well and can pin the player down better than HKs. Plus using other enemies could allow for infighting, easing the burden of ammo starvation. For instance, the deep water section could be made "deeper" and filled only with Spectres, and in this case, the player would be able to see the hidden ammo fixing another one of the issues.

 

Regarding potential encounters...

 

1. That poison cloud thing could make for some interesting encounters later on. You've already shown it to the player as part of the map's progression. It would make sense to use it more. This could work well with encounters designed for the Chaingun.

2.  The creepers could be used to create a dense 'forest' with ambushes of monsters like HKs and Imps and Archviles. You could use instant pops to create some jumpscares as well.

 

Some final suggestions - Use ambient music to add to the atmosphere of the map (the lack of music was quite interesting to listen to). Also, I think HKs, Imps, Spectres, PEs, Revenants, and Archviles fit the best with the theme of the map, so you could design encounters around those. You could also extend some of the current encounters if possible so the map doesn't feel like one gimmick after another.

 

Overall, the map is certainly incomplete but I think it has some interesting ideas that could be developed further.

 

Thank you for all the feedback. Always helps to get someone else's perspective. As for the music, that's on me forgetting to update the mapinfo. It's supposed to be "They're going to get you" from I. I'm also considering completely redoing the map into a more linear/ rectangular shape while keeping most of the encounters ^{and also changing the name from ringworm to tapeworm accordingly}... the circle shape has been more than a bit limiting.

 

Also @Nevander I"m unsure about the weapons thing still... but the argument that custom weapons tend to be made for other maps entirely is a important one.

Edited December 17, 2017 by THMG

[Dexiaz]

5 hours ago, Voltcom9 said:

 I would like to see you create something for this project. Considering your contributions to the Doom community in the past it would be interesting to see what you'd make for this. Dood / Plutonia Simulator would be a great theme :)

Thank you so much, I'm really appreciate this! I'll do my best to not disappoint anyone and make an interesting map.

 

By the way, I'll take a slot, I have an idea for my map. BUT I want to ask. Is it possible to use a VERY BIG (tall) Cyberdemon? I mean, he is not listed in the accepted monsters. Can I create custom Cyberdemon for this? If not, I'll understand, that's not a big deal.

 

Theme of my map will be...khm, something like E2M8. I mean, marble stones, marble faces, open sky, hellish dry ground.

[riderr3]

17 hours ago, THMG said:

 

Also, I'm currently experiencing some pretty hard mapper's block on my own map, if anyone would be willing to play it in a heavily unfinished state, and tell me what you think of it so far, that'd be greatly appreciated. The areas I've circled are the ones that're giving me the most trouble in figuring out interesting things to do with.

 

You can add to this area some geometrical shapes to fill the emptiness. Maybe crates or some kind of pipes and moving mechanisms.

This screenshot from my another upcoming project is example how I fill the place by adding some kind of metal constructions, they also serve as cover from monsters behind the river when player revisit this place.

 

Spoiler

 

5 hours ago, DeXiaZ said:

Is it possible to use a VERY BIG (tall) Cyberdemon? I mean, he is not listed in the accepted monsters. Can I create custom Cyberdemon for this?

Did ZDoom format can resize sprites for particular map? Just curious.
 

Edited December 17, 2017 by riderr3

[DFF]

16 hours ago, SGS Man said:

 

Some final suggestions - Use ambient music to add to the atmosphere of the map (the lack of music was quite interesting to listen to). Also, I think HKs, Imps, Spectres, PEs, Revenants, and Archviles fit the best with the theme of the map, so you could design encounters around those. You could also extend some of the current encounters if possible so the map doesn't feel like one gimmick after another.

 

@THMG if you wanted to keep it relatively ambient but wanted a little something extra, i'd recommend the marsh track from powerslave: 

 

[Dexiaz]

2 hours ago, riderr3 said:

Did ZDoom format can resize sprites for particular map? Just curious.

No, it's not the Build Engine. It doesn't work this way here. It requires to create custom Cyberdemon with "scale" option inside the Decorate file.

[stonedbaroness]

1 hour ago, DeXiaZ said:

No, it's not the Build Engine. It doesn't work this way here. It requires to create custom Cyberdemon with "scale" option inside the Decorate file.

In UDMF you can scale the sprite without the decorate file, just doesn't change the hit box however

[stonedbaroness]

16 hours ago, THMG said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Thank you for all the feedback. Always helps to get someone else's perspective. As for the music, that's on me forgetting to update the mapinfo. It's supposed to be "They're going to get you" from I. I'm also considering completely redoing the map into a more linear/ rectangular shape while keeping most of the encounters ^{and also changing the name from ringworm to tapeworm accordingly}... the circle shape has been more than a bit limiting.

 

Also @Nevander I"m unsure about the weapons thing still... but the argument that custom weapons tend to be made for other maps entirely is a important one.

We're already using Realm 667 monsters , which blocks out a majority of possible mods already, so I think we should have custom weapons for the heck of it. It would be very nice and something new to us, we can always just go back and edit the maps to have vanilla things though and release it as a "Vaccinated" edition!

[Bauul]

4 hours ago, riderr3 said:

Did ZDoom format can resize sprites for particular map? Just curious.

Yes you can, it's in the Rendering options in Action/Tag/Misc. for the actor.  But it only changes the sprite rendered size, not the hitbox.  So you would want to be conscious oh how your newly sized monster interacted with the level.

[Havoc Crow]

Sorry, but I don't think I'll be able to contribute a map. You can remove me from the mappers' list.

[Spie812]

progress screenshot thingy

[Major Arlene]

After working with the map more and working through some various thematic quirks, I've decided to change my theme to be a Hellsing gore-fest. Giger is good stuff but won't work with what I have in mind. Perhaps I'll use Giger for a different project.

[Dexiaz]

20 hours ago, UAC-Janitor said:

doesn't change the hit box however

 

19 hours ago, Bauul said:

But it only changes the sprite rendered size, not the hitbox

Ow, that's sux. No way, I need a new properties too.

[Pegleg]

On 12/16/2017 at 2:19 PM, THMG said:

And hell, if we're doing custom HUDS and hubs, perhaps we could look at custom weapons for the whole mapset as well. I could easily put together a big resource .wad of items and weapons for mappers to use at their leisure. (Most of this would be yoinked directly from realm667, but if anyone else has ideas, I'll listen.)

 

For weapons, I'm currently thinking of having 1 weapon for each slot:

1. Railgun(Slot 6)
2. Flamethrower(Slot 5)
3.  Black Hole Generator (Slot 7)
4. Heavy Chaingun (Slot 4)
5. Nailgun (SG) (Slot 3)
6. Micro Uzi (Slot 2)
7. Double Bladed Chainsaw (Slot 1)

 

UPDATE: Nix on the monsters. I had no idea of their relative strengths. Custom weapons and the Key pack on realm667 will be all that's officially provided.

 

I checked the OP. There was no mention of custom weapons and the realm667 monsters were still listed. So what's the verdict on weapons and monsters?

[94's the best style]

I feel like the Royal variants from realm667 should stay, they're very useful for spicing up the knight theme. I especially like cyberbarons and quires,being much harder and much easier variants of the royals. (Plus you get infighting between them.)

 

[riderr3]

17 minutes ago, Voltcom9 said:

In my opinion, custom enemies would be fine but it would be better without the custom weapons. Most people who play with weapon mods would prefer to load their preferred weapon mods.

I'm also have same opinion. That is pretty enough.

[THMG]

1 hour ago, Voltcom9 said:

In my opinion, custom enemies would be fine but it would be better without the custom weapons. Most people who play with weapon mods would prefer to load their preferred weapon mods.

Yeah, this is the conclusion I've come to. The hell royalty variations in the OP along with a few I'll post links to soon are all we'll do.

[THMG]

If you're developing your map and are ^{too lazy to keep} having trouble keeping count of how many hell knights you've actually got in your map at any one time, here's a quick little counter print script I modified from an example on the zdoom wiki to do just that. 

script 4 OPEN
{
	int HK;
	while (TRUE)
	{
	HK=(ThingCount(T_HELLKNIGHT,0));
	Print(s:"There are ", d:HK, s:" Hell Knights left.");
		Delay(70);
		}
}

 

Edited December 19, 2017 by THMG : included my "spawn hellknights and spectres" script instead of the counter

[Bushpig2dope]

13 minutes ago, THMG said:

If you're developing your map and are ^{too lazy to keep} having trouble keeping count of how many hell knights you've actually got in your map at any one time, here's a quick little counter print script I modified from an example on the zdoom wiki to do just that. 

script 4 OPEN
{
	int HK;
	while (TRUE)
	{
	HK=(ThingCount(T_HELLKNIGHT,0));
	Print(s:"There are ", d:HK, s:" Hell Knights left.");
		Delay(70);
		}
}

 

Thanks boss, was wondering how I'd do that when I lost track

[Empyre]

In GZDoom Builder or Doom Builder 2, hit F3 for Find and Replace mode (or find it in the Mode menu), select Thing Type, and choose the thing you want to count and click Find, and it will tell you how many of that thing you have (and select them all).

[Nevander]

7 hours ago, THMG said:

here's a quick little counter print script

Hey that's pretty cool. I might do something like this in my map too and work it in with the map itself, story-wise.

[riderr3]

8 hours ago, THMG said:

If you're developing your map and are ^{too lazy to keep} having trouble keeping count of how many hell knights you've actually got in your map at any one time, here's a quick little counter print script I modified from an example on the zdoom wiki to do just that. 

script 4 OPEN
{
	int HK;
	while (TRUE)
	{
	HK=(ThingCount(T_HELLKNIGHT,0));
	Print(s:"There are ", d:HK, s:" Hell Knights left.");
		Delay(70);
		}
}

 

I'm using WadSpy tool for this. Also it's prints another statistics.

[stonedbaroness]

Currently re balancing the hell out of my map, here is some expected changes:

-No More Pain elementals!

-The Heliophants (Orange floatie things) Now start where the Cacodemons are; on the outside acid ocean, you can only alert them by shooting.

-Added a BFG 9000

-Moved the megasphere to the back where the pinkies are, by the lift

-Added more spots in the map

-Added invulnerability to take the place of the megasphere's original location

-Removed shotgun and Chaingun ammo; All Plasma and explosives baby!!

-Added much more detail around the level; including cool secrets and even a seperate room...! (Would it matter in the case of being vertically seperated?  @THMG What I mean is that its in the middle of the level, however you have to crouch and walk slowly into a hall thatll drop, then you come to a blood pool with a soulsphere; staying there for too long has proper consequences.)

-E1M8 Homeage by far

-Added berserk packs around

-added chaingunners that come out of a cool hallway..!

-Possible infight mayhem

-May tweak it more before beta release!

[Big Ol Billy]

15 hours ago, THMG said:

If you're developing your map and are ^{too lazy to keep} having trouble keeping count of how many hell knights you've actually got in your map at any one time, here's a quick little counter print script I modified from an example on the zdoom wiki to do just that. 

script 4 OPEN
{
	int HK;
	while (TRUE)
	{
	HK=(ThingCount(T_HELLKNIGHT,0));
	Print(s:"There are ", d:HK, s:" Hell Knights left.");
		Delay(70);
		}
}

 

 

This makes me wonder--should we have a hell knight counter for the player? Like, maybe for the entire megawad, even? Then you could actually see your progress towards definitively killing 4800 or whatever total HKs, level by level.

 

Alternately, might just be fun to have a one-off level where you actually have to kill all 150 to exit, with a counter to help. Hmmm.

[Pegleg]

15 minutes ago, Big Ol Billy said:

Alternately, might just be fun to have a one-off level where you actually have to kill all 150 to exit, with a counter to help. Hmmm.

Maybe that could be @Spie812's Icon of Sin level? It's already generating hell knights.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Pegleg : Add Spie812.

[Nevander]

56 minutes ago, Big Ol Billy said:

This makes me wonder--should we have a hell knight counter for the player?

 

Alternately, might just be fun to have a one-off level where you actually have to kill all 150 to exit, with a counter to help.

I was going to do this in my level regardless, since it adds to the theme.

 

Also I am starting to think maybe we should nix the rule about it being one continuous area. So many rules have changed, this one could change too because it's quite restricting to be honest. Doors and stuff should be allowed now, so we can make the best possible maps we can. We have no slot limits now, allowed to use UDMF, etc. Why not allow doors at this point?

 

In fact, the only real rules I think should matter are 150 Hell Knights per map (no more, no less) and 1 Megasphere (no more, no less).

 

It's not my project so I'm not trying to hijack it but I am simply stating my opinion at this stage of the development.