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Coraline

Features you would like to see in EDGE

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Okay, so got inspired by the GZDoom post :D

 

Since we are almost done with the bugfixes, its time to move onto features :) Anything from DDF to other game support (etc), would like to hear some suggestions ^_^

 

Thanks everyone for your time ^^

Edited by Coraline

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Here's a few points of interest listed in no particular order:

 

- An autoload (cfg or skins folder which would load wads, pk3, epk files automatically whenever launching 3dge)

- Full UDMF support

- Full ROTT support

- Decorate support (not sure if this is possible or not)

- MP3 and OGG music support

- a tech demo utilizing several added features to draw more map makers into using 3DGE.

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  • variables and an IF > THEN > ELSE structure in RTS
  • scripts that can execute upon player death (as opposed to this rendering all scripts inactive)
  • define multiple light textures (like the square ones I used in SLaVE)
  • UDMF, but have semi-legacy support for RTS (if possible)
  • define translucent sprites with different blend modes (screen, multiply, etc)

This is all I can think of OTOH.

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On 12/17/2017 at 6:28 PM, Voltcom9 said:

Here's a few points of interest listed in no particular order:

 

- An autoload (cfg or skins folder which would load wads, pk3, epk files automatically whenever launching 3dge)

- Full UDMF support

- Full ROTT support

- Decorate support (not sure if this is possible or not)

- MP3 and OGG music support

- a tech demo utilizing several added features to draw more map makers into using 3DGE.

  • Autoload is supported on Dreamcast through cfg files -- I am porting this over very soon. =)
  • Full UDMF support will come in time, right now we are still mapping more support -- for now the existing UDMF namespaces should be used, EDGE will eventually get one of its own ^_^
  • Full ROTT support will also come, hopefully sooner than later =)
  • DECORATE was planned a long time ago and I never got around to it. Not sure if it's worth it at this point, maybe some sort of "lite" parser...hmm..
  • EDGE has OGG support already, but MP3 was dropped a long time ago over patent/licensing issues. To use OGGs (either in music or sounds), just pop it in your WAD, or in the /sounds || /music namespace inside of an EPK (Edge PaK File, which is a ZIP container) or PK3. You would define it the same way as you would define any other sound. Then, you should define the sound effect in DDFSFX just like every other sound, and EDGE will be able to distinguish based on the type of sound (WAV/RIFF/OGG/etc). For music, just pop the OGG in /music and use DDFPLAY (playlist.ddf) to define the music entry, for example:

    [67] MUSICINFO=MUS:LUMP:"D_BUNNY"; // regular MUS/MIDI


    // EDGE Title

    [66] MUSICINFO=OGG:LUMP:"O_EDGTTL"; // notice how OGG has replaced MUS -- that's all that is needed there. You can reference PLAYLIST on the EDGEWiki for more technical information and example.

 

On 12/17/2017 at 7:24 PM, YukiRaven said:

Opus music/sound support

More complete wiki documentation

3d point lights (if they don't exist)

  • OPUS is supported on the Dreamcast right now for Sounds/Music -- uses libOpus, so it shouldn't be hard to port it to a modern version of libopus and carry it over. ^_^
  • Wiki documentation is also concurrently being worked on. I know it needs a lot more work, just hard to stretch myself several directions, but it will come in time =)
  • 3D Point Lights? I assume that uses directional-based lighting (E.G. not a sphere PNG)? We already have vertex lighting on 3D models, I'll check that out =)
15 hours ago, Jayextee said:
  • variables and an IF > THEN > ELSE structure in RTS
  • scripts that can execute upon player death (as opposed to this rendering all scripts inactive)
  • define multiple light textures (like the square ones I used in SLaVE)
  • UDMF, but have semi-legacy support for RTS (if possible)
  • define translucent sprites with different blend modes (screen, multiply, etc)

This is all I can think of OTOH.

  • RTS is something I really need to add onto. The revised structure sounds interesting, and I'll see about defining variables as well. If COAL can do it, so can RTS =)
  • Scripts that execute upon player death can be done rather than having all scripts end once the player dies (or I can create a new function) -- will do that soon. Wasn't aware it was still like that, but it can be easily changed and/or improved upon. ^_^
  • Multiple d.light textures were discussed and drafted out, but we haven't touched it yet. One day we will continue our work on that =)
  • UDMF is still needing additions, and I have not tested if RTS scripts still work with it (but they should technically work, I should test that).
  • Different blend modes is definitely a possibility. The new Test3 has a couple of CVARS for different blend modes (global), but I'm sure I can add something into IMAGES.DDF that can define a per-image blend mode =)

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3 minutes ago, Coraline said:

3D Point Lights? I assume that uses directional-based lighting (E.G. not a sphere PNG)? We already have vertex lighting on 3D models, I'll check that out =)

No, I kinda meant like the Dynamic Point Light things that GZDoom has. I keep thinking I've seen them in 3dge videos, but I couldn't tell for sure.

 

Though actually, that reminds me of another suggestion. Doomsday has support for dynamic light maps, where a grayscale image is projected from a light source. I think that's what you just mentioned in your reply. That would be _very_ cool.

 

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6 hours ago, YukiRaven said:

a grayscale image is projected from a light source

 

This is exactly what 3DGE does. I was glad to find it when making SLaVE because I made it a solid square, giving the thing a unique lighting aesthetic; I went in wanting to do 'something' with lights, unsure what that something was until I found this. :D

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On 12/18/2017 at 11:49 PM, Coraline said:
  • Full ROTT support will also come, hopefully sooner than later =)

Is this the ROTT I'm thinking of? I hope so, that way I can stop using WinROTT.

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The MP3 patents finally expired so you can include a decoder again if you wished

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20 hours ago, Nevander said:

Is this the ROTT I'm thinking of? I hope so, that way I can stop using WinROTT.

Yes it is :-) if you go into my user feed, I've posted some progress shots of it so far. While it will all be interpreted with RTS/DDF/COAL, it will also force EDGE to update with some newer features (such as player classes, which will also retroactively help with Hexen). :-)

6 hours ago, Jon said:

The MP3 patents finally expired so you can include a decoder again if you wished

Oh cool! Not sure if I knew that or not, probably forgot. I can look into it - any good libraries to help decode? I don't remember what EDGE 1.27 used, but its probably too out-of-date to reintroduce into EDGE 2.1.0. :S

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13 hours ago, YukiRaven said:

LAME is still a good library. There's also libmad I think.

 

LAME is for encoding, for decoding there is libmad and mpg123.

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Also ffmpeg, but I can't vouch for it as a library. I love their utility.

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On 12/25/2017 at 6:27 PM, DoomsdayNinja84 said:

How about pk3 support? It's not a huge deal, but it would make some things easier.

 

PK3 is supported in the official 2.1.0-Test3 release. See this tutorial page on the EDGEWiki for a guide. We also highly recommend you name the extension as an EPK (EDGE PacKage), which should be recognized by SLADE with their next release as well. All the same, PK3 works just fine, but EPK is recommended so EDGE-specific mods cannot be used by other source ports, to avoid confusion.

 

You can see an example of how the directory structures are set up if you open up edge.epk in 7-zip or another utility (or you can rename the EPK extension to something the current versions of SLADE can open up, such as pk3).

 

On 12/26/2017 at 5:45 AM, Julian Nechaevsky said:

Just one word: BRIGHTMAPS!

 

They are coming, as soon as I fix up some GL rendering/batching stuff first. ^_^

 

On 12/26/2017 at 6:34 AM, riderr3 said:

Exclusive features which other source ports do not have.

You have to be specific here. EDGE already has niche features that other ports do not have. =)

Edited by Coraline : links

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2 hours ago, Coraline said:

You have to be specific here. EDGE already has niche features that other ports do not have. =)

It's discussed before but I can not find the thread...

What about option to show mini-automap displayed right in HUD? In corner of screen like radar in ZDaemon. Especially in modern resolutions there is many space on screen.

It can be only "cosmetic" effect, but how it's difficult to implement?

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I've been thinking and looking back on some of these older threads - I had a question of user preference.

 

I've seen some people say DDF is "primitive" in the way it is written and "confusing". I've been toying with changing the style of it, namely using curly braces to open and close, converting stuff to lowercase - kind of like how DECORATE is written.

 

Anyone interested in that or is the current style fine? It hasn't changed since 1998, really.

 

I want to change up RTS to use curly braces for sure (better readability), but if anyone wants to see this for DDF then it could be a possibility.

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I like the current style as-is and find DECORATE confusing. I may not be the model user feedback experience on this one though.

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19 hours ago, Jayextee said:

I like the current style as-is and find DECORATE confusing. I may not be the model user feedback experience on this one though.

But you are a core EDGE user, so your opinion matters more than people who have not, or rarely use, the source port. Well, that saves me a bit of draft work then :-)

 

Did you mention at one point that RTS could use a style upgrade? Or maybe I'm mixing memories up :S

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7 minutes ago, Coraline said:

Did you mention at one point that RTS could use a style upgrade?


I'd like to see variables fuel an IF > THEN [> ELSE] sorta structure, sure. If possible, working in a way to use specific entities' values (health, position, state) for the IF part of that could make RTS really versatile IMO.

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ah, that's right! I'll start drafting out how that could potentially work in the next few weeks, I've been working tons of overtime at the hospital so not much time for EDGE between that and Violet. .

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Quote
On ‎12‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 0:11 PM, Coraline said:

PK3 is supported in the official 2.1.0-Test3 release. See this tutorial page on the EDGEWiki for a guide. We also highly recommend you name the extension as an EPK (EDGE PacKage), which should be recognized by SLADE with their next release as well. All the same, PK3 works just fine, but EPK is recommended so EDGE-specific mods cannot be used by other source ports, to avoid confusion.

 

You can see an example of how the directory structures are set up if you open up edge.epk in 7-zip or another utility (or you can rename the EPK extension to something the current versions of SLADE can open up, such as pk3).

I tried to download Test3 from that link and I got the error "EDGE-2.1.0-Test3-Win32.7z couldn't be downloaded", I tried it several times. I searched the web for others having this problem and for an official Edge support page. I only found the closed forums. Do you know why I might be having trouble downloading it and is there a current forum or page for general Edge support? Thank you.

 

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It is most likely related to this issue:

 

https://github.com/3dfxdev/hyper3DGE/issues/52

 

Try disabling your antivirus so you can download it. It is a false-positive and not sure why it occurs, seeing as the crash reporter comes from Eternity, which doesn't trigger those programs (AVG, Avast). I use MalwareBytes, but again, you will most likely need to disable it temporarily. 

 

The EDGE forums are here for help and support. We also share a Discord server with ZDoom if you ever need live help or support, I'm always active in there as well as some of the other EDGE developers.

 

Also, if there is any Linux developers that wouldn't mind lending us a hand - the engine compiles and runs. but there is no video output. Thinking its related to OpenGL. If you know how to debug such a thing, please let me know!

Edited by Coraline : Linux tidbit

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On ‎1‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 8:09 PM, Coraline said:

It is most likely related to this issue:

 

https://github.com/3dfxdev/hyper3DGE/issues/52

 

Try disabling your antivirus so you can download it. It is a false-positive and not sure why it occurs, seeing as the crash reporter comes from Eternity, which doesn't trigger those programs (AVG, Avast). I use MalwareBytes, but again, you will most likely need to disable it temporarily. 

 

The EDGE forums are here for help and support. We also share a Discord server with ZDoom if you ever need live help or support, I'm always active in there as well as some of the other EDGE developers.

I was able to download it through a different browser. Thank you for your help and for the information! I really like EDGE and look forward to future updates. 

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I dunno if ROTT mode will support user-created ROTT maps and things like z-axis like in Doom.

But I think if full ROTT support is done, EDGE will be packed with new features.

I don't know exactly if it will happen or not.

From Wikipedia:

Quote

The engine is an enhanced variant of the Wolfenstein 3D engine. The level design is chiefly characterized by 90 degree walls and unvarying floor and ceiling heights in individual maps, limitations that are vestiges of the Wolfenstein 3D engine. However, the Rise of the Triad engine pioneered myriad features which would be found in many later games, such as panoramic skies, simulated dynamic lighting, fog, bullet holes, breakable glass walls, and level-over-level environments (made possible by "gravitational anomaly disks", suspended objects that collectively form stairs, floors, etc.). The level layouts were created with Tile Editor version 5 (TED5), which was also released with "Extreme Rise of the Triad" for user to customize their own maps.

Maybe it is possible to support Wolf3D or not?

It is just my thinking and nothing more. So they might feel overkill and end up being rejected.

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