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hardcore_gamer

Why not just create an entirely new engine for Doom?

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38 minutes ago, Da Werecat said:

And how's the performance in that mod?

 

This. Sure, you can create something like that mod and it will "run", but it won't run very well.

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2 hours ago, hardcore_gamer said:

 

This. Sure, you can create something like that mod and it will "run", but it won't run very well.

... you say, despite the post you're responding to being a genuine question and you acting like it proves your point despite no actual information relevant to said point being shared at all.

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I got the impression that the question was rhetorical, and the mod running not very well was the obvious answer there.

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Well, it was kinda rhetorical, because I strongly suspect that it runs worse than it looks, as is the case with pretty much anything based on Doom that goes beyond a certain threshold of simplicity. And that mod goes way beyond.

 

But I don't know for sure.

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Fact of the matter is the doom engine was never designed to handle realistic modern graphics. Yes modders have been able to hack it into something that sort of looks modern but it can't and won't handle them anywhere near as well as actual modern graphics engines do because it isn't build from the ground up to handle modern graphics. The only reason this is rarely a problem is because of how few mods there are where this even matters that much.

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what does the newer id techs have to do with the classic doom engine?

 

anyways, if you're trying to handle modern graphics, get this: a good idea is to use a modern 3d engine in favor of a messy 2.5D engine that's somehow extended to support modern graphics. It'll be easier and if you still want to do a 2.5d content pipeline, hey, that option's there.

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16 minutes ago, InsanityBringer said:

what does the newer id techs have to do with the classic doom engine?

Still Doom engines (with the exception of RAGE But that's something else) and they were designed for better handling of realistic environments.

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sure but they're entirely divorced from the original Doom engine at this point, which was quite clearly what was being talked about.

 

(I say this, but I'm sure the moment RAGE is open-sourced, someone will find the NewChaseDir function buried somewhere in there)

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On 12/23/2017 at 5:27 PM, hardcore_gamer said:

So it's now possible to make and sell Doom engine games? 

I mean, yes? I told you exactly this several months ago. Remember?

 

I don't know how many times I need to keep repeating this until you get the message. You can make and sell games based on Doom engine. You can sell the Doom source code. That's been true since 1999.

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I've been working on an entirely new 2.5D engine for years, and it's probably going to take me some more years before anything vaguely playable could be made on it. My goal is to make mapping as easy and intuitive as possible while supporting features like overlapping room over room, horizontally moving map geometry, physically linked disjoint structures, and maximally powerful scripting. I focus on designing data formats suitable to effectively support those features, and I make separate proof of concept implementations of all related ideas I have. Only then I'd focus on reimplementing them all in one program, the actual engine.

 

This strategy, along with the fact that I only work on it when I feel like it, may very well be the reason why it's taking me so long, but I don't mind. I value the mere potential to easily make games that play like today's quality Doom wads but aren't influenced by Doom engine's limitations. My motivation is about trying to make my vision come into reality and myself learning along the way. Getting it done soon, or seeing people actually making games on the engine once it's made, would all be just a nice bonus, not a necessity for me, as I feel it.

Edited by scifista42
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30 minutes ago, scifista42 said:

I've been working on an entirely new 2.5D engine for years, and it's probably going to take me some more years before anything vaguely playable could be made on it. My goal is to make mapping as easy and intuitive as possible while supporting features like overlapping room over room, horizontally moving map geometry, physically linked disjoint structures, and maximally powerful scripting. I focus on designing data formats suitable to effectively support those features, and I make separate proof of concept implementations of all related ideas I have. Only then I'd focus on reimplementing them all in one program, the actual engine. This strategy, along with the fact that I only work on it when I feel like it, may very well be the reason why it's taking me so long, but I don't mind. I value the mere potential to easily make games that play like today's quality Doom wads but aren't influenced by Doom engine's limitations. My motivation is about trying to make my vision come into reality and myself learning along the way. Getting it done soon, or seeing people actually making games on the engine once it's made, would all be just a nice bonus, not a necessity for me, as I feel it.

is

 

is this a copypasta

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1 hour ago, fraggle said:

I mean, yes? I told you exactly this several months ago. Remember?

 

I don't know how many times I need to keep repeating this until you get the message. You can make and sell games based on Doom engine. You can sell the Doom source code. That's been true since 1999.

 

Yes but I remembered hearing something along the lines of only the original Doom engine being free of copyright and not all the source ports, the later of which you need if you want to actually make games on a modern OS.

 

If it's now possible to make games with gzdoom then why isn't it that there aren't more indies using it? Are they simply not aware that they can or do they just don't care and would rather use something like Unity?

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5 minutes ago, hardcore_gamer said:

If it's now possible to make games with gzdoom then why isn't it that there aren't more indies using it? Are they simply not aware that they can or do they just don't care and would rather use something like Unity?

You don't exactly have much of a grasp on how obscure the Doom community is, do you?

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8 minutes ago, hardcore_gamer said:

do they just don't care and would rather use something like Unity?

Yes

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21 minutes ago, Arctangent said:

is

 

is this a copypasta

No, it was a genuine post. What did seem wrong about it?

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11 minutes ago, hardcore_gamer said:

If it's now possible to make games with gzdoom then why isn't it that there aren't more indies using it? Are they simply not aware that they can or do they just don't care and would rather use something like Unity?

It's actually much more significant workload to make a game using GZDoom than an engine made for making games. (G)ZDoom wasn't made for making games, it was made for modding doom.

 

The other side of it is yes; it isn't common knowledge that GZDoom is capable of making games. It's never in the discussion for "what engine should we use". 

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Just now, scifista42 said:

No, it was a genuine post. What did seem wrong about it?

I wouldn't say "wrong," but the lack of linebreaks combined with the sort of pie-in-the-sky, to-good-to-be-true vibe it gives off really seems like something you'd see spammed on reddit or in Youtube comments to mock starry-eyed beginner programmers that don't ever get anything done.

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I think that ultimately what I would really want out of a doom engine, ideally, is already entirely possible in quake 1, but I don't feel like learning all the tools, and I would have to spend a lot of effort "porting" things over I think. I just want doom with level design capabilities like quake, and lighting capabilities like quake. am I wrong in thinking that modern quake would already offer everything else we'd want?

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16 minutes ago, Tango said:

I think that ultimately what I would really want out of a doom engine, ideally, is already entirely possible in quake 1, but I don't feel like learning all the tools, and I would have to spend a lot of effort "porting" things over I think. I just want doom with level design capabilities like quake, and lighting capabilities like quake. am I wrong in thinking that modern quake would already offer everything else we'd want?

 

Quake engine games look utterly horrible to me. It's the whole reason I lost interest in Quake mapping. I recently played Arcane dimensions for Quake and was stunned by how bad the game looked even in-spite of how well designed the levels were. Prior to that I always felt that the problem was merely that the original Quake levels had merely just not aged well but no the game itself just looks like arse. Quake is honestly the worst looking game I have ever seen safe maybe for some horrible looking games on the N64 and PS1.

 

Even the lightning I honestly feel is better in Gzdoom than in Quake.

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4 hours ago, hardcore_gamer said:

Yes but I remembered hearing something along the lines of only the original Doom engine being free of copyright and not all the source ports, the later of which you need if you want to actually make games on a modern OS.

I'd normally correct the deeply confused misconceptions you're expressing here, but given that you don't seem to want to read or understand anything, I don't think I'll bother.

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4 hours ago, hardcore_gamer said:

 

Quake engine games look utterly horrible to me. It's the whole reason I lost interest in Quake mapping. I recently played Arcane dimensions for Quake and was stunned by how bad the game looked even in-spite of how well designed the levels were. Prior to that I always felt that the problem was merely that the original Quake levels had merely just not aged well but no the game itself just looks like arse. Quake is honestly the worst looking game I have ever seen safe maybe for some horrible looking games on the N64 and PS1.

 

Even the lightning I honestly feel is better in Gzdoom than in Quake.

wat da fuq?! you're insane dude. the lighting alone in quake is miles better to me. otherwise it "looks" basically the same to me as doom, just with different assets and maps. lighting in doom can definitely be done really well, but sector lighting is such a hassle and is quite limited, and dynamic lights in doom seem way more limited than what quake is capable of. I just want to make some pretty geometry and throw some lights in there that automatically look good, and I don't feel like I can do this in doom

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5 hours ago, hardcore_gamer said:

 

Quake engine games look utterly horrible to me. It's the whole reason I lost interest in Quake mapping. I recently played Arcane dimensions for Quake and was stunned by how bad the game looked even in-spite of how well designed the levels were. Prior to that I always felt that the problem was merely that the original Quake levels had merely just not aged well but no the game itself just looks like arse. Quake is honestly the worst looking game I have ever seen safe maybe for some horrible looking games on the N64 and PS1.

 

Even the lightning I honestly feel is better in Gzdoom than in Quake.

Quake looks bad and has worse lighting than GZDoom? I Guess you really live up to your custom title ah.

 

The color mostly consist of browns and blues but i wouldn't call Qauke ugly.

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