On 12/31/2017 at 7:32 AM, ATP2555 said:

There's seems to be a trend in iD universe games where the enemies with shotguns can fire them automatically, whereas the player can only fire in pump-action.

Which game would that be? I'm curious. In Doom the Sergeants pause, and often move between shots, so even though they didn't animate the pumping, there's a break between firing. In Quake the shotgunners pause between shots and you can hear them pump their shotgun. In Quake 2 the soldiers with shotguns implanted in their arm actually have an animation where they rack the slide between every shot. In Doom 3 the Z-sec shotgun guys break for at least a second in between shots, I can't recall if they had a pump animation or not, but there was a break. I'm not sure about Rage, I didn't play all that much of it. But I've never seen an enemy with an automatic shotgun in an id game.

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Disappearing corpses. That is all. 

 

But seriously, while the art direction is very much inspired by the classic games (even Doom 64 gets some love), it really doesn’t quite have the Gigeresque spirit that the original game was crawling with. 

 

Additionally, while the arenas were fairly understandable, the environments got increasingly more “gamey,” meaning that the UAC bases don’t feel like actual people lived and worked in them, and the Hell levels feel more confined than chaotic. Titan’s Realm/Necropolis and the Lazarus Labs/VEGA Processing are pretty much the worst offenders here. 

 

Seriously, I was ecstatic when I found that in New Colossus, enemy corpses not only had left blood pools and better impact marks, there were also levels that Doom 2016 desperately needed, like anything on the Venus base!

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One of my (very few) issues with DOOM is that it doesn't feel very "Doom" at some points; specifically, during the platforming sections, with the double-jumping and whatnot. For me, though, this isn't exactly a major issuesince it's not exactly the main focus (I dunno if I'm making sense here :p)

 

3 hours ago, Man of Doom said:

Disappearing corpses.

My second issue. I would've liked to have had the corpses stay when you kill them, but iirc permanent corpses would impact performance because of the amount of collision-checking there would need to be done for the ragdolls. I don't know if I'm remembering this correctly or if I'm even saying it right, so if I'm wrong, someone please tell me.

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Ragdoll physics can easily be turned off moments after the Physics body hit a solid ground, as for the level of detail Models seemed retopologized so I don't think they would affect the perfomance very badly, the latter is purely speculation though, a stress test on the engine with the same models would give a better idea to why they decided to make corpses disappear.

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1.  Glory Kills - I turned it off but the monsters would still become invulnerable while staggered.

2.  Lack of new monsters in later levels - the monster flow is great up to the the second visit to hell.  The game needed more monster types/variants.

3.  The level design was great, but also fell victim to the "arena" style especially in later levels.

4.  Console limitations plaguing the pc version.  This was mostly seen in SnapMap and MP

5.  The game ended, and ID hasn't said a thing about SP DLC.

6.  Lame boss battles (esp the Hell Gaurd).  Also, only 1 Cyberdemon after seeing multiple in promotional material.

 

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1 hour ago, Zemini said:

1.  Glory Kills - I turned it off but the monsters would still become invulnerable while staggered.

2.  Lack of new monsters in later levels - the monster flow is great up to the the second visit to hell.  The game needed more monster types/variants.

3.  The level design was great, but also fell victim to the "arena" style especially in later levels.

4.  Console limitations plaguing the pc version.  This was mostly seen in SnapMap and MP

5.  The game ended, and ID hasn't said a thing about SP DLC.

6.  Lame boss battles (esp the Hell Gaurd).  Also, only 1 Cyberdemon after seeing multiple in promotional material.

 

 

There were supposed to be more Cyberdemons but got cut out of the game.

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I'd say the MP was a right shitshow until they fixed it much later down the line, this was a little too late in my opinion and the MP should've shipped like it is now.

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Still not a fan of Matchmaking and Loadouts, I especially hate the players who start with Rocket Launchers within their loadouts.

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12 minutes ago, dmg_64 said:

Still not a fan of Matchmaking and Loadouts, I especially hate the players who start with Rocket Launchers within their loadouts.

Dual shotguns are much worse, much worse.

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Almost everything that I can think of has been said.

 

I will point out that I'm disappointed in the load times of Snapmap, how long it took to create strict sp maps with no limits, the poor custom map navigation that promotes older unrefined and useless point farming maps. Finally, that there are no Bosses or Summoner monsters to play with.

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It seems to me that SnapMap should have a "pro" mode you can switch to, if you want to more in-depth stuff.

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18 hours ago, Man of Doom said:

But seriously, while the art direction is very much inspired by the classic games (even Doom 64 gets some love), it really doesn’t quite have the Gigeresque spirit that the original game was crawling with. 

 

I'm guessing the lack of Giger'esque stuff was deliberate; they wanted to make this "horror for the whole family", so while they wanted the "horror" to convey the sense that yes, Demons = BAD, they didn't actually want the game to be scary or creepy.

Giger'esque stuff tends to be disturbing, which I figure would have gone against Id's objective for this game.

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Often times while reading the lore I felt like we were playing the aftermath of a much more interesting story. Everything with the Night Sentinels, the Wraiths, The Hell Priests, the Wretch, the huge battle against the Titan. Hell, using the Crucible, as I'm pretty sure it was implied the Slayer had used it before. All of that went on, and instead we're stuck doing cleanup duty cause some nerds were poking around in Hell. 

 

A prequel game would be pretty sweet. 

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On 1/22/2018 at 1:06 PM, dmg_64 said:

Ragdoll physics can easily be turned off moments after the Physics body hit a solid ground, as for the level of detail Models seemed retopologized so I don't think they would affect the perfomance very badly, the latter is purely speculation though, a stress test on the engine with the same models would give a better idea to why they decided to make corpses disappear.

 

This may have to do with the fact that physics have been enabled for every object in the game that isn't part of the environment. This ranges from chairs and fire extinguishers, to the corpses of various UAC scientists/workers. In fact, you can actually choose to shoot human corpses and they'll lose limbs like the demons.

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A few more flaws (some debatable, some a little nitpicky) I was recently reminded of:

 

- The Challenges often require you to take 'unnecessary' risks that take you out of the experience of actually trying to survive. It's a cool idea from a replayability aspect, but it is a bit immersion breaking.

 

- The Secret level lever pulling animation is too damned long. Isn't the Doom Slayer supposed to have super-Human strength? Why then does he even have to struggle with pulling the levers?

 

- As cool as Hell is and as much as each Hell map has unique details and qualities that are unique to said map, the overall impression of Hell is very samey: bunch of rock caves and ancient ruins, lots of skulls and bones and ancient, impaled corpses. I found the various techbase facilities more obviously distinctive than the Hell levels, even if they do ensure some indoor vs. outdoor variety in Hell's level themes.

 

- The high-tech Labs theme is slightly underused, even if it is used here and there in some of the industrial-themed maps. This is a nitpick, but it is one that occasionally shows up in the back of my head, so I might as well mention it.

 

- The Lost Souls manage to be even more annoying than the original ones. Maybe I just suck, but I find them nearly impossible to dodge if I'm in the middle of a massive battle and they suddenly spawn in somewhere where I don't have eyes on them. Feels a little cheap when used like that.

 

- Possible Spoiler:

Spoiler

The story does a piss-poor job at explaining why rupturing an "Argent Accumulator" somehow opens a portal to Hell (as in: it doesn't explain it at all). While leaving some of the story stuff ambiguous works well (who the Doom Slayer is, how and why he can absorb Hell energy with no ill effects, etc.), this one feels more like a plot hole that just confuses me.

This "plot device" happens twice in the game: Olivia uses one at the top of the Argent Tower to open a portal to Hell (I'm guessing that she was able to drill halfway into Hell before the Doom Slayer disabled the Tower and the ruptured accumulator just blew the final "chunk" away) and then later, the Doom Slayer rips out an accumulator from the Cyberdemon, ruptures it and it somehow transports him and the Cyberdemon to the part of Hell where he needs to be.... um...ok...

 

Generally, transference between Mars and Hell is not really explained in the story and it is rather off-putting. I like the story better than the Doom 3 story overall, but Doom 3 did explain the Hell gates better, or at least set them up better.

 

- The Chaingun is rather disappointing until you get the Mobile Turret mod. For such a high-ranking weapon, it does come across as rather inefficient and under-powered, not to mention that its lore suggests that it's a literal portable Autocannon (even without the Mobile Turret mod), but it doesn't come across in gameplay (its bullets feel only slightly more powerful than those of the HAR).

Later upgrades gives it kind of a disappointing pew-pew firing sound if you're using the Gatling Rotator mod, which is a bit of a shame because its default sound before that upgrade is decent.

I'm really hoping the sequel has a better chaingun.

 

- The Plasma Rifle lacks upgrades for its primary fire mode. Both of its mods are invaluable and prevent the weapon from being useless, but its regular fire feels almost kind of redundant in the late game.

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Speaking of plot, I don't like that I didn't really give two shits about it. There's too many moving parts and yet none of them are explained very well. There's some cool ideas—the UAC being a cult, the concept of harvesting Hell's energy, a cyborg containing a copy of a human consciousness, the player being some kind of supernatural warrior—but neither the cutscenes or the lengthy codex entries really caught me interest. I feel like this could have been presented with more cohesion and direction.

 

Oh, and @dsm, I'm not so sure that "horror for the whole family" was the aim here. I think it's more like "Alien" versus "Aliens." The former used quite a bit of Giger's designs and was more of a slow burner, while the latter was more action packed and had no direct involvement from Giger. Doom '16 feels a bit like that, where some of the original game's elements were deemphasized in favor of increased action. It's a much more kinetic experience, one that would be hindered by moody horror elements. I'm really hoping the sequel will have more of the vibes that made Doom 3 and Doom 64 memorable.

Edited by GoatLord
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4 hours ago, GoatLord said:

I'm not so sure that "horror for the whole family" was the aim here. I think it's more like "Alien" versus "Aliens." The former used quite a bit of Giger's designs and was more of a slow burner, while the latter was more action packed and had no direct involvement from Giger. Doom '16 feels a bit like that, where some of the original game's elements were deemphasized in favor of increased action.

I was really paraphrasing Hugo Martin in the NoClip Documentary "Doom Resurrected", in which he pretty much stated that they didn't want the game to be disturbing and he says something about "Horror for the whole family". I recommend you watch it if you haven't already as it's pretty interesting.

 

DOOM Resurrected Part 1

 

DOOM Resurrected Part 2

 

DOOM Resurrected Part 3

 

I agree that the result is a bit like you said; analogous to Alien (Doom 1993) and Aliens (Doom 2016).

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While Doom '16 was great in general (I loved how the designers replicated the more intense mechanics of Brutal Doom, since I still haven't gotten around to actually playing that), in my opinion it would have been nice if some enemies from Doom 3 were included, such as the Trites and Cherubs. I also like the Doom 3 version of the pinky demon. Say what you want about it, I know Doom 3 had flaws, but I couldn't help but want to see some of that in the fourth installment.

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