Brutal Doom wins mod of the year on Mod DB

[Doomkid]

3 hours ago, Kaal979 said:

BrutalDoom though has much potential

to keep ZDaemon servers empty! 

ZDaemon is really damn fun so this sounds like a bad thing, if anything.

[Cynical]

 

3 hours ago, Linguica said:

It isn't "finished" so it hasn't even been eligible yet.

That didn't stop Scythe 2, Deus Vult II, or either BtSX episode.

[Spectre01]

I believe Mark posted last year that he wanted to finish the megawad first before it gets considered. Which is also why it's a good idea to hold off any DWMC playthroughs until a "final" release.

[Linguica]

1 hour ago, Cynical said:

That didn't stop Scythe 2, Deus Vult II, or either BtSX episode.

But unlike all of those, which were a released in a "here, this is more or less done" state, BD Starter Pack / Extermination Day has always been explicitly labeled as a work in progress that was going to see significant updates before it is deemed "complete".

[scalliano]

On 12/31/2017 at 1:18 AM, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

I am still waiting for the names of these alleged uncredited people to show up.

Hello :)

[vinnie245]

20 hours ago, scalliano said:

Hello :)

Wheres the complete version of Threshold of Pain 2

[Pirx]

On 12/29/2017 at 0:12 PM, Memfis said:

This is actually a good thing for the community.

 

this. whether one likes bd and / or its creator, making doom more popular is a good thing.

[dew]

On 1/1/2018 at 0:59 AM, Linguica said:

But unlike all of those, which were a released in a "here, this is more or less done" state, BD Starter Pack / Extermination Day has always been explicitly labeled as a work in progress that was going to see significant updates before it is deemed "complete".

Seriously, are these people suggesting we're supposed to award a project that nicks maps from Freedoom? That's beyond insulting.

[jazzmaster9]

2 hours ago, dew said:

Seriously, are these people suggesting we're supposed to award a project that nicks maps from Freedoom? That's beyond insulting.

Those freedoom maps are placeholders IIRC.

[dew]

12 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

Those freedoom maps are placeholders IIRC.

Thank you for perfectly explaining why Brutal Doom the Campaign is not eligible to even consider for a Cacoward.

[jazzmaster9]

1 minute ago, dew said:

Thank you for perfectly explaining why Brutal Doom the Campaign is not eligible to even consider for a Cacoward.

Well not yet atleast. I see a lot of potential in it.

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

On 1/1/2018 at 0:54 AM, scalliano said:

Hello :)

I will get your name on the next build.
 

3 hours ago, dew said:

Seriously, are these people suggesting we're supposed to award a project that nicks maps from Freedoom? That's beyond insulting.

Being unable to understand they are placeholders is beyond insulting. I Refused a cacoward nomination last year for this very reason.

[Chezza]

4 hours ago, dew said:

Seriously, are these people suggesting we're supposed to award a project that nicks maps from Freedoom? That's beyond insulting.

Let's not get into another BD debate.

 

Conclude:

1. Sergeant_Mark should put more effort with including credit to others in a timely manner

2. If we are all gonna be so protective of resources to the extent that it will prevent ambitious mods like BD from existing, then we can miss out on good content. Like it or not, Mark's actions has resulted in work thousands of us enjoyed for many hours

[Edward850]

54 minutes ago, Chezza said:

2. If we are all gonna be so protective of resources to the extent that it will prevent ambitious mods like BD from existing, then we can miss out on good content. Like it or not, Mark's actions has resulted in work thousands of us enjoyed for many hours

This is the cop-out argument of "you shouldn't mind if I rehost your art (without asking and stripping out your signature), it's giving your art exposure!", people would prefer to be credited for their work straight up. And if it's good, show who made it because that's what they deserve at the absolute least.

 

To put it in a different perspective, remember that modding Doom is another skill you can put in a portfolio for potential employers. People here don't just make content for fun, but also for that exposure so they have something note worthy to show for, and if you are just taking that content without proper and appropriate accreditation, you are actually stealing that exposure directly from that person. Employers can actually look at a mod and go "now who made this music/sound effect/sprite work/whatever", and if all they see is one name that hoovered up anything and everything...

Edited January 2, 2018 by Edward850

[GamingMarine]

2 hours ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

Being unable to understand they are placeholders is beyond insulting. I Refused a cacoward nomination last year for this very reason.

Refused a Cacoward?

Unrelated to this topic, but, I didn't even know that was possible.

[jdagenet]

Mod of the year crashes other mods intentionally. Good job @Sergeant_Mark_IV.

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

7 hours ago, jdagenet said:

Mod of the year crashes other mods intentionally. Good job @Sergeant_Mark_IV.

Just a prank, bro. I will have the code removed on next version. Just wanted to piss off PB fanboys.

[Marcaek]

1 hour ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

Just a prank, bro. I will have the code removed on next version. Just wanted to piss off PB fanboys.

 

Remember this when your rabid fans criticize other mods which are NOT meant to be compatible for pulling "pranks" bro

[Linguica]

So from what I understand, the script detects if Project Brutality is loaded, and if it is, then spawns approximately 8 billion particle effects, thereby tanking the user's computer? How is that different from the zip bombs uploaded by terrywadders that helped result in them being banned from the /idgames archive?

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

The script spawns one decorate actor which spawns copies of itself after every tic (instead of spawning stuff at 0 tic interval). At some point the script stops to work, I checked it myself, and it doesn't gets past 50% of CPU usage, pretty much like anything else running on GZDoom. I also, I warned people to only use it with the latest BD beta released on the same day. ;)

EDIT: And I must add, me and the PB devs have a story that ended with trust betrayal, and I have some pretty good personal reasons to be willing to have a laugh at them.

Edited January 2, 2018 by Sergeant_Mark_IV

[esselfortium]

It sounds like you're having some PB & Jelly, so to speak

[hardcore_gamer]

28 minutes ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

The script spawns one decorate actor which spawns copies of itself after every tic (instead of spawning stuff at 0 tic interval). At some point the script stops to work, I checked it myself, and it doesn't gets past 50% of CPU usage, pretty much like anything else running on GZDoom. I also, I warned people to only use it with the latest BD beta released on the same day. ;)

EDIT: And I must add, me and the PB devs have a story that ended with trust betrayal, and I have some pretty good personal reasons to be willing to have a laugh at them.

 

No offense but this is extremely unprofessional and really doesn't do much to shatter peoples perception of you being an immature child. So there was a dispute between you and the makers of the project brutality mod, so you just create a bug that cripples the mod for all the people who enjoy playing PB without telling anybody?

 

And you don't understand why you have become unpopular?

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

Just now, hardcore_gamer said:

No offense but this is extremely unprofessional and really doesn't do much to shatter peoples perception of you being an immature child. So there was a dispute between you and the makers of the project brutality mod, so you just create a bug that cripples the mod for all the people who enjoy playing PB without telling anybody?

And you don't understand why you have become unpopular?

 

 

Just now, esselfortium said:

It sounds like you're having some PB & Jelly, so to speak

lol
Nah, it goes way deeper than "jelly", and you should not make assumptions about something without knowing the story behind it.

Imagine a hypothetical scenario where I was allowed to get into the closed beta of a gameplay mod, let's say D4D (I heard stories about how DBThanatos was protective about the beta, even making a non-disclosure agreement for it). Let's say he trusted me to check how the mod's development is going, and even helped me with my own personal stuff. Then someday I decide to unknowingly to him, take assets and code from D4D, put it on Brutal Doom, release it publicly, allow BD's fanbase swarm D4D's gameplay videos saying things like "Oh you stole this from Brutal Doom!". Imagine the outrage this would have caused, imagine how everyone on this community would do anything possible to make me pay for this? That's a funny scenario to imagine, right? Because that's exactly what the PB devs did to me. What would be the "professional" method of dealing with this? Come on, give me an example. Asking Moddb to ban Project Brutality from their website and opening an endless discussion about the ethics of modding? Don't you think a prank directed exclusively to the PB fanbase isn't a more appropriate response?

[Chezza]

13 hours ago, Edward850 said:

This is the cop-out argument of "you shouldn't mind if I rehost your art (without asking and stripping out your signature), it's giving your art exposure!", people would prefer to be credited for their work straight up. And if it's good, show who made it because that's what they deserve at the absolute least.

 

To put it in a different perspective, remember that modding Doom is another skill you can put in a portfolio for potential employers. People here don't just make content for fun, but also for that exposure so they have something note worthy to show for, and if you are just taking that content without proper and appropriate accreditation, you are actually stealing that exposure directly from that person. Employers can actually look at a mod and go "now who made this music/sound effect/sprite work/whatever", and if all they see is one name that hoovered up anything and everything...

I agree, that's why I have point 1 included. More credit must be provided on time. If this was achieved from the get go then I believe all other arguments against BD as a quality mod / recognized aren't important.

[Edward850]

7 hours ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

and it doesn't gets past 50% of CPU usage

I don't think you quite understand how a multi-core processor works (or is represented on Windows, anyway). If you are forcing GZDoom to use all the resources it can, it will still be using 100% of that thread. If you have two cores, that's shown as 50% usage out of a single threaded application.

 

It's also not an excuse for deliberately antagonistic design againts someone else trying to make their mod compatible with your work. That's minecraft mod territory, and it was the laughing stock of the internet at the time.

Edit: I was under the impression that PB was an add-on for BD, which is not so as it turns out. The key statement still stands however, don't mess with the user's ability to understand and respond to the actual problem.

 

7 hours ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

What would be the "professional" method of dealing with this?

Well "professionally" speaking, intentionally crippling someones PC would get you fired instantly. So anything except what you did would be a start.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Edward850

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

9 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

I don't think you quite understand how a multi-core processor works (or is represented on Windows, anyway). If you are forcing GZDoom to use all the resources it can, it will still be using 100% of that thread. If you have two cores, that's shown as 50% usage out of a single threaded application.

I know you are a dev and everything but I fail to detect any difference in cpu clock usuage, voltage, temperatures when comparing the script tanking gzdoom to a regular playthrough of classic doom. https://ibb.co/gkZY4w
 

It's also not an excuse for deliberately antagonistic design againts someone else trying to make their mod compatible with your work. That's minecraft mod territory, and it was the laughing stock of the internet at the time.

 

 

Terminus and Mike are known for including anti-BD codes on their mods, and I don't see any immaturity on it. (The only difference is the reasoning, they took things lighter because they were annoyed at BD fanboys, while I have a personal vendetta with broken trust with the PB devs, and I did intended to remove the script after the wad was finished.)

[Edward850]

Just now, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

I know you are a dev and everything but I fail to detect any difference in cpu clock usuage, voltage, temperatures when comparing the script tanking gzdoom to a regular playthrough of classic doom. https://ibb.co/gkZY4w

If GZDoom isn't bogged down, regardless if you have vsync disabled and interpolation on so it's using 100% of what it can, the process itself is still responsive to the user as the UI is still operational, plus it'll still have wait cycles the system can use for background processes. Alternatively, if you are flooding the gamesim with actors, you are forcing it to take far and beyond 28ms or process each frame, preventing the user from interacting with the UI at a reasonable pace (if at all), and potentially wait-locking the thread, taking part of the operating system with it, not to mention hogging memory allocation. The only thing you're right about is it wont damage the system more than any other process could, but that's not the problem here.

 

6 minutes ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

Terminus and Mike are known for including anti-BD codes on their mods, and I don't see any immaturity on it.

The only thing that code does is make things silly for a mod that already doesn't work with their content. Unless you're are intentionally designing BD to be compatible with their content, the situations here are not related. Meanwhile their codes is not antagonistic to the users ability to interact with GZDoom either (outside of reasonable expectations).

[Cruduxy Pegg]

But you are punishing the wrong people instead of him? if he never runs that the only ones getting harmed are random players trying to run 2 mods with similar names at the same time.

 

[Csonicgo]

30 minutes ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

What would be the "professional" method of dealing with this?

Making a public statement about it and not punishing those who don't know or care about this would have been a professional method of dealing with this.

 

Because with this move, I can't trust your mods anymore. If you can be this petty, what else are you doing we don't know about yet? Don't tell me that I can just "look" because a lot of people who play your mod aren't exactly seasoned veterans to the doom scene, and haven't an idea in the slightest how a PK3 or WAD works.

 

It's one thing when it's a weapons mod loaded on a weapons mod. but a map set? 

[printz]

I believe it's fully mod author's right to actively block incompatible mods or source ports from running along with it.

 

@Sergeant_Mark_IV: Wouldn't it be much easier to run an ACS script that says "Brutal Doom won't run with Project Brutality", instakills the player and then spews some obscenities just to give a clue why? Without charging up the CPU or other dangerous things.