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Khorus

Nuclear Chunks; A new limit removing Plutonia map each week (MAP06)

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Nice work Khorus, typical map ill expect from you really! Tough start, very brutal! However the level does settle down abit once I found the plasma and got key hunting. Lovely visuals and a good layout.

 

Only thing I did think was strange was the baron guarding the red key, poor sod didn't stand a chance :-)

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Map01 FDA

A bit weak gameplay for Plutonia. You got that large area but there is not a single hitscanner, so it's very safe to run around and there is not much incentive to fight anything (especially since there is no SSG... in a Plutonia map!). And in the yellow key room triggering a massive infighting is so trivial and then nothing interesting happens. The red key cave is also rather uneventful: just take care of 2 chaingunners and that's it. And that area feels tacked on, like it has nothing to do with the rest of the map. Overall the map feels more like a series of separate small fights rather than one continuous fight (as in the best PL levels).

 

Random things I would change:

- move player 1 here. The starting view should be memorable!

- fix missing textures in the cave.

- change the brown flat to gray here.

- add SSG, more chaingunners, and health.

 

Anyway, that's just how I would do it. Hoping to see some interconnected dynamic Plutonia goodness in the following levels.

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It's tame for a Plutonia map but I think that it's allright to be an opener. Most of the stuff happen in the big outdoor area and the rest is a rather safe stroll without big surprises. The flat of the pillar with the rocket launcher should change when it lowers. I'm not sure about having that red key cave, its only purpose is to get access to a secret early on but a third key isn't necessary in this map, also there you find a handful of monsters that aren't threatening.

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Played on Zdoom, compatibility Doom(strict),Ultra Violence, keyboard and mouse(never mouselook because ew). 99%kills, 0%secrets, 96%items.

 

Hey it's a pretty good map although the gameplay wasn't nearly as challenging as I would expect, even from MAP01. The MAP looks very good in my opinion, especially the area with the red key but I think it could use some gameplay changes. 

 

But overall I rather enjoyed it quite well, the track also fitted the map pretty nicely.

 

Here are some of my thoughts:


 

Spoiler

 

* Maybe change the weapon progression a little bit. You don't need to give the Plasma Gun right before you give the Rocket Launcher. The map can be played without the Plasma Gun all around.

* Maybe change the teleport Revenant trap so it would activate during the Rocket Launcher pickup, that way the player has a nice comfy little area to move around while fending off a teleporting Revenant attack. 

* Maybe instead of an Arachnotron, use something that can put pressure on the player when he picks up the blue key, like a Hell Knight.

* I didn't like the Baron of Hell usage in the map, felt like a meatwall without any purpose. Same goes for the Archvile, he was rather useless.

* I think just in general there were too many low-tier monsters and not enough pressure.

* There was a blocking monster line here for some reason:Screenshot_Doom_20180112_161937.png.0265b771655285fa8911cdf30666d511.png

 

 

 

 

Anyway, this is what I can think of when it comes to my suggestions at the moment. I look forward for more maps in the future.

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I enjoyed the map overall.

 

I do think it could benefit from a little more ammo (maybe just a couple more bullet boxes and handful of rockets - no need for more plasma). I don't think the super shotgun is absolutely necessary - there were a couple areas where I really missed it, but I think more bullets and rockets would compensate.

 

I appreciated multiple gameplay paths, neither of which seemed to penalize the player for making the "wrong" choice.

 

And if I'm digging deep I guess I would say that that central area was kinda established as a theme/hub early on but then the later quests took me away from it. I guess I'd like to come back to it one more time, like for example, if the exit is in that area in plain sight and a switch in the current exit room makes it accessible.

 

I'll be playing the rest of these. Thanks for making.

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Are you going to bundle this into some megawad kinda thing?

 

That would be nice, but in that case i'm gonna keep up my impatience and do some binge playing when it's finished.

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6 hours ago, Khorus said:

Nuclear Chunks is a limit removing Plutonia project where I'm limited to using a 32 grid size for linedef (allowing myself rotation for a bit of flexibility) and things placement,

It's awesome that you're doing the 'one map a week' thing. I might consider doing something like this myself :) 

 

I imagine that this 32 grid rule might siphon out your creativity (unless you really do like mapping this way) so if you feel like ditching this rule at any point to continue mapping, do it. I think anyone who would seriously hold you to it is an asshole.

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Well, actually A LOT of Plutonia exists on the 32 grid (much more than one would probably think). I don't expect it to cause any issues.

 

Btw sector 456 could use a different floor flat too. And thing 277 is annoyingly placed imo (hard to avoid when you don't want it).

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MAP01 DEAD 116/118 2 31/32 1/3 21:48+26

 

First attempt I'm not proud of. I died to the penultimate monster, who unfortunately beat the pain chance roulette. I decided not to restart as I had all but cleared the map and only had more wall humping to look forward to (most likely would have turned on ddt mode at that point). If you watch this, I recommend speeding it up a lot.

 

Possible improvements:

  • The secrets could be hinted better. The fake wall with the switch behind it isn't hinted at all; you must stumble through it by pure luck. The lift in the cave is almost invisible in the gloom, and the "hint" (rock2 instead of rock3 on one side) isn't much of one, since half the rest of the cave also varies between rock2 and rock3. Much of the automap is rendered invisible. The player has little choice other than endless wall-humping, etc.
  • It would be nice if the location of the actual exit line was definitely marked/visible, to avoid accidental early intermission screens; as it is, you don't know how far down the passage it is, and (as a line between two identical sectors) does not cause a visplane split, so is never drawn on the automap.
  • I find it odd that line 5 does not have the same type and tag as line 6. This means the player can step off the blue armour pad without triggering the trap. If he does this by accident, he is unlikely to realise he must repeat the teleport to achieve 100% kills.

Other than that it was a fine map. Thank you for making it. I look forward to more.

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Hoo boy, thanks for all the playing and feedback everyone! The next version of the wad will have Map02 and a bugfixed/tweaked Map01.

 

9 hours ago, Liberation said:

Nice work Khorus, typical map ill expect from you really! Tough start, very brutal! However the level does settle down abit once I found the plasma and got key hunting. Lovely visuals and a good layout.

 

Only thing I did think was strange was the baron guarding the red key, poor sod didn't stand a chance :-)

 

Cheers mate! Good point on the baron, his skin has fallen off and he's become a revenant now.

 

4 hours ago, HAK3180 said:

I enjoyed the map overall.

 

And if I'm digging deep I guess I would say that that central area was kinda established as a theme/hub early on but then the later quests took me away from it. I guess I'd like to come back to it one more time, like for example, if the exit is in that area in plain sight and a switch in the current exit room makes it accessible.

 

I'll be playing the rest of these. Thanks for making.

 

Glad to hear you enjoyed it! I understand your point and it's fair enough, the problem is the maps will link together from the exit of one to the start of the next for a sense of progression and cohesion and I've already finished most of the next map. It also helps keep the ball rolling for inspiration on my end.

 

7 hours ago, Memfis said:

Map01 FDA

A bit weak gameplay for Plutonia. You got that large area but there is not a single hitscanner, so it's very safe to run around and there is not much incentive to fight anything (especially since there is no SSG... in a Plutonia map!). And in the yellow key room triggering a massive infighting is so trivial and then nothing interesting happens. The red key cave is also rather uneventful: just take care of 2 chaingunners and that's it. And that area feels tacked on, like it has nothing to do with the rest of the map. Overall the map feels more like a series of separate small fights rather than one continuous fight (as in the best PL levels).

 

Random things I would change:

- move player 1 here. The starting view should be memorable!

- fix missing textures in the cave.

- change the brown flat to gray here.

- add SSG, more chaingunners, and health.

 

Anyway, that's just how I would do it. Hoping to see some interconnected dynamic Plutonia goodness in the following levels.

 

Ha, not surprised you found it a little easy. :) You've got a good point with the central area being nearly all projectile based so I added a few more sniping hitscanners with a bit of health to compensate. I wanted the player to hunt a bit for weapons without feeling overwhelmed in the Map01 slot so was avoiding shotgunners and chaingunners on the floor allowing for an easier to get weapon. Boosted the red key area a bit as well. There will definitely be interconnected, continuous feeling maps later on! I love playing and making them.

 

SSG will probably make an appearance in Map03, nice to depend on some other weapons too. This is a wad for Plutonia, but it isn't Plutonia 3 or something. Just as a Doom E1 wad doesn't have to be an E1 rehash, so I'm not going to stick to the thematics and gameplay of the orignal maps to the letter. Thanks for the missing textures and start suggestion, I like that more too. :)

 

5 hours ago, Uni said:

 

  Hide contents

 

* Maybe change the weapon progression a little bit. You don't need to give the Plasma Gun right before you give the Rocket Launcher. The map can be played without the Plasma Gun all around.

* Maybe change the teleport Revenant trap so it would activate during the Rocket Launcher pickup, that way the player has a nice comfy little area to move around while fending off a teleporting Revenant attack. 

* Maybe instead of an Arachnotron, use something that can put pressure on the player when he picks up the blue key, like a Hell Knight.

* I didn't like the Baron of Hell usage in the map, felt like a meatwall without any purpose. Same goes for the Archvile, he was rather useless.

* I think just in general there were too many low-tier monsters and not enough pressure.

* There was a blocking monster line here for some reason:Screenshot_Doom_20180112_161937.png.0265b771655285fa8911cdf30666d511.png

 

 

 

 

Thanks for playing! I like having the plasma in, there's not enough ammo to depend on it but use it in a pinch (good for the revenant trap too). I wanted a chaingun/SG map with some heavier weapons as backup. I'm happy with the revenant trap as is so it forces the player to fend off hitscanners and use the column in the area, or make a solid break past the revvies, but I like replacing the arachnotron with the hell knight! Not sure what reasoning I had with the block line, so off she goes. Don't worry, pressure will build up. :) Did you play with a gameplay altering mod or purely visual out of curiosity?

 

7 hours ago, gaspe said:

The flat of the pillar with the rocket launcher should change when it lowers.

 

Fixed!

 

4 hours ago, Jayextee said:

No TLITE exit teleporter. D-

 

Computer -> Window

 

Srsly though, I'll probably later incorporate that when I get to some jungly techbases.

 

4 hours ago, Crunchynut44 said:

Yes! I can't wait to give this a whirl. I love your style and regularly play through Speedy Shit!

 

That's great to hear! Hope you have a good time with it. :)

 

4 hours ago, grrfield said:

Are you going to bundle this into some megawad kinda thing?

 

That would be nice, but in that case i'm gonna keep up my impatience and do some binge playing when it's finished.

 

Yes, there will be a good few maps when it's all said and done. Doubt it will hit the esteemed megawad status, but I'm aiming for around 10 levels.

 

3 hours ago, 40oz said:

It's awesome that you're doing the 'one map a week' thing. I might consider doing something like this myself :) 

 

I imagine that this 32 grid rule might siphon out your creativity (unless you really do like mapping this way) so if you feel like ditching this rule at any point to continue mapping, do it. I think anyone who would seriously hold you to it is an asshole.

 

Cheers! You should do that, helps force me to go with the flow without being a full on speedmap. The grid size hasn't been an issue at all so far, quite a pleasure in fact and helps keep things simple, but it's nice to know I won't be lynched if I change my mind. ;)

 

2 hours ago, RjY said:

MAP01 DEAD 116/118 2 31/32 1/3 21:48+26

 

First attempt I'm not proud of. I died to the penultimate monster, who unfortunately beat the pain chance roulette. I decided not to restart as I had all but cleared the map and only had more wall humping to look forward to (most likely would have turned on ddt mode at that point). If you watch this, I recommend speeding it up a lot.

 

Possible improvements:

  • The secrets could be hinted better. The fake wall with the switch behind it isn't hinted at all; you must stumble through it by pure luck. The lift in the cave is almost invisible in the gloom, and the "hint" (rock2 instead of rock3 on one side) isn't much of one, since half the rest of the cave also varies between rock2 and rock3. Much of the automap is rendered invisible. The player has little choice other than endless wall-humping, etc.
  • It would be nice if the location of the actual exit line was definitely marked/visible, to avoid accidental early intermission screens; as it is, you don't know how far down the passage it is, and (as a line between two identical sectors) does not cause a visplane split, so is never drawn on the automap.
  • I find it odd that line 5 does not have the same type and tag as line 6. This means the player can step off the blue armour pad without triggering the trap. If he does this by accident, he is unlikely to realise he must repeat the teleport to achieve 100% kills.

Other than that it was a fine map. Thank you for making it. I look forward to more.

 

I will definitely watch it, sorry for the wall humping. I was trying to avoid that but looks like I failed a bit there. I tried to show the wall by having an ammobox very close with a light and angle change, but instead I've put a line of clips leading into it now. There's a triangle light on the cave lift which I've now given another light boost and made glow to help there and I've made the lift at the start show as 2 sided as a hint to how to get up.

 

I've made the exit a switch now to avoid any confusion, and whoopsie on the line 5 bug! 

 

Thanks for playing! 

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42 minutes ago, Khorus said:

Did you play with a gameplay altering mod or purely visual out of curiosity?

Purely visuals and sounds. Absolutely zero gameplay alteration and I 100% respect your decisions. Keep up the good work. 

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On one hand, I could wait for this to be finished and play it all at once in a marathon....

 

Or I could just blow through these when they come out. Decisions, decisions....

 

Good to you see you back to basics, Khorus! Every map I've played from you thus far has been a treat, so I'm sure this will be no exception.

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FDA, 99% kills 0% secrets

 

I am a massive, massive Plutonia fan but didn't get that same gameplay vibe from this map tbh, although, i guess you might not be directly trying to emulate the gameplay style. I think the map would benefit from either an SSG or more rockets (in place of plasma?) personally, it would at least speed up the grind on those single nobles that are a very easy but time consuming fight. There was a hell of a lot of shooting mid tiers with the shotgun/chaingun in this one. I liked it early on where i was somewhat under-powered versus what was in front of me so i felt compelled to press on and try to find better weapons, and also the traps where you tried to surround or box me into a corner.


Regarding the megaarmor secret, you could probably just put the item in that cubby rather than having the teleport that makes the player have to loop around all over again?

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Here we go with Map02, set in an underground rock cave with a burst of outdoor activity. The music is the track "Chemistry Lab" from the Open Transport Tycoon (yes really) music pack which is released under the GNU GPL. The wad also has an updated Map01, so feedback on both maps is still appreciated! Here's a couple of screens from Map02;

 

SSHOT_Doom_20180119_181543241.jpg.85190555197046f3123ce6781d1b9b1f.jpg

 

SSHOT_Doom_20180119_181957803.jpg.4eb7427d9cd371229bf0c22eea022e69.jpg

 

On 13/01/2018 at 5:39 AM, Scotty said:

Regarding the megaarmor secret, you could probably just put the item in that cubby rather than having the teleport that makes the player have to loop around all over again?

 

Good idea, originally the rocket launcher and yellow key locations were swapped but that made the rocket area very easy to miss if you did take the blue armour teleport (which was a speedrun intended boost) and I quite liked that room, but it doesn't make sense with the layout. 

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I finished Map 2 from pistol start with 100% 68% 50% on Hurt Me Plenty. I think I liked Map 1 better, but I do think this one felt more Plutonia. Overall I thought it was pretty good, but two minor criticisms I have are that in a few places the combat kinda stalled (a couple spots overly conducive to camping), and too much plasma. The stage seemed to be set early that plasma would be in abundance, with cell charges scattered somewhat freely. As a result, I hardly thought about conserving plasma and in the end had 158 cells left over. 

 

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Map02 FDA

Not much to say, just a standard nonlinear 3 key affair with easily predictable traps and monsters coming from one direction. The cyber was there just to waste time I think, the music was excellent. Still no Plutonia feel but nice lighting.

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MAP01

--------

A Revenant never teleported in. Linedef tag 21 is missing.

The Red Key switch texture looked mis-aligned, but I realized it was because you used SW1BRN1 and I play with fixed Doom2 Texture1 switch definitions.

 

MAP02

--------

You have a leftover G1 linedef tag 20 on the column next to the one where the switch currently is.

 

Fun.

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MAP02 DEAD 134/136 2 34/50 1/2 14:05+11

 

First attempt. For me, the cyberdemon was far more than just a waste of time. I managed to die to it. Again, like last week, right at the end, so I didn't bother to restart. Again, I missed a secret. I was fairly sure I knew where it was though, I just didn't spot the trigger. Finally, I think the brick texture on line 1265 looks like it is meant to be rock3. Overall, nice map, not too difficult. I just failed at dodging.

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I like that these are Khorus maps using Plutonia textures - you get a wider variety of available textures (plus vines!) and a nicer first sky for these natural areas. These first two maps have been a decent challenge. I think a week is a good amount of time for a map, as you're creating reasonably large levels with a decent appearance and a fun balance. I'll be keeping up with these! Much like your speedy shit, this is easily digestible fun and a good inspiration.

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Cool map. The cave reminds me a lot of similar areas in Warlock's Hearth. What they excel at is implying areas out of sight, not actually in the map itself, without actually showing them -- the sprawling irregular use of space makes it feel as if the caves could be endless. 


Here's a laid-back FDA

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I'm probably going to be too busy to release Map03 tomorrow, so I'm bringing it out a day early. Find your way through the high pressure start to some weaponry and make it to the boat to continue your journey! Download Here. This map features Map09's music from the Plutonia midi pack, created by Bucket. 

 

SSHOT_Doom_20180125_144739792.jpg.fa998d205366930105ffcf88a3f6fefd.jpg

 

SSHOT_Doom_20180125_155026505.jpg.40c7ecde8cc92bbacaec117b7ee755ea.jpg

 

On 19/01/2018 at 8:26 PM, HAK3180 said:

I finished Map 2 from pistol start with 100% 68% 50% on Hurt Me Plenty. I think I liked Map 1 better, but I do think this one felt more Plutonia. Overall I thought it was pretty good, but two minor criticisms I have are that in a few places the combat kinda stalled (a couple spots overly conducive to camping), and too much plasma. The stage seemed to be set early that plasma would be in abundance, with cell charges scattered somewhat freely. As a result, I hardly thought about conserving plasma and in the end had 158 cells left over. 

 

 

Thanks for the feedback! Yes, I wanted players to feel nice and powerful with the plasma without worry but that is a bit much to exit with, so I reduced a couple of cells near the cyber.

 

On 19/01/2018 at 11:05 PM, Memfis said:

Map02 FDA

Not much to say, just a standard nonlinear 3 key affair with easily predictable traps and monsters coming from one direction. The cyber was there just to waste time I think, the music was excellent. Still no Plutonia feel but nice lighting.

 

Fair enough! Thanks for playing, it's surprising a couple of midis intended for a relaxing economy building game can suit doom so well.

 

On 20/01/2018 at 0:22 AM, EffinghamHuffnagel said:

MAP01

--------

A Revenant never teleported in. Linedef tag 21 is missing.

The Red Key switch texture looked mis-aligned, but I realized it was because you used SW1BRN1 and I play with fixed Doom2 Texture1 switch definitions.

 

MAP02

--------

You have a leftover G1 linedef tag 20 on the column next to the one where the switch currently is.

 

Fun.

 

Whoops, forgot to remove the revenant and the G1 line when adjusting things, thanks for that! Not quite sure what you mean with the SW1BRN1 texture but I hope you figured the map out with the settings you play with.

 

On 20/01/2018 at 6:11 AM, RjY said:

MAP02 DEAD 134/136 2 34/50 1/2 14:05+11

 

First attempt. For me, the cyberdemon was far more than just a waste of time. I managed to die to it. Again, like last week, right at the end, so I didn't bother to restart. Again, I missed a secret. I was fairly sure I knew where it was though, I just didn't spot the trigger. Finally, I think the brick texture on line 1265 looks like it is meant to be rock3. Overall, nice map, not too difficult. I just failed at dodging.

 

Argh, sorry for repeatedly dashing your hopes at the end. ;)  Thanks for spotting the brick texture.

 

On 22/01/2018 at 6:43 AM, Phobus said:

I like that these are Khorus maps using Plutonia textures - you get a wider variety of available textures (plus vines!) and a nicer first sky for these natural areas. These first two maps have been a decent challenge. I think a week is a good amount of time for a map, as you're creating reasonably large levels with a decent appearance and a fun balance. I'll be keeping up with these! Much like your speedy shit, this is easily digestible fun and a good inspiration.

 

That's great to hear, thanks for that. :) Yes, a week schedule is a nice balance between taking time to build areas but being able to figure things out too without being overly obsessive. It was taking a week to build a room sometimes in my Strife project, needed a change in mentality. Good to see you around again, Phobus!

 

On 22/01/2018 at 7:00 AM, NoisyVelvet said:

fda map2 noisy_Chunks2.zip

prboom+ complevel 2

 

Cheers for the demo!

 

On 22/01/2018 at 6:34 PM, rdwpa said:

Cool map. The cave reminds me a lot of similar areas in Warlock's Hearth. What they excel at is implying areas out of sight, not actually in the map itself, without actually showing them -- the sprawling irregular use of space makes it feel as if the caves could be endless. 


Here's a laid-back FDA

 

Yes, very similar to some parts of the Warlock's Hearth. I liked working on those caves in that map and wanted to expand on how I made them a little bit more. I do enjoy trying to make areas feel bigger and part of something grander than they really are, keeping that in check with the week limitation is part of the fun. ;)

Edited by Khorus : wrong credit

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Hey Khorus, just as a heads up, I just took a peek at your map - The MIDI used there is actually by Bucket, not me. I doubt he would mind if you use the tune (heck, that's one of the things the pack was made for) but maybe just shoot him a message anyway. Apologies for not catching this earlier.

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2 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

Hey Khorus, just as a heads up, I just took a peek at your map - The MIDI used there is actually by Bucket, not me. I doubt he would mind if you use the tune (heck, that's one of the things the pack was made for) but maybe just shoot him a message anyway. Apologies for not catching this earlier.

 

Ahh crap, thanks for clearing that up. Not sure how I got that so wrong!

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I was enjoying map three until I became pretty well convinced that I could not progress. I checked your original post, and you did not mention difficulty levels, but I think I have always played on Hurt Me Plenty with no problems. I opened the map in the editor and found that the blue key is only present on hard (the other two are present on all difficulties), so unless I missed something else, I'm thinking it's impossible on easy and medium.

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