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Matthias

What's up with Doom 2 maps?

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I noticed that someone from time to time mentions how specifically Doom 2 maps suck. Especially in the topic about Doom 64 it was mentioned many times.

 

What does it mean? Does it simply means the maps in Doom (1993) was better than Doom II Hell on Earth (1994) ? And if they are so bad, what is bad about them exactly? I don't get it and I am really curious :)

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The earth levels suck. They don't contain as much detail as Doom 1 had.

TNT Evilution avoids that problem by detailing maps.

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Just now, Cacodemon345 said:

The earth levels suck. They don't contain as much detail as Doom 1 had.

TNT Evilution avoids that problem by detailing maps.

What kind of details are we speaking of?

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Feels like they just gave up and said fuck it and started working on the game with a limited textures set, the biggest offender being the MAP13 Downtown, which doesn't even look like a town, sometimes makes me think they just wanted to grab the money while they can in the shadow of the First game's success, though at least we got the Super Shotgun so there's that.

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IMO the best thing they coulda done for Doom 2 in general would be to bin the entire original texture set and create a new one specifically-tailored to the Mars and Earth levels. However, as a game developer myself, I know how asset re-use can be a life-saver, especially when deadlines are closer than they appear in a rear-view mirror.

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1 minute ago, Grain of Salt said:

I wonder if anyone has made this thread before

oh... don't tell me you discuss this topic at least twice a month

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Ya, there are many "why does doom 2 suck"/"which do you prefer out of doom 1 and 2" threads. I would link to some but the forum search was extremely slow so I gave up.

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Just now, Grain of Salt said:

Ya, there are many "why does doom 2 suck"/"which do you prefer out of doom 1 and 2" threads. I would link to some but the forum search was extremely slow so I gave up.

Oh, sorry about that

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1 minute ago, Cacodemon345 said:

How?

Well it has Chasm and Downtown

 

most favorite maps of the Doomword community

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Just now, Matthias said:

most favorite maps of the Doomword community

Those are actually least favourite maps. Are you joking?

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I think there are a good few maps on Doom 2 that are way too short imo, notable examples include Underhalls, The Gantlet and The Focus.  Considering that levels such as Command Control, Containment Area, Pandemonium and House of Pain (within the first half of their respective episodes) in Ultimate Doom were reasonably long, there is just no excuse.  It must've been expected that gamers progressing onto Doom 2 mastered Ultimate Doom already, so why scale back the difficulty?  Apart from enemy placement on UltraViolence, there is nothing challenging about Doom 2 up to Tricks and Traps (at a stretch).

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49 minutes ago, dmg_64 said:

Feels like they just gave up and said fuck it and started working on the game with a limited textures set, the biggest offender being the MAP13 Downtown, which doesn't even look like a town, sometimes makes me think they just wanted to grab the money while they can in the shadow of the First game's success, though at least we got the Super Shotgun so there's that.

Well they were a shovelware company before Wolfenstien 3D. While I do dearly love Doom II, it feels like a lot of early PC games where the sequel was the first game with a few extra bells and whistles to make the original obsolete (other than the levels being different). Enemy art wasn't just similar... it was the same. They released it 9 months after the original. If they didn't, technology would catch up, bypass them and they'd lose that money.

 

As for the topic. I think the maps were fine. When the maps were fresh 20 years ago there were a few head scratchers. The further the game goes, the more it becomes a big jumble in my memory. I remember the themes more than the maps. That too was an early trope of the shareware days where the early maps were by far the best and memorable.

Edited by geo

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I know this is just a bait thread based on how trolly OP is acting, but yeah Doom 2 is pretty bad. The ssg and new enemies are nice, but they don't come even remotely close to making up for the complete lack of level design (aside from map01 and a map or two at the end).

 

It seemed more like they threw it together just to sell it again, incidentally (perhaps purposely) adding new stuff that would greatly benefit modding.

 

It's not the worst ever (that goes to TNT and Doom 64, though TNT does have a handful of decent levels), but it doesn't hold a candle to the likes of Doom 1 or Plutonia and whatnot.

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3 minutes ago, bonnie said:

I know this is just a bait thread based on how trolly OP is acting

Excuse me?

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Joke: Doom 2 sux, Doom 1 superior

Woke: The Plutonia Experiment is the real Doom 2.

Broke: I can't afford a Doom.

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