How to make Earth interesting in a Doom sequel.

[DooM_RO]

So we all know that Earth is one of the more lazy location choices for a futuristic sci-fi shooter so how should Id handle it if if their next game takes place on Earth? Should it be only a few levels and should it even take place on Earth? Just because it could take place on Earth doesn't mean it has to be boring.

 

Earth worked in Doom 2 because it was so abstract but in a game with realistic graphics like the new Doom games you simply can't get away with that.

 

So I was browsing Twitter and I saw this picture. Now I am not really into Japan or its culture but I was immediately reminded of the lighting of Doom 64. Tokyo could be the  place where the headquarters of the UAC is located. Snow hasn't really been explored in the Doom universe and I was pretty disappointed when the penultimate level's outdoor area was pretty short.

 

 

My vote is that it should only partly take place on Earth. The variety of locations is one of Doom's strongest points and Earth could get boring really quickly. Despite this, Earth is still part of the DNA of Doom.

 

What other ideas do you guys have?

 

 

[ArchangelOfHell]

If the sequel will include earth I would imagine it being roughly halfway through/ to boost the anticipation of seeing it, sort of like how you mostly begin on some Mars/Phobos base before entering the hell realm.. also here is a very good snapmap with a custom city theme, although I'm sure an entire team of ID employee's would come up with some amazing design. I would think to see semi-futuristic tech with hell bending/transforming into every detail. Which could look amazing giving the art talent they have, also I'd hope to see some form of coop campaign implemented this time-

 

[Johnatone]

You could do a decent job of updating Doom II to fit in the story. After Hayden puts Doomslayer back in the box, he stores him in an storage facility on Phobos or Deimos, then goes to Earth to reestablish the UAC. Shit hits the fan again. A group of soldiers and UAC employees make an emergency trip to facility to wake up Doomslayer, but a ship of demons follows them and a battle ensues before the return to Earth. (So we get an homage to Doom I's original location and a Doom II story reference with an explanation for why there's so few ships for humanity to flee: demons adapted to accomodate newer forms of technology somehow, and this new development happened so quickly many ships had to be shot down before it was contained.)

The middle part would be the challenge to adapt; reality seldom makes for interesting game locales - I prefer abstract design to forced reality design (Quake vs COD, same engine, different approach and results.) but would go more or less the same, battle through Earth then Hell, which would really need some thought to it as well. IMO a dual universe approach (like the time jumping sequence in Titanfall 2 except based on action and exploration versus platforming) could have potential. (Imagine an arena battle with a puzzle sequence jumping between different parts of Hell and Earth.) (Also, inspirstion from Prey's portal effects use maybe?). Either way, they'll have to up the ante on Hell this time. I'd have to muse on that one.

[Novaseer]

To be honest, I feel like Hayden's going to go mad and make a UAC base on Hell itself at some point. If he is 130+ years old, as the codices state, his mental state must be starting to deteriorate.

 

Regardless, I still feel like an Earth level or two would make a great addition.

[DooM_RO]

On 2/1/2018 at 11:08 PM, Novaseer said:

To be honest, I feel like Hayden's going to go mad and make a UAC base on Hell itself at some point. If he is 130+ years old, as the codices state, his mental state must be starting to deteriorate.

 

Regardless, I still feel like an Earth level or two would make a great addition.

 

I like that idea!

[Touchdown]

I disagree with you, DooM_RO. Earth is probably the single most vibrant and diverse setting for a game. They made a Mars base that's semi-abstract in DOOM4, what makes you think it's impossible to make a semi-abstract city in the sequel? Remember that we're in the future. Earth in the DOOM universe would probably be closer to a cyberpunk, futuristic version of it - nothing stands in a way of making it both visually interesting and fit for a fast-paced, mobility-heavy gameplay. And aside from that it could serve as a way of turning things up to a more desperate scenario than an invasion of a remote base - a total extinction of humanity. I think it's time we got a proper Hell on Earth game.

 

Besides, we really need to know what happened on Earth after the destruction of the Argent Tower.

[BluePineapple72]

If they do go on the Hell on Earth route, I hope we get to see a variety of earth locations, rather then just ‘ultra tech city land’

 

I’m imagining some things like: a zoo, a museum of old shit, a century old historical town kind of like old Philly (maybe even some folks wearing classic clothing because they work there) in the middle of a massive new city, and maybe even a forest or some shit like that. 

 

I hope that if they do go to Earth, they get creative and show us some cool new shit, instead of an old 60s diner leve and other generic shlock. 

[DooM_RO]

How about a level set in a Gothic Cathedral and then its Catacombs?

[DooM_RO]

22 hours ago, Touchdown said:

I disagree with you, DooM_RO. Earth is probably the single most vibrant and diverse setting for a game. They made a Mars base that's semi-abstract in DOOM4, what makes you think it's impossible to make a semi-abstract city in the sequel? Remember that we're in the future. Earth in the DOOM universe would probably be closer to a cyberpunk, futuristic version of it - nothing stands in a way of making it both visually interesting and fit for a fast-paced, mobility-heavy gameplay. And aside from that it could serve as a way of turning things up to a more desperate scenario than an invasion of a remote base - a total extinction of humanity. I think it's time we got a proper Hell on Earth game.

 

Besides, we really need to know what happened on Earth after the destruction of the Argent Tower.

 

How was it semi-abstract? It looked pretty realistic to me.

[Touchdown]

The artstyle is realistic, kind of an extension of DOOM3. But the structure and room/corridors configuration is very much focused on the gameplay to provide enough options for both the player and enemies. It's not crazy but it's easy to see that in reality nobody would really build a Mars base like that. I'm pretty sure I've even heard them say something like that in one of the interviews - the style is realistic but the structure is gameplay-focused.

[Noiser]

On 04/02/2018 at 7:27 AM, DooM_RO said:

 

How was it semi-abstract? It looked pretty realistic to me.

Doom 4 level layout relies a lot on semi-abstraction. Not at the same level of OG Doom, but still... just the fact that most of the levels\arenas were made BEFORE defining their concepts is a big clue.

For comparison sake, Doom 3 is a lot more realistic with flat, horizontal structures that makes more sense as a real human location.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Noiser

[DooM_RO]

1 hour ago, Noiser said:

Doom 4 level layout relies a lot on semi-abstraction. Not at the same level of OG Doom, but still... just the fact that most of the levels\arenas were made BEFORE defining their concepts is a big clue.

For comparison sake, Doom 3 is a lot more realistic with flat, horizontal structures that makes more sense as a real human location.

 

I mean the hell levels for sure but the UAC levels felt pretty realistic to me. How were they not? I am studying environment design and I would like to know.

[Noiser]

2 hours ago, DooM_RO said:

 

I mean the hell levels for sure but the UAC levels felt pretty realistic to me. How were they not? I am studying environment design and I would like to know.

Lots of those structures doesn't make much sense as human-like structures. The art team painted them with a coat of realism, but the layout was made before with basic geometry and without any constraints of what "makes sense" or not. There are some interviews were they explained how they made it, unfortunately I don't know where I can find the links again.

 

[ASD]

The game would begin in a research facility and ancient ruins located in a jungle (Plutonia). Then most of the game takes place in a city and old town (Doom2) where environment is varied heights of rubble, fallen skyscrapers and hell craters. Near the end, the player goes to Hell where they battle demonic hordes and a boss. The player returns to Earth and fights the final boss at a congress building.

[DooM_RO]

47 minutes ago, Noiser said:

Lots of those structures doesn't make much sense as human-like structures. The art team painted them with a coat of realism, but the layout was made before with basic geometry and without any constraints of what "makes sense" or not. There are some interviews were they explained how they made it, unfortunately I don't know where I can find the links again.

 

 

Yes, I know the interviews but I still don't see how the layouts don't make sense. I mean, what is the difference between the environments you see in Doom and the ones from a more "serious" game? What is not realistic about the Foundry for instance?

[Noiser]

Well, it's just my point of view, so don't take it too seriously... but there is a lot of verticallity, some weird shapes and areas without anything "useful" if you think about a real location. Sometimes there is no focus on props as well. Sure, you can see them here and there, but lots of "big areas" shares the same philosophy from OG Doom: A preference for generic settings over strong figurativism (which you can see comparing it with Wolfenstein 3D or even some early Doom prototypes).

Btw, abstract shapes with a coat of realism is a term that I can apply to OG Doom as well. I'm not comparing these games, but as we know, OG Doom development focused on maps without any concern of realism. After that, they find what the map looks like to give a name and a bigger concept. This looks like some source of inspiration for Doom 06, I believe.
 

But most important... compare it with Doom 3. When you are making something with deeper realistic settings, you have to be more restricted in terms of space, area and how they are connected together. Which kind of explains things like this IMO:

 

Edited February 17, 2018 by Noiser

[MaxTrevors]

Use movies like Blade Runner, Akira, and Dredd as an influence for cityscapes. The new Total Recall was visually cool too. Warhammer 40k is a great source for inspiration as well.

[MaxTrevors]

And i think adding a wide variety of environments would be great too. Jungles, caves, deserts, space stations, hell, alien worlds absorbed by hell, industrial areas, parks, botanical gardens, labs, prisons, military bases, frozen areas, museums, etc.

[MaxTrevors]

More open areas with more exploration for replayability. 

[MaxTrevors]

Maybe a level with a mech suit to stomp through town like in the new Wolfenstein games. It could be equipped with weapons similar to the most iconic weapons in DOOM. A huge shrapnel cannon, a rotary cannon, a plasma gun, and a big chainsaw arm. DOOM bot! I have been playin Mechatron DOOM lately lol.

[Koko Ricky]

I just want more Giger stuff.

[Rosh Fragger]

How to make Earth interesting? Plant More Trees!!

[GuyMcBrofist]

Given that Earth is being powered completely by argent energy for a while when we come in, I see two scenarios happening:

 

The first is that with 'free' energy, there's little to no pollution anywhere. Cities are at a Mirror's Edge level of pristine cleanliness. The culture in urban and suburban places has been taken to the highest it has ever been with everyone's basic needs easily being met.

 

The second is that the use of argent comes with side effects like we see on Mars. Argent 'collection points' scattered across the globe that distribute power out to civilization are the subject of numerous rumors, conspiracy theories, and strange happenings. The UAC keeps a lid on everything until all hell breaks loose.

 

So as far as level design goes, there can be two nicely contrasting styles to use for Earth, and there can be levels where the two sectors of society are interfaced with each other in some sort of conflict.

[Chezza]

If I can play a ridiculous amount of techbase I mostly definitely cacn handle lots of earth maps.

 

Oh and Hell maps are a given. Give me one amazing one at least.

[Scorpinax]

Besides the obligatory UAC base, there's so many locations that would make for both appealing design and gameplay. Personally I would like to see a partially destroyed city as a level, or maybe a stronghold of people who didn't die when the demons invaded... 

[Reaper8888]

The idea of a Doom game that takes place on Earth doesn't appeal to me. The Mars/moons of Mars setting is one of the aspects of Doom I find appealing. I think sequels should either stick to Mars or a similar environment. Earth just doesn't feel right.

[Touchdown]

Between DOOM2, countless amazing Earth levels made by the community and the abundance of Hell on Earth DOOM fan art I think you're in the minority. We really don't need a third DOOM game in the row taking place on some barren planet with industrial techbases.

[⇛Marnetmar⇛]

If all of Earth's energy resources are depleted and that's what lead to the need to use argent energy, then why not have Earth portrayed as being turned into a giant quarry as mankind desperately struggles to squeeze every last resource out of Earth's crust? Everywhere you look is a canyon, a ledge or cave, entire major cities have been destroyed and what remains of them is now built into artificially made canyons tens to hundreds of miles deep. Imagine entire metropolises that are now held in place by giant tether cables hundreds of feet above the ground to prevent them from toppling over since their foundations no longer exist. The only way to get anywhere now is winding staircases, mining elevators or flying pods as all the roads have been mined out.

 

Sounds like fun gameplay to me.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Marnetstapler

[MaxTrevors]

These are all good ideas.

[DooM_RO]

11 hours ago, Marnetstapler said:

If all of Earth's energy resources are depleted and that's what lead to the need to use argent energy, then why not have Earth portrayed as being turned into a giant quarry as mankind desperately struggles to squeeze every last resource out of Earth's crust? Everywhere you look is a canyon, a ledge or cave, entire major cities have been destroyed and what remains of them is now built into artificially made canyons tens to hundreds of miles deep. Imagine entire metropolises that are now held in place by giant tether cables hundreds of feet above the ground to prevent them from toppling over since their foundations no longer exist. The only way to get anywhere now is winding staircases, mining elevators or flying pods as all the roads have been mined out.

 

Sounds like fun gameplay to me.

 

I like this!