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Ultraviolet

Cyberpunk.

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Does anyone realize that the "Cyberpunk" age is now fully upon us in the US?

One element of "cyberpunk" fiction that has already become reality is summarized in this post:
http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9879

...and the other element is the technology, right? Well, whether most people realize it or not, we're there. Go read articles on wired.com. Just think, if money wasn't a problem, we would be using technology in every-day life surpassing that of popular science fiction such as Star Trek. (We might not have the speed, but the weapons technology we could easily surpass. Just read up on Tesla.)

The sad part is that economics is what keeps us from using this stuff. The US alone has the technological means and resources (not money, but everything else) to "save the world." What excuse do the US and the rest of the rich and developped nations of the world have for not doing so?

Why does science fiction always have to be so prophetic?

I was feeling a bit stupid when I wrote this, so I hope it doesn't get PH'ed...

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It's all do-able.

There's an article on wired.com talking about how it is now possible to mount cameras on a pair of glasses and feed those cameras through some processor and then stick electrodes on the brain-end of the optic nerve (actually, replacing the optic nerve)...

The rig can be modified to do things like nightvision and any other kind of image-manipulation. Superhuman sight.

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Scientists have recently successfully tested the direct neural connection for the world's first cybereye, giving a born-blind man his first taste of sight via a modified webcam wired to his brain's vision center.

A small organization known as the Universal Brotherhood is starting to gain prominence, offering a true interfaith unity catering to welldoers and the needy throughout the United States. This is bad.

There's other stuff. I just can't remember it right now.

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Also, they did cybernetic implants in mice I think, and they were controling the mouse's movements and shit.

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We might not have the speed, but the weapons technology we could easily surpass.

We have all this new 1337 technology, and you come to think of making things to kill stuff with? That's pretty stone-age...

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There was a test done recently where by using adaptive optics, a system of lenses that enhanced eye sight, even those people with 20/20 vision. Basically, a laser (harmless) was bounced off the eyeball, and the path that it split up into was measured and then the adptive optics were used to compensate for the tiny flaws in the cornea.

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the_Danarchist said:

Has anyone built a quantum computer yet?

Yeah, IBM built one that with 7 or so molecules, that added two single-digit integers. IIRC.

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Whee. I hope they don't accidently rip the fabric of the spacetime continuum or something.

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We've got this whole discussion on a Shadowrun board about all the "life imitates game" news stories. Freaky stuff. Especially that part about the Universal Brotherhood. I need to go buy a few tons of bug spray. 0_o

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Heh. Quantum computers don't exploit any kind of bizarre space-time phenomena. They just use and manipulate the spin state of particles to store information in a way similar to bits in classical memory. Of course the catch is, a quantum bit doesn't have just values 0 or 1. It has "degrees" of zeroness and oneness that can be represented as an eigenvector in a 3-dimensional space or something like that.

I did a small research paper on quantum computing for my super-easy physics class a couple of years ago, so I know a bit about them ^_^

The main promise in a quantum computer isn't so much less size or faster speed as we've seen in classical computers, but rather the fact they can do things which classical computers just plain cannot. One example of this is true randomness. Another is instantaneous data transfer (heard of quantum teleportation?). Quantum computers can factor in linear time, and I believe they break the classical barrier for search time. Sorting is not really any better, though.

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Ultraviolet said:

. The US alone has the technological means and resources (not money, but everything else) to "save the world." What excuse do the US and the rest of the rich and developped nations of the world have for not doing so?


We send prodigious amounts of foriegn aid. But a lot of it is wasted because IT KEEPS GETTING FREAKING STOLEN. Idiots like Robert Mugabe and those wretched Somali clan leaders take our foriegn aid and prevent it from reaching the needy. Your grasp of third-world politics is very limited. If we want to "save the world," the third-world governments must do their part, and they will not. You assume too much.

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Fredrik: Yes, it must have seemed rather cromagnon of me to have put the emphasis on that, but I meant to imply with the "save the world" comment that medical technology has come a long way, and there is a "free energy device" involving perpetually-moving magnets out there that is supposed to be revealed in 2003 (sure, may be a hoax, but the technicalities sounded believable, and no, I don't have a link right now). Food isn't a problem either. If food were a problem, obesity would not be. Greed is the problem, as I'm sure you are aware.

Unfortunately, I must have somehow emphasized destructive technology. It was probably just the most spectacular (not like "spiffy" but like "spectacle-like" -- the meaning of the word "spectacular," but so many people use it as if it implies goodness, so I wrote this long explanation not because I think you're stupid or anything, but because I apparently have to be very careful with my words in this thread...) example of the world's current technological capacity that I could think of. Also, I was thinking about the "cyberpunk age," so I was thinking about oppression, domination, and therefore weapons. Please forgive me for my lack of optimism. Maybe there's another point in this... I was just thinking that nobody wants to be dominated, but with the population problems we are having, it is inevitable. What, then, is the solution? My train of thought went to the word "counter-dominance." What does that mean, I asked myself... ugh... it means violence.

Very soon the entire world will become very black and white.

Woolie Wool: Don't insult me like that, calling my understanding limited. Things like that start flamewars, and I don't appreciate your attempt at displaying superior political knowledge, while trying to use my "lack thereof" as something to promote your own image with. That is all insults are used for.

You damn well know the US has the technology and raw man-power to CHANGE third-world politics rather than working within that system, so the system there doesn't matter, meaning that my understanding of it doesn't matter. Besides, I was aware that the warlords use hunger as a weapon. The fact is that the US doesn't fucking care. The UN doesn't fucking care.

And if you were one of the men that was in Somalia trying to fix things, I'm very sorry to have to see it this way, but you were just sent there as a minimal effort, a token gesture to make the world think that the US/UN were actually doing something about the problem. The personal effort was commendable, but it didn't mean anything.

Even if I'm wrong about that, I have this to fall back on: The problem still exists, and even if the US/UN were doing everything they could, that effort does not outweigh the failure, the fact that the problem still exists.


Everyone, please pardon the long post.

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If we try to change their politics, people are going to carp and bitch and moan about how we should be minding our own business, and there is a good chance at least a few of those people are going to be the same ones that were complaining about the problem of world hunger in the first place!

By the way, the only way to change some of those policies in the third world would be military force, and you probably don't really like that idea. :P

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Ultraviolet said:

, a token gesture to make the world think that the US/UN were actually doing something about the problem. The personal effort was commendable, but it didn't mean anything.

Even if I'm wrong about that, I have this to fall back on: The problem still exists, and even if the US/UN were doing everything they could, that effort does not outweigh the failure, the fact that the problem still exists.

I think you will find that the British troops stayed and sorted most of the problem through to elections?

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Well... that would be one down...
What about everywhere else that hunger is a problem?

Also note that the US alone has the resources to feed the world (possibly an exaggeration, but then again maybe not) and yet most of us here eat more than we should.

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Ultraviolet said:

Fredrik: Yes, it must have seemed rather cromagnon of me to have put the emphasis on that, but I meant to imply with the "save the world" comment that medical technology has come a long way, and there is a "free energy device" involving perpetually-moving magnets out there that is supposed to be revealed in 2003 (sure, may be a hoax, but the technicalities sounded believable, and no, I don't have a link right now).

Hmm...yeah.

There was one such Perpetual Energy Generator (PEG) created. But at the unveiling while the creater of the device stood waiting for his errant son (who had dissapeared earlier that day) to arrive at the ceremony, a stray eyeball was tossed upon the stage. This action prompted the creator to state, "Fine, if you don't want to take perpetual energy seriously, then no power fo you". He then ordered the machine shut off and decided not to pursue the idea any further.

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the_Danarchist said:

Hmm...yeah.

There was one such Perpetual Energy Generator (PEG) created. But at the unveiling while the creater of the device stood waiting for his errant son (who had dissapeared earlier that day) to arrive at the ceremony, a stray eyeball was tossed upon the stage. This action prompted the creator to state, "Fine, if you don't want to take perpetual energy seriously, then no power fo you". He then ordered the machine shut off and decided not to pursue the idea any further.


wave...of..doom!

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Use3D said:

wave...of..doom!

Oh yeah...the wave of DOOM...forgot all about that part.

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Woolie Wool said:

We send prodigious amounts of foriegn aid. But a lot of it is wasted because IT KEEPS GETTING FREAKING STOLEN. Idiots like Robert Mugabe and those wretched Somali clan leaders take our foriegn aid and prevent it from reaching the needy. Your grasp of third-world politics is very limited. If we want to "save the world," the third-world governments must do their part, and they will not. You assume too much.

The United NAtions (which you claim to hate) sends the aid, TO MAKE UP FOR THE IMPERIALIST DAMAGE WE DID TO THOSE THORD WORLD PEOPLE. we owe them. Anyhow, the wars you support (i.e. Afganistan, Iraq etc.) are EXCACTLY what CUTS OFF third world reparation- we cant send food while a bombing is happening. You can make racist claims of tribes and whatever that supposedly control the worlds food supply and can magically steal anything, but the fact is people like YOU- that support "free markets" imperialist-capitalist contolr over thirld world nations are part of the problem

Woolie Wool said:

By the way, the only way to change some of those policies in the third world would be military force, and you probably don't really like that idea. :P

Like Nicaragua, where we killed thousands and ended up with a destroyed country? Or how about our intervention in Iran, where we kicked out the Ayallatola (sp. sorry) and replaced it with much worse? Iran? Soviet invaded Afganistan? We "Changed policies" for sure... but not in any positive way for a person with conscience. Go through ANY examples of US agression in the third world, you find no democracy, stabilization, or modernized markets, just destroyed factories, medical supplies and corpses.

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Xian said:

we cant send food while a bombing is happening.


But how do we kill Saddam if we have to constantly send food to the Iraqi people?

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Woolie Wool said:

But how do we kill Saddam if we have to constantly send food to the Iraqi people?

Poisoned falafels?

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Woolie Wool said:

But how do we kill Saddam if we have to constantly send food to the Iraqi people?

The people must liberate themselves, "freedom cannot be given it must be taken." America would be most hypocritical trying to remove Saddam from power, although i guess it would make sense as an apology for giving it to him.
I was talking about Afganistan by the way, we havent started war with Iraq (technically)

thanks for heling me with spelling IMJack, i owe you

back to the issue of cyberpunk: lookit, apparently protest/free speech is terrorism!

Deal in Works for U.S. to Pay IMF Police Bill
By David A. Fahrenthold
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, September 10, 2002; Page B04

The federal government has preliminarily agreed to reimburse the District for bringing in police officers from other jurisdictions during meetings of the International Monetary Fund and World Bank this month, city officials said yesterday.

Margret Nedelkoff Kellems, the city's deputy mayor for public safety and justice, said last night that the agreement still needs approval from the higher echelons of the U.S. Treasury Department. But, she said, the District now expects the federal government to "assume the majority of the cost, if not all the cost" of bringing in officers from other jurisdictions during protests expected to coincide with the meetings.

Kellems said no exact dollar figure had been agreed upon, but she said she expected the federal government to pay about $5 million, which would cover the cost of about 1,700 outside police officers working Sept. 27, 28 and 29, when the heaviest protests are expected.

A spokeswoman for the Treasury Department declined to comment on the matter last night.

Total police costs during the protests, including the bill for the roughly 1,600 D.C. officers set to work at the event, had been estimated at $8.5 million, Kellems said. She said it was unclear whether the District could afford to pay all of the $3.5 million that might remain after federal reimbursement.

Kellems and D.C. Police Chief Charles H. Ramsey had worried that, without a guarantee of reimbursement, they would not be able to persuade outside jurisdictions to send officers. Yesterday, Ramsey said the preliminary agreement was "good news," though he was concerned that it came just weeks before the protests are to begin.

"We'll do what we can to find [officers who] will come," Ramsey said. "Hopefully it's not too late."

Ramsey said yesterday that he had received commitments for 1,400 officers from other departments -- some of them local, some of them as far away as North Carolina, Massachusetts and Ohio.

"We haven't gone to a lot of other major cities" seeking officers, Kellems said. "Now . . . we'll go to the Chicagos and the Atlantas." Indeed, Ramsey said last night that he felt the Chicago Police Department, where he spent many years, would send officers.

The meetings of the IMF and World Bank will be held Sept. 28 and 29 at the two organizations' headquarters downtown. But the protests, led by a hodgepodge of groups representing anti-capitalist, anti-globalization, anarchist and other causes, are scheduled to begin Sept. 25.

For police, the most ominous protest is planned for Sept. 27, a Friday, on which the District-based Anti-Capitalist Convergence has announced a "People's Strike." Organizers have said that they will block traffic and that "businesses, governmental institutions, schools and streets will be shut down, and in many senses reopened to new uses."

Ramsey said yesterday that if the strike succeeds in paralyzing parts of the city, it could hinder police and fire crews from getting to emergencies, or even provide cover for a terrorist attack.

"If some poor [person] has a heart attack, how do you get an ambulance in there?" Ramsey said. "I just don't think they're thinking about the consequences of shutting down a major city."

© 2002 The Washington Post Company

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