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Linguica

Commander Keen is Doomguy's dad?

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Does this mean Doomguy has to commit quadruple patricide to finish MAP32?

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More like late news!

 

 
And incidentally, it was Spear of Destiny Mission 3: Ultimate Challenge that established Hitler had used the artifact's magic powers to see far into the distant future with plans to steal technology from a vast space conglomerate known as the Union Aerospace Corporation to use against the Allies. BJ personally put an end to this devious plan.
 
 

 

Edited by Revenant100

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So Tom Hall confirmed that Doomguy's family name is Blazcawiz.

 

Now the question is what is the relationship between this Blazcawiz fellow and the Blazkowicz family.

 

1 hour ago, Glaice said:

Does this mean Doomguy has to commit quadruple patricide to finish MAP32?

More distressingly, it means that Keen never aged and remained a child all his life. Apparently he made three clones of himself, perhaps to try to various experimental cures, but evidently none of them worked and they eventually all committed suicide in the old Nazi castle from which their grandfather famously escaped. Perhaps this act is what summoned the vengeful cyberdemon here. Anyways, as neither Keen nor any of his clones ever grew to adulthood means that Doomguy's mother is a criminal.

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4 minutes ago, Gez said:

More distressingly, it means that Keen never aged and remained a child all his life. Apparently he made three clones of himself, perhaps to try to various experimental cures, but evidently none of them worked and they eventually all committed suicide in the old Nazi castle from which their grandfather famously escaped. Perhaps this act is what summoned the vengeful cyberdemon here. Anyways, as neither Keen nor any of his clones ever grew to adulthood means that Doomguy's mother is a criminal.

 

Maybe that's why he killed himself. Living as a child for all eternity could really take it's toll on you.

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Maybe all four Keens in MAP32 are clones. That would explain why they are young. A clone isn't an exact copy of you fully formed with all your memories. A clone is basically your identical twin born as a baby.

 

Then again, the Keens don't sound human, so maybe they aren't even clones, but robot replicas.

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Idk guys, the setup for a larger id-verse has pretty much fallen in id's lap. If Quake Champion's lore is taken as canon, the Doom Slayer IS the Doomguy (DS's lore artifact is Daisy's foot which QC states DS keeps in his suit), and BJ and Ranger both exist within the game as well. If you want to count Keen's helmet in 2016, it's there. It's an oddball easter egg for sure, but accepting easter eggs/callbacks as canon has been id Software tradition for some time now. If I recall correctly, the final boss in Spear of Destiny was a demon because it acted as a prelude to Doom.

 

Personally, I think, since the RPG's went and tied them all together anyway, they might as well just establish it as canon. I think it's a cool little easter egg for the fans of id Software who are truly obsessed.

Edited by The Mysterious Moustachio

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6 hours ago, Linguica said:

 

I dunno... no thanks...

 

It makes you wonder if Tom Hall's IQ is 314....

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"neeK rednammoC, rehtaf ruoy llik tsum uoy, emag eht niw oT" 

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1 hour ago, The Mysterious Moustachio said:

Idk guys, the setup for a larger id-verse has pretty much fallen in id's lap. If Quake Champion's lore is taken as canon, the Doom Slayer IS the Doomguy (DS's lore artifact is Daisy's foot which QC states DS keeps in his suit), and BJ and Ranger both exist within the game as well.

The whole "large id-universe thing" has been present since Quake 3.  Doomguy, Phobos and Crash all hail from the Doom universe, Ranger's from Quake, and Bitterman, Grunt, Major and Tank Jr. are all from the Quake 2 universe.  It's not a stretch to presume all id's games interlink in some tangential way.

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I kinda like the idea of Billy Blaze being Doomguy's father. 

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5 hours ago, Gez said:

So Tom Hall confirmed that Doomguy's family name is Blazcawiz.

 

Now the question is what is the relationship between this Blazcawiz fellow and the Blazkowicz family.

 

More distressingly, it means that Keen never aged and remained a child all his life. Apparently he made three clones of himself, perhaps to try to various experimental cures, but evidently none of them worked and they eventually all committed suicide in the old Nazi castle from which their grandfather famously escaped. Perhaps this act is what summoned the vengeful cyberdemon here. Anyways, as neither Keen nor any of his clones ever grew to adulthood means that Doomguy's mother is a criminal.

 

Maybe Doomguy is transgendered?

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You know, I never paid attention to any of those theories, but Tom Hall confirming one of them? Damn...

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6 hours ago, Gez said:

they eventually all committed suicide in the old Nazi castle from which their grandfather famously escaped.

Castle Wolfenstein was destroyed by Allied bombing shortly following the defeat of Heinrich I at the orders of BJ himself.

 

 

This is not to contradict your theory, however. Note that Doom 2's intermission screens make sure to specify that the secret Wolfenstein levels take place within a "corner of Hell", meaning the castle is no longer among our earthly realm. This is further supported by the fact that both secret maps use the RSKY3 Hell sky texture rather than the terrestrial RSKY2 sky texture used in the immediately preceding MAP15.

 

So Keen and his Keen brethren are indeed most certainly hung in Castle Wolfenstein, but they had to go to Hell first to get there. What consequences does this have to our theories? 🤔

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This hurts my head,for a game about shooting demons from hell to whatever this is :P

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There are several disturbing implications to this:

  • Keen dies and apparently he did something so bad that he's sent to hell. There are four of him, implying that either:
    • Keen cloned himself and all his clones were punished too
    • OR maybe they're all clones that are evil for some reason, and Keen himself is not evil
    • OR maybe maybe one of then is Keen, and demons cloned him to increase his suffering
  • Doomguy's reward for completing the secret levels and defeating the Cyberdemon on MAP32 is that he's forced to kill his own grandfather
  • The Doom games are set in the Commander Keen universe. Remember how Keen 1 was set on Mars? Probably the hell portals opened there too, since the teleportation experiments were being conducted in orbit. All those poor defenceless Yorps probably got turned into zombies.

 

This actually makes for some potentially interesting fan mods:

  • A Doom or Keen mod where Doomguy or maybe some kind of hero yorp must fight against the demon invasion of Mars (maybe like D2TWID MAP31)
  • Maybe a fan-made Keen game where Keen clones himself four times but the clones turn out to be evil, explaining MAP32
  • Some kind of story about the UAC invading Mars, maybe featuring Doomguy's father / Keen's son

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28 minutes ago, fraggle said:

There are several disturbing implications to this:

  • Keen dies and apparently he did something so bad that he's sent to hell. There are four of him, implying that either:
    • Keen cloned himself and all his clones were punished too
    • OR maybe they're all clones that are evil for some reason, and Keen himself is not evil
    • OR maybe maybe one of then is Keen, and demons cloned him to increase his suffering

True, Keen did likely die at some point, but it's not a given that he did something heinous and was sent to Hell as punishment.

 

1. It is entirely possible that the denizens of Hell, in an effort to torment Doomguy (which they would probably delight in given the suffering he was causing throughout Hell), created four monsters that looked like Keen (which would explain why Keen shows up as a "monster"*) and then forced Doomguy to kill them in order to progress.

 

(Although, seeing as how they implemented their plan in the super secret level, it wasn't the best plan from a "forcing torture and torment on the guy" standpoint.)

 

2. If the hell portals opened on Mars, and Keen had settled down on Mars to work or to raise his family, perhaps Keen got sucked into Hell. Perhaps he's been fighting all this time in some other corner of Hell. Since Hell is clearly not linear from a temporal standpoint (the amount of time that passed , there's nothing to say that the portal didn't suck the adult Keen (from sometime after Doomguy was conceived) into Hell and it isn't a kid who's been fighting through the demonic hordes this whole time, but an adult.

 

11 hours ago, Revenant100 said:

Doom 2's intermission screens make sure to specify that the secret Wolfenstein levels take place within a "corner of Hell"

  • And if Keen has been kicking ass and taking names during his time in Hell (not unreasonable that this predilection would run in the family), then maybe the Keens were never meant for Doomguy, but actually for Keen himself. Think about it. Keen has been devastating the forces of Hell (in his little corner of Hell) and fights his way into this old Hell castle, defeats a bunch of Nazis, a rogue Cyberdemon, and then finds four "copies" of himself hung and his only way out is to kill "himself" four times over. Even if he could rationalize that those things hanging in front of his eyes aren't really him, killing them and watching "himself" die, would probably still seriously mess with him in some way. And it fits far better into the "force torture and torment on the guy" angle if they were meant for Keen and not Doomguy.

 

* And the Keens within the game are certainly monsters. They're not just things that you can interact with. Try playing a level that relies on a Keen dying and play it with the -nomonsters flag. Congratulations, you just broke your level.

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Keen was cloned by Mortimer McMire, he used them for evil, but was ultimately defeated, the clones were sent to D2's MAP32 or something i dunno honeslty

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17 hours ago, Bauul said:

The whole "large id-universe thing" has been present since Quake 3.  Doomguy, Phobos and Crash all hail from the Doom universe, Ranger's from Quake, and Bitterman, Grunt, Major and Tank Jr. are all from the Quake 2 universe.  It's not a stretch to presume all id's games interlink in some tangential way.

I remember a Q3 mod called Generations that aimed to mesh the multiplayer experiences of the previous games into one. They also highlighted the differences by grouping said characters into one of five "game" factions and giving them their respective weapon sets and item sets. I think they tried to implement the different movement physics for three factions as well; the Doom faction moved very fast but didn't jump very high (no idea about wall running or SR40), the Quake 1 faction had bunnyhopping and air control, and the Quake 2 faction had strafejumping and that "jumping on slopes" speed boost thing. Very Samsara-ish in execution, before that was a thing.

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On 1/31/2018 at 5:49 PM, The Mysterious Moustachio said:

It's an oddball easter egg for sure, but accepting easter eggs/callbacks as canon has been id Software tradition for some time now.

So where does Nicholas Raine fit in all this? Or should we just consider RAGE a bad dream (dare I say...Nightmare?!) of Doomslayer while he was entombed?

I can't even imagine trying to get insurance in the Earth of id's universe. First the Nazi empire, then the Hell invasion and next the Strogg (or vice versa), and maybe sometime a giant asteroid too. Would there even be anyone that isn't the protagonists alive on Earth at some point?

EDIT: Even more interesting, that means the winner of Quake III would have been Doomguy since his story (so far) is the only one explored since then via Single Player; he was returned to his realm when he won. Everyone else is dead. Tying unrelated franchises together is weird. 

Edited by Johnatone

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6 hours ago, Impie said:

Pretty sure Hall was trolling guys.

Probably, but I'm still a big fan of the id-verse theory. It's fun to entertain.

 

6 hours ago, Johnatone said:

I can't even imagine trying to get insurance in the Earth of id's universe. First the Nazi empire, then the Hell invasion and next the Strogg (or vice versa), and maybe sometime a giant asteroid too.

 

I suppose Rage could take place a bit before Doom 2016 since that seems like the kind of power starved, post-apocalyptic world that would benefit greatly from infinite argent energy...

 

Which would probably put it after Doom II in the "timeline". I think Quake II would actually make more sense taking place during or after Doom 2016, seeing as the UAC is providing more than enough energy to supply a huge invasion of the Strogg homeworld. That being said, I never finished Q4, so that could possibly throw a wrench in the theory.

 

Now that I think about it, the BFG 9000 is still the active model in Doom 2016 whereas, in Quake II, it's the BFG 10000.

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On 1/31/2018 at 8:42 PM, Linguica said:

 

I dunno... no thanks...

I dunno... no thanks...

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