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Grimosaur

VINESAUCE DOOM MAPPING CONTEST 2.

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26 minutes ago, Anthropophagus89 said:

I agree. I'm trying to push out wads for Joel to play but since most other who playtested seems burnt out on playing doom and with me having no real Doom Wad experience, it takes time. I think things will speed up soon though.

 

Then perhaps consider taking @Jimmy on board as he's already made it clear that he is interested and very skilled in this department! :)

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5 minutes ago, Joelskelethor said:

Hello everybody, Joel here. Sadly I lost my last account so I'm using my twitter to log on here.
 

First I'd like to apologize once again for the wait and delay in the DOOM streams. Its been an overwhelming task on not only me but the moderators volunteering to help me out. Around the holidays everybody is busy with families, jobs, school and the vetting process has slowed down a bit. I am very grateful that you're all so patient with me.

I am only human and getting through these WADs live but also to put on semi-entertaining streams can be a bit daunting. If you've created a WAD for this and waited a long while and grown frustrated, I fully understand. If you want to release the WAD publicly before I get to it I have no problem with it, I've got none other than myself to blame for the long wait. I didn't expect so many WADs this time around and its certainly something I have to take into account for the next time we do something similar. Once again, I am eternally grateful for your patience and continued support, I do these WAD streams because I love the DOOM community  and I feel its very important I stay in touch and keep you guys updated on the status of this.

 

I have taken on further help with the judging of the WADS, I have sent Jimmy a request and hopefully his support can be of much help with this. If anybody else wants to help, send me an email if you didn't receive a response back please send me another email and I will get to it ASAP.

Thanks for the continued support, things will speed up from now on. Thank you.

 

No problem man.

 

If there is ever another context, may I suggest that instead of only a map limit there is also a size limit? By size limit, I mean something along the lines of "map can only exist within a 4096x4096 area of the grid". It would result in shorter maps that are easier to play through.

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I'd suggest a time limit, such as "map can be finished in less than 10 minutes", perhaps even with some gameplay mod that automatically ends the level after 21000 tics. It would force people to make maps that are short and sweet, otherwise most of their work won't be seen (and won't factor in the judging).

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53 minutes ago, Gez said:

I'd suggest a time limit, such as "map can be finished in less than 10 minutes", perhaps even with some gameplay mod that automatically ends the level after 21000 tics. It would force people to make maps that are short and sweet, otherwise most of their work won't be seen (and won't factor in the judging).

 

Problem with that is that Joel has been known for getting lost in the maps or missing obvious things which sometimes forces him to backtrack considerably. It would not be fair towards a mapper if his map can't be finished simply because Joel got lost or missed something.

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Thank you for showing up and clearing up some things @Joelskelethor. The contest has been a wild ride with tons of interesting and cool stuff that people have come up with, hope to see a new stream soon

Edited by DMPhobos

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1 hour ago, hardcore_gamer said:

 

Problem with that is that Joel has been known for getting lost in the maps or missing obvious things which sometimes forces him to backtrack considerably. It would not be fair towards a mapper if his map can't be finished simply because Joel got lost or missed something.

It's their fault for not Joel-proofing their maps.

 

If you make a map for a contest, you tailor your map for the contest's requirement. It's no different from making a map with any other sort of limitation on it, like the 1monster, 1024-square, or ten sectors stuff.

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20 minutes ago, Gez said:

It's their fault for not Joel-proofing their maps.

 

If you make a map for a contest, you tailor your map for the contest's requirement. It's no different from making a map with any other sort of limitation on it, like the 1monster, 1024-square, or ten sectors stuff.

I do agree, that what was a big stream killer were the maps that even went longer than like 20 minutes, at least considering joel's ability and the sheer amount of maps to play. Some were good but having a single map that hogged sometimes a whole third of the stream or even lasted 2 streams are kinda ridiculous.

 

Personally rather than trying to gauge map or file size, I thought a personal timer would have worked best, where joel maybe gave each map 15 minutes of playtime and then moved on, or played 5 more if chat wanted. but limit it by time played so mapsize isn't an issue

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4 hours ago, Joelskelethor said:

I have taken on further help with the judging of the WADS, I have sent Jimmy a request and hopefully his support can be of much help with this. If anybody else wants to help, send me an email if you didn't receive a response back please send me another email and I will get to it ASAP.

Thanks for the continued support, things will speed up from now on. Thank you.

 

Thank you for the update Joel!  There have been some brilliant maps and we're glad to hear the contest isn't dead.  Definitely lean on Jimmy's experience, not just on testing the wads but also any ideas he has on how to run any future competitions.  He's a legend in the community for good reason, and knows more about how to organize a lot of people making maps than most.

 

I too would second the idea of a "short maps only" rule.  Not only would it make it quicker to play through the maps, but it would also help improve the quality of the maps, and would even make for more interesting stream content.  

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Thank you so much for the update, Joel. Glad to hear you're getting some new help, and congratulations to Jimmy for reaching out and giving help!

 

As one of the mappers who's map you played, I was very pleased with your stream (somehow I luckily managed to start watching the moment you started streaming mine, heh!), and I've been keeping up to date with the Doom streams since, and I am looking forward to the new ones.

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Hey Joel, thanks for stopping by here and posting an update!  I've enjoyed the Doom contest streams and I think you've done an admirable job considering how many wads were submitted.  It really is an insane amount of content to play through!

 

You'll get a big +1 from me for accepting Jimmy's help, he definitely knows his stuff and he's always been super helpful to me.  I think I sent you an email shortly after the first competition to see if you wanted help, but I'm not sure if you saw it.  If you need any extra help, let me know.

 

Also I agree that setting some sort of play time limit in the rules would be a good idea (if you do another contest).  Of course this isn't something that can be exact; it would have to be more of a soft limit because of how people play the game differently.  I'd say something like "try to keep the play time around 10-15 minutes max" and hopefully that would be enough for the mapper's to abide by.

 

If you'd like to try something a bit different, maybe consider a deathmatch-map contest?  Those kinds of maps are usually much faster to make and you could play through them pretty quickly.  Maybe even have some of your friends and/or the community jump in for the games.  It's just an idea if you want to mix things up a bit.

 

Anywho, I'll be looking forward to the future streams :)

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@Mechadon Will you be releasing your map that you entered?  I'm still very interested in checking it out since you were posting pictures of it on the Twitter a year ago.  (And forgive me if you released it already and I totally missed it :p)

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3 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Mechadon's map for the contest is actually now in Eviternity as MAP24.

 

4 minutes ago, Dragonfly said:

Heavily reworked, of course! It's in a muuuuch better place now imho - Mechadon did a wonderful job on this.

Oh, kickass.  I knew he did MAP24, but I didn't know it was the vinesauce map.

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Yup, my submission is in Eviternity!  I assume Joel will be releasing all of the contest submissions again like he did last time.  So if anyone wants to play the more vanilla~ish version, you'll be able to check it out then.  The Eviternity version is the better map in just about every sense though (because I procrastinated until the last week of the contest like a dummy).

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18 minutes ago, Mechadon said:

Yup, my submission is in Eviternity! 

 

Joel is in for a treat then! Map24 is probably my favorite Eviternity map (sorry DF!). I almost get a Viggles Brigandine vibe from it that makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.

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2 hours ago, Bauul said:

 

Joel is in for a treat then! Map24 is probably my favorite Eviternity map (sorry DF!). I almost get a Viggles Brigandine vibe from it that makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.

 

What!?

 

Nah, I think a lot of the best maps are made in the form of guest maps - They're made by many I consider to be the community's best mappers after all!

 

I think if I had more time to craft each level and not focus on making a full megawad... well, maybe I'd be competing. :P

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On 12/22/2018 at 4:20 AM, LF222 said:

What we need is a way to tell if our WADs have been declined or not

Any suggestion how to make that happen? I mean, you could ask me and I'll let you know, but if you have a better idea, let me know. 

If you're aamlf222_windy on twitch - your map was approved.

 

Also, little update; all the wads have been playtested. Huge thanks to Jimmy and Adamant Archvile for the help!

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On 12/24/2018 at 5:01 AM, Anthropophagus89 said:

Any suggestion how to make that happen? I mean, you could ask me and I'll let you know, but if you have a better idea, let me know. 

I was thinking that the "contest is over" screen at https://contest.vargskelethor.me/ could lead to a constantly updating list of wads in the contest, upkept through a google doc or something of the sort

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Weird thing about the time limit is that sometimes Joel takes sidetracks to talk about various things instead of playing the wad (which isn't a bad thing really, sometimes it's about interesting stuff, but bad for a time limit on a contest). Seems like it could get into some weird territory there, either making Joel feel bad for not knowing whether the time limit settled on was followed faithfully enough or not. Not sure the time spent in the map on the minimap would be accurate.

 

Honestly I'm having trouble thinking of a good way to even do it, even map size alone isn't the best way (e.g. limited to 1024x1024 pixels, obviously way bigger than that but as an example only) but it might be more fair than a time limit. But maybe there is another way not thought of yet. Best faith would also help things along, but since it is technically a contest still best to try to keep things as objective as possible... I think it is a bit of a conundrum for future contests. 

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6 hours ago, DMPhobos said:

Thanks for the heads up! Missed it live, but I watched the VOD.

 

Really unfortunate that Joel didn't like it, and that some portion of chat thought it was untested. HMP (which Joel played) was meant to be slaughter-for-everyone (which of course includes Joel). I tested it exhaustively on HMP and UV, and thought HMP would be a nice fat softball of slaughter for anyone who's familiar with Doom 2. It appears that I failed!


Anyways, here's @MegaBlast having zero worries on HMP, if any of those people saying "wow so untested" in Joel's chat are interested in seeing how it's done (at 4 hours and 1 minute; rewind to watch him play UV if you really want to see some shit):

 

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/355240579?t=04h1m

 

And you can play it yourself here: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/103490-the-egg-of-human-endeavors-rc2/

Edited by Benjogami

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Chatters generally always side on the streamer or their emotional side at the least even if it's of no fault of your own. Wouldn't get too worried about the situation we all know you are a great mapper. Joel aggressively bumbles into encounters while mismanaging weapon usage. With his style of TarnsmanDW saving he shoves himself into head first into the quicksand and he repeatedly has to extricate himself out.

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