The importance and use of skies in Doom

[leodoom85]

I don't know if this specific piece of the map, well known in Doom, has been touched. 

In any case, skies in Doom are necessary to have a nice atmosphere according to the theme of the map. Hell maps? usually have a sky with a red tone to it. Earth-themed maps? Night skies or cloudy sky with some color. Space maps? mostly a beautiful starry sky with some planets or some comets in it. And there's also the 6-side skyboxes which comes in all flavors.

Skies represents a part of the gameplay which the player might feel that it's in there, in that place which identifies the tone of the map. But sometimes, skies are not used in some specific themes, like a void space full of nothingness (there are well known maps with that setting) or in an ocean, at the bottom of the sea (just like one of my maps) or something like that. Also, there's this animated and characteristic sky used for the hell maps in the PSX version of Doom and also in Doom 64. There are so many skies to count that I don't have the time to tell or remember but, yeah, skies are a key component in the map.

 

Tell me what you think. You think that skies are a must to insert into the map? That skies are not that important or relevant to the map? And also, which is your favorite sky?

Mine is the beautiful sky used in the GL sky version of Epic 2 in maps 21 to 32.

 

[Catpho]

I really agree with you that skies are very important to make a good doom map,good use of sky really make a map pop!

About favorite skies,i have too many too remember right now,but i could say mechadon skies are fantastic!

 

Edited February 9, 2018 by Catpho

[Nine Inch Heels]

It depends on what sort of feel you want to have in your map, because that determines what sort of assets you're gonna wanna use to get the point across.

 

Do you need skies for outdoor sections? Most likely you do.

 

Do you need skies for maps that take place deep in caves and such entirely? Maybe not so much.

 

So, is a sky something like a minimum requirement that determines if a map is gonna be any good or not? In my opinion that's not the case. They are a visual asset which can be used in lots of ways. If done right, they can add a lot to a map, sure, but you don't have to use them in each and every map per se.

[Catpho]

Here are some impressive uses (imo):

(They are from:Qboard,JOM 3,Tnt2{wip})

 

[leodoom85]

3 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

So, is a sky something like a minimum requirement that determines if a map is gonna be any good or not? In my opinion that's not the case. They are a visual asset which can be used in lots of ways. If done right, they can add a lot to a map, sure, but you don't have to use them in each and every map per se.

Yeah. That's why I said that sometimes, skies can be replaced with a ceiling when the situation requires to that map and I'm agree with you on that opinion :)

[Decay]

A sky can make all the difference in how a map feels. All you need to do is pick an obviously inappropriate sky (usually bright vs dark skies) and it becomes obvious quickly how important it is to have the right sky.

[leodoom85]

4 minutes ago, Decay said:

A sky can make all the difference in how a map feels. All you need to do is pick an obviously inappropriate sky (usually bright vs dark skies) and it becomes obvious quickly how important it is to have the right sky.

True...........forgot that some people can misuse the skies too
sigh

[Uni]

I think skies and music are two crucial components when it comes to creating the right atmosphere to any given map. 

[seed]

8 hours ago, Uni said:

I think skies and music are two crucial components when it comes to creating the right atmosphere to any given map. 

Precisely this, they're a main factor in creating the atmosphere of the maps so they should be carefully picked (or created).

Edited February 9, 2018 by Agent6

[Fonze]

This just in: Doom 2 has been proven to officially be shit because it uses stock skies, marking the thousandth time it has been scientifically proven to be shit. Next week we'll cover trash-tier resource management on light sources and its effect on bloating a shit wad.

[yakfak]

i think a lot of skies people use nowadays make doom a bit more beautiful than it needs to be :P

[Soundblock]

Major component for creating interesting spatial compositions. I remember being really impressed by the angry orange against marble greens in Ultimate Doom's episode IV sky when I first saw it. Been equally impressed many, many times since but that one sticks with me. PSX hell sky is insane.

[leodoom85]

What about sky viewpoints?

Those can be a hit or miss imo.

[Miss Bubbles]

13 hours ago, Uni said:

I think skies and music are two crucial components when it comes to creating the right atmosphere to any given map. 

Sometimes no sky at all can create an interesting atmosphere too. I always found E3M7 (Limbo) and its total lack of a sky pretty unsettling and claustrophobic. It really makes you feel like you're in some deep part of hell.

[Uni]

5 minutes ago, Miss Bubbles said:

Sometimes no sky at all can create an interesting atmosphere too. I always found E3M7 (Limbo) and its total lack of a sky pretty unsettling and claustrophobic. It really makes you feel like you're in some deep part of hell.

Well of course, it all depends on the setting you're trying to convey. You can also use black/white textures to create "void" or otherwise undefined place which also lacks "sky" texture.

 

[ASD]

I prefer skies that are easy on the eye, such as SKY1 of Doom2. Sky too bright distracts from details of the maps, particularly when shading is used.

[galileo31dos01]

Skies add to gameplay as much as music does, it has to blend well with the map's aesthetics and gameplay, for example Urania's second episode has a plain french blue sky that somehow blends perfect with some of the maps aesthetics/details. EPIC also has light skies, chill adventurous music, and the set is on the exploratory side, all goes well together. Red skies give me the sense that the maps have to be hard in a way or another. Those are examples of skies I may notice but not focus too much on. There are cases where I can feel they don't go well with the rest of the map, like a light blue sky and a spooky midi, or for example TNT's midi Death Bells has to be used in maps with a lot of darkness and/or a very dark sky, because otherwise I wouldn't like the combination, and that's because it's my favourite Doom track. 

[Lila Feuer]

Skies in Doom are just as important as the ceiling color choice in Wolfenstein maps, they can lend a large chunk to the overall atmosphere. Generally however, I think a dark blue sky looks good to just about anything in Doom, as well as orange.

[riderr3]

It's important. But it also depends on which themes/layouts/textures have beens used. And I'm also like blue and orange skies.

As example, my map submission for DWMP2017 in limit-removing format, so I decided to make whole underground map in hellish setting, cause there will no boom sky transfer feature. So there will no unappropriate default skies.

My next Boom project will be featured with some new skies. As example level on cargo ship, where cloudy sky scrolls slowly. Second episode uses wide crimson-cloudy sky which are vertically seamless, so these maps have floating islands and huge towers. The spaceship map contain starry sky which also scrolling, this time diagonally, makes an illusion of space flight. Also late maps contains animated sky similar like PSX Doom fire skies, resembling overall heat and pressure. And level where you starting with night sky, later go to caves, and comes to new place on daylight.

Edited February 11, 2018 by riderr3

[leodoom85]

1 hour ago, riderr3 said:

And level where you starting with night sky, later go to caves, and comes to new place on daylight.

Cool idea you have there man. Like using proper time used for the adventure.

[NoCaloriePepsi]

(Reads OP)

 

Hey man, i'm not crying, there's just something in my eye, I swear.

[leodoom85]

11 minutes ago, -[EVIL]- Pepsi said:

(Reads OP)

 

Hey man, i'm not crying, there's just something in my eye, I swear.

???????????????????????

[Yuki Senmatsu]

I like skies that are either hand drawn or what I find on Shovelware

Edited February 16, 2018 by YukiTakashi : Typo. I type too fast :V

[ukiro]

There's been a lot of good skies in the last few years. Not only has the craftsmanship been on a steady increase, but there have been some new creative uses of the palette too. Two examples spring to mind: The red-and-orange one from Bloodstain is excellent and inspired me to make a few with that color combination. The last episode in Hellbound isn't technically that great done but it works in-game and provides a fantastic mood.

[Doomkid]

A custom sky and custom music can give your map so much more personality. A good map is a good map, but I must admit it strikes me as rather lazy when the author couldn't even be bothered to spend 3 minutes nabbing a MIDI and nice sky texture that suits the mood.

[Spie812]

Skies are definitely useful for setting the mood of a map, but can also be used to add some nice visual contrast into a map. A mapset with a good custom sky is definitely going to be more memorable than the same map with the default sky.

 

No End in Sight's E1 sky is absolutely fantastic.

 

[40oz]

On 2/9/2018 at 10:15 AM, yakfak said:

i think a lot of skies people use nowadays make doom a bit more beautiful than it needs to be :P

The kinds of skies people use -- compared to what? The IWAD skies, or the kinds of skies people don't use?

 

To be clear, when I work on graphics for Doom, there's a certain threshold of ugliness I'm willing to forgive to complement the rest of the game the graphics will be used with. Sometimes an abundance of crisp freshness will enhance the experience in a way that makes you feel less and less like you are playing Doom. Does that sound like what you mean?

 

[yakfak]

58 minutes ago, 40oz said:

The kinds of skies people use -- compared to what? The IWAD skies, or the kinds of skies people don't use?

 

To be clear, when I work on graphics for Doom, there's a certain threshold of ugliness I'm willing to forgive to complement the rest of the game the graphics will be used with. Sometimes an abundance of crisp freshness will enhance the experience in a way that makes you feel less and less like you are playing Doom. Does that sound like what you mean?

 

more or less :3 the amateur touch is important to me.

 

Spoiler

 

this hang-up is just a microcosm of my main hang-up, and i guess i can't exactly explain what i mean and it's only my own taste anyway, but encountering a really impressive sky is a warning sign for me cos I've had so many experiences in various wads where a level has been tastefully made, all the visual elements complimenting each other while the map layout fuses in a master-craftsman way... and has left me completely unmoved. a metaphor for maps like that compared to the stuff I like is... pressing the DEMO button on a synthesizer, hearing the perfectionist, overbearing music that's been programmed into it, and then finding a song where that same synthesizer has been used to make something curious and personal

 

unfortunately this is the sort of feeling that really does strike me when i play maps cos i only play doom to find weird authors

 

 

[Dragonfly]

The sky plays an immensely strong part in giving your map(s) character. It's an important component to any 3D environment, not just games; as skies will help command the colour scheme for the map and and give off feeling (atmosphere, sense of place, time of day, real or fiction, etc etc).

I highly urge you to take a moment to read this, it has really influenced me over the years. It's an old article of the use of colour in Spyro the Dragon (PS1).

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/131581/lessons_in_color_theory_for_spyro_.php 

Take figure 3 from the linked page:



This image shows very quickly how dramatic a different sky can be. The 1st image looks calm, peaceful and welcoming, while the 3rd looks very intimidating. (that's kind of why I'm a bit annoyed that we can't at least use custom sky for DWMP2018)

 

But yeah, in Doom mapping specifically, the sky is probably one of the more important decisions you can make regarding your maps and can turn 'basic maps' into 'great looking masterpieces' with little real effort.

[leodoom85]

50 minutes ago, Dragonfly said:

The sky plays an immensely strong part in giving your map(s) character. It's an important component to any 3D environment, not just games; as skies will help command the colour scheme for the map and and give off feeling (atmosphere, sense of place, time of day, real or fiction, etc etc).

I highly urge you to take a moment to read this, it has really influenced me over the years. It's an old article of the use of colour in Spyro the Dragon (PS1).

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/131581/lessons_in_color_theory_for_spyro_.php 

Take figure 3 from the linked page:



This image shows very quickly how dramatic a different sky can be. The 1st image looks calm, peaceful and welcoming, while the 3rd looks very intimidating. (that's kind of why I'm a bit annoyed that we can't at least use custom sky for DWMP2018)

 

But yeah, in Doom mapping specifically, the sky is probably one of the more important decisions you can make regarding your maps and can turn 'basic maps' into 'great looking masterpieces' with little real effort.

Other games uses "dynamic skies" in order to have a strong immersion for the player, like your example, which changes depending of the situation that the player is facing or it can change the difficulty greatly as a gameplay mechanic. Doom is no different in this since we know that sky transfer actions exists to identify a major theme of the map...