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Dirk

Ultimate Doom & Doom 2: Who designed which levels?

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Is there a master list anywhere that tells you who the main designer was for each level?

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1 minute ago, Catpho said:

Just go to doom wiki 

Pretty much.

 

The author is mentioned on every map's wiki page, like here and here.

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3 hours ago, valkiriforce said:

Or if you don't feel like clicking over 60 separate pages:

This is exactly what I was looking for.  Thank you very much!

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Speaking of, it might be interesting to have the original provenance "credits". I looked for a little while without luck, I think there's got to be a copy of the textfile in the archives, but basically someone inquired directly to id about the per map credits (maybe one of those early archivists like Frans de Vries), and he received a reply from Romero iirc. It was definitely post doom2, but possibly pre-udoom, and probably incomplete in other ways (e.g. I don't think Tom Hall was credited), but still it was an interesting correspondence. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

 

edit: found this, but it only covers doom1 I definitely remember a map-by-map credits list compiled by someone at id, covering doom1 and doom2

Edited by Vorpal

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I know it's kinda off-topic but since we're on the subject on who made what, I always wondered why wasn't Romero more involved in the creation of the second and third episodes? Did he ever stated the reasons for why he hasn't made anything for either of these episodes? 

Edited by Uni

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If it wasn't for Gotcha!, Sandy Petersen would get a perfect FAIL score from me - I really didn't like ANY of the maps he made alone and with that sole named exception I like all the remaining ones. (Wolfenstein maps excluded, of course, they should also give credit for the original's creator.)

 

Really, all the other mappers did good to great work throughout, and this guy churned out one map messier than the last one...

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Jerry.C said:

Really, all the other mappers did good to great work throughout, and this guy churned out one map messier than the last one...

He also did far more than anyone else with less time; if he could've done half as many levels as he did, I think they would've been some really creepy and unique stuff.

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51 minutes ago, Jerry.C said:

If it wasn't for Gotcha!, Sandy Petersen would get a perfect FAIL score from me - I really didn't like ANY of the maps he made alone and with that sole named exception I like all the remaining ones. (Wolfenstein maps excluded, of course, they should also give credit for the original's creator.)

 

Really, all the other mappers did good to great work throughout, and this guy churned out one map messier than the last one...

 

 

But wasn't Gotcha! made by Romero and not Petersen?

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Kinda off-topic but does anyone know which people from Raven made which maps from Heretic?

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It's interesting the map06 and 08 and 20 are made by three different people. I used to think it's made by someone who uses bosses from Doom 1 for various fun activities (map 06 - crushing Spider Mastermind, Map 08 - barons fighting with Cyber and map 20 - Spider Mastermind against Cyberdemon).

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On 2/10/2018 at 5:54 PM, Uni said:

I know it's kinda off-topic but since we're on the subject on who made what, I always wondered why wasn't Romero more involved in the creation of the second and third episode? Did he ever stated the reasons for why he hasn't made anything for either of these episodes? 

I'm paraphrasing here, but from reading the book "The Masters of Doom," Doom 1 became wildly popular for deathmatch, so there were these huge events similar to QuakeCon that would take place, and there was a lot of press attention for Doom that Romero was usually the face of, so Romero was not as present and working in the company as much as he was fostering it's fanbase. JR would probably describe it differently but that's the general reason why he was fired from id software a few years later.

 

EDIT sorry i misread your post thinking you said Doom 2. About Episode 2 and 3, I think, based on what I read, that there was a lot of programming work left to do so they had to hire a new person (Sandy Petersen) to focus on level design so they could complete the rest of game in time for release.

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On 2/10/2018 at 1:47 PM, valkiriforce said:

E4M5: They Will Repent--------Tim Willits and Theresa Chasar

btw this is the first time I've read this name before. Who is this?

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2 minutes ago, 40oz said:

btw this is the first time I've read this name before. Who is this?

Tim Willits sister. She designed the layout, where he did the texturing and thing placement.

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On 2/10/2018 at 1:47 PM, valkiriforce said:

MAP07: Dead Simple-----------American McGee and Sandy Petersen

If I remember correctly, Petersen had designed Map07 and John Romero didn't like the design very much and didn't really want to ship Doom 2 with the level in that current state. American McGee said he had an idea and Romero asked if he could do it by the next day. McGee said he could and the rest is history.

 

I don't remember where I read or heard that story, but that is my recollection.

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If I remember correctly, the beta version of that map was surfaced, although I'm not sure by who or where but Captain Clever and the co-commentators covers it in Evolution of the WAD E2 - Dead Simple Clones(starts out at 10:25).

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On 2/10/2018 at 2:24 PM, Vorpal said:

Speaking of, it might be interesting to have the original provenance "credits". I looked for a little while without luck, I think there's got to be a copy of the textfile in the archives, but basically someone inquired directly to id about the per map credits (maybe one of those early archivists like Frans de Vries), and he received a reply from Romero iirc. It was definitely post doom2, but possibly pre-udoom, and probably incomplete in other ways (e.g. I don't think Tom Hall was credited), but still it was an interesting correspondence. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

 

edit: found this, but it only covers doom1 I definitely remember a map-by-map credits list compiled by someone at id, covering doom1 and doom2


I'd love to know more about this if you find anything out. A few days ago I was just wanting to post a thread asking how the original credits were sourced. Obviously anyone can go on over to the Doom Wiki and find out who made what, but I've never heard of where this information actually came from. That email definitely sheds some light on things, and is pretty much what I suspected being the case (someone just emailing Romero for behind-the-scenes info.) It'd be neat to find out exactly how each level got their correct credits!

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Quote

DOOM level design: i did the first episode, except for level 8 (Sandy did  
it).  And level 4 was a Tom Hall makeover.  In the last 2 episodes, Sandy  
Peterson did mostly new levels, with many of them makeovers of Tom Hall's  
earlier efforts and one level of Shawn Green's.

 

Interesting, this is the first time I read this (supposed) detail regarding the original release of Doom.

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On 10/2/2018 at 3:47 PM, valkiriforce said:

MAP20: Gotcha!---------------John Romero

Wait, really? For a long time I was under the idea that Petersen had designed that one.

 

On 10/2/2018 at 3:47 PM, valkiriforce said:

MAP01: Entryway--------------Sandy Petersen

I was impressed by this as well. I don't like most of the maps made by Sandy, but Entryway is one of my favorites.

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On 2/13/2018 at 6:50 AM, Jaws In Space said:

Tim Willits sister. She designed the layout, where he did the texturing and thing placement.

In addition to that the name was given to a character in Doom 3, the lady in the scene introducing the Lost Soul.

 

I think Doom 3 based a lot of character names after actual people but in this case its used as-is. Weird.

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Gotcha! was Romero consciously trying to imitate Petersen's style.  Judging from this thread, he apparently did a really good job!

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23 minutes ago, KVELLER said:

On 2/10/2018 at 1:47 PM, valkiriforce said:

MAP01: Entryway--------------Sandy Petersen

 

I was impressed by this as well. I don't like most of the maps made by Sandy, but Entryway is one of my favorites.

I had always assumed that Entryway was designed by Romero. I was surprised when I looked it up about a year ago and found out it was Petersen's.

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On 2/10/2018 at 5:24 PM, Vorpal said:

Speaking of, it might be interesting to have the original provenance "credits". I looked for a little while without luck, I think there's got to be a copy of the textfile in the archives, but basically someone inquired directly to id about the per map credits (maybe one of those early archivists like Frans de Vries), and he received a reply from Romero iirc. It was definitely post doom2, but possibly pre-udoom, and probably incomplete in other ways (e.g. I don't think Tom Hall was credited), but still it was an interesting correspondence. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

 

Yes, see here and here from Lee Killough's old site.  IIRC they are inconsistent in a few cases and there was discussion of what seemed plausible, but I don't think anyone ever sought clarification (this was before you could just tweet questions at Romero), relying only on the memory of people from the Usenet era, which we're often forced to do.

 

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3 minutes ago, Xeriphas1994 said:

 

Yes, see here and here from Lee Killough's old site.  IIRC they are inconsistent in a few cases and there was discussion of what seemed plausible, but I don't think anyone ever sought clarification (this was before you could just tweet questions at Romero), relying only on the memory of people from the Usenet era, which we're often forced to do.

 

Awesome, thank you

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