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HeyItsDuke

Is the Doom 3 marine The original Doomguy?

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1 hour ago, Crackers0106 said:

The manual says you landed in a drop pod from mars while in DOOM 1 you never were on mars and just got back to earth from hell.

That doesn't mean much, for all we know the manual writer isn't the same as in Doom 1 so he didn't know about the actual ending to the game. We should ask someone more involved in Doom's development for better information about this.

 

But i really doubt it would be a different character anyways, because, why?

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Yes, He is! I have a long theory about the Doom Marines. But OG Doomguy and Doom3 guy, are the one and the same but different reality just like @memes4lvfe said.

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On 6/6/2019 at 8:54 AM, -TDRR- said:

 Nearing the end of Doom 3, there's the sarcophagus with the image of the Doomguy fending off a wave of demons. That's likely where he was trapped, as the D2016 backstory tells us, so Doom 3 takes place not long before Doom 2016 occurs, when the Doomguy's sarcophagus is found and the new invasion starts.

i just played through doom 3 since i last posted here a few weeks ago trying to piece this stuff all together and i saw that sarcophagus lying there in the excavation room just before cyber-demon. and my heart fluttered, my stomach dropped knowing OG Doom Guy was in there, and how much of a mind blowing experience i was having from something over a decade ago. i truly believe ID planned that! and it's crazy that i can remember looking at that thing during my first play through of doom 3 on original xbox but not paying it much mind at all to the point i forgot about it until seeing it again. Now i don't know if there is any lore on how he was entombed in there. but my head canon i personally like to think after final doom specifically he was trapped in somewhere that the master levels took place in, and eventually overwhelmed him. knowing how hard he is to kill. hell, ultimately locked him up, then based on the fact that there is an excavation room. it suggests the UAC found it in doom 3. just like doom 2016 and there is the tying of plots

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I think it's pretty clear that Doom 3 was a canon reboot, then Doom 4 was another canon reboot. Just like how modern Wolfenstein was a canon reboot and not a sequel to Wolf3D, or all the frequent GTA canon resets. Doom 3 then RoE, with BDG Edition to fill in some prequel elements, really can't work as a sequel to 90s Doom. I also get the strong impression that no one at Bethesda/Zenimax really cares if Doom 4 is canon to 90s Doom or not and probably consider "their version" to be unrelated, if they even care to acknowledge 90s Doom at all. I haven't really paid much attention otherwise, the Master Chief knockoff armor, the ugly monster designs, the questionable marketing and the alt-right sucking up to the game have done more than enough to put me off from so much as reading up on this wannabe let alone ever considering playing it, but they sort of lost me when they ditched the sci-fi author they hired and turned the final product into Brutal Doom: Retail Edition because "gimmick kills" > actual story with effort, apparently. Maybe it's telling the fact Dusk was salvaged from the remnants of a cancelled Doom 4 and anything more like 90s Doom was also passed over during production. I don't even think it's unfair to say Bethesda neglects a franchise they obtained- they didn't create Fallout either and look how they treat that.

 

Doom 3 doens't really work as a sequel either, there would be no sense in the UAC going back to Mars after the invasion, let alone no one mentions a prior invasion and all the monsters look different- even if we assume 100 years or so has gone by a past invasion that nearly wiped out the Earth would be mentioned if another took place. The tablets were a reference, nothing else. Really aside from a few shared plot elements, it could have been a different franchise. Betruger had great potential to be a lead villain but they wasted him and BFG Edition's attempt at a backstory really felt forced like the needed some excuse other than "possessed/influenced by the devil" to justify him.

 

I also do not regard PSX Doom nor Doom 64 as canon to PC Doom nor were they ever intended to be. PSX Doom was a port with certain superficial changes meant to sell it on yet another console, while Doom 64 was meant as a sequel to that port only going by it using the same sound effects. Neither were actually made by Id- Midway produced both. Likewise for SNES, 32X, Jaguar, GBA, etc, all ports to sell more copies.

 

Doom RPG seems to also be its own canon, and I was never really sure where to fit in Final Doom, as both WADs were independent fan projects that were licensed by Id for commercial release at the last minute and seem to have conflicting "stories". Then the novels were also their own thing that diverged heavily due to the writers' religious beliefs and I'll be honest, Arlene was an obnoxious character that didn't do anything to make the reader like her while Doomguy was a bit of a wimp from book 2 onward- but book 2 onward were not good overall.

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Here's my shitty theory about the Doom marine (you):

 

Original timeline: (First Generation 1993-2004)

 

Ultimate Doom->Doom2->Final Doom (two split timelines or both canon)->Doom64 = Original Doom Marine, You.

Spoiler

You "Doom Marine" got to Mars, home of the UAC as a punishment for having assaulted your superior officer. Now you are working for the UAC as a janitor but then an emergency occured and you and your buddies (the only combat troop) were sent up to Phobos and you, only you were at the Doom's Gate. Upon killing Spider Mastermind in Hell, you realized she had sent its legions of Hell-Spawn before you reached Dis and now your next stop is Hell on Earth. You battle the demons and save humanity after closing the Hell-Hole in Earth by entering in it and killing its creator: the Icon of Sin, the only one able to open massive Hell Holes and sucking everything into Hell (this could explain why there are some Earth buildings in Hell). You save the Earth and now it must be rebuilt after killing all of the remaining demons in No Rest For The Living.

In Final Doom Episode: you could consider playing TNT first and then Plutonia or you can also consider them as two separated timelines, you choose your destiny:

After having beaten the icon of Sin and its minions, the UAC was worried about another Hellish invasion and then decided to move to another place in the galaxy: Io, Jupiter's moon and then, UAC soldiers became warriors that were fighting Hell every time  demons teleported themselves in our dimension as you became their Master. But later Hell sent its Space ship to invade Io, only you survived this invasion and you decide to revenge your fallen soldiers. You find another Hell Hole in Io and you reached Hell going through it and then you beat the Demon-Spitter (another Icon of Sin). You are back on Earth and the UAC and governments took steps to prevent another Demon invasion, but this time they built an interesting actifact called the "Quantum Accelerator" a device able to close Demon portals instantly but Hell was even smarter: It sent its legions to take the Quantum Accelerator and its prototypes and Hell started to used them to change our reality and thus creating alternated dimensions were you travelled to fight Hell and defeating the Gatekeeper (another Icon of Sin). You thought you were finally done even you thought telling your grandkids to put a rocket launcher in your coffin if you go to Hell when you die but...You were wrong...absolutely wrong...The Mother Demon, a demon that is from higher Hellish dimensions have come to resurrect all of the Demons you killed once and even those located in Phobos. You were re-assigned to a new mission: Go back to Phobos and kill them all. You never thought you were going back to Phobos again, it was just like story was repeating again. The first time you fought Hellish forces you were too tough to be contained in Hell but this time...You were finally contained in Hell. All Hell wanted is You. Your Doom. The End.


 

 

Second timeline: (Second Generation 2004-2016)

 

Doom3->Doom2->Final Doom (two split timelines or both canon)->Doom64 = Original Doom Marine, You.

 

Other Marines in Doom3-> Resurrection/Lost Missions= Bravo Team Guy >Resurrection of Evil= Marine Combat Engineering Guy. Two years later.

Spoiler

You "Doom Marine" were sent to Mars, home of the UAC in order to replace a lost marine. Your first mission was finding Dr. Jonathan Ishii that wanted to alert Earth about the diabolical things happening on Mars but a Hell invasion occured and you were there to tell it. You were battling Hellish forces in the base until you received orders from Sargent Kelly to alert the Fleet but UAC admin Elliot Swann ordered you not to do it (if you do. you have alerted the Fleet to come and demons will take their ships to bring this Hell to Earth. If you don't, Betruger will do it himself and demons will take their ships to bright this Hell to Earth,hahahahaha) Later you realized Betruger is the one behind the invasion and he the Mastermind for the forces of Hell. Once you get Hell and defeating the Guardian, you gloat over its steaming corpse and you were able to recover the Soul Cube from the stinking claws of Hell. Now you are back on Mars and you must defeat Sabaoth, the demonic form of Sargeant Kelly, once you kill him you reached Site 3: (in this part Doom3 became a different story with these mysterious tablets where the fourth tablet shows a man that looks like you, wear the same armor like you and also carries the Soul Cube, just like you. here you realize you are seeing your future written in the past, a past you have never seen or been before. Your future has been revealed to you by other you in the past. Now you are on the final level of Doom 3 and you see a sarcophagus in the Chamber's Hero. You are the one who is looking at that sarcophagus and the one who's inside that sarcophagus; Cyberdemon awaits for you and you were able to kill him with the help of the Praeleanthor (the Soul Cube)

Betruger realized you were too tough to contain and now he plays fair--for you having closing the Hell-Hole and stopping the invasion to rest for 3 days until the Supply ship entered the base and found you safe and sound. You save the Mars base by killing and killing and killing. What they don't say when you reach Earch is that you were the only survivor. Little you know that the Fleet reached Mars after the alert message and were killed by the Demons, including the Resurrection/Lost missions Bravoguy (Doom3 Resurrection for Ipod and Lost Missions episodes. Lost missions mirrors the events present in Doom3 Resurrection) and demons took their ships. Next stop: Hell on Earth.

 

Two years later: Resurrection of Evil. (it might break the canon)

                                                                               

Second alternate timeline: (Second Generation 2004-2016)

 

Doom RPG->Doom2->Final Doom (two split timelines or both canon)->Doom64 = Original Doom Marine, You.    

 

Other Protagonists in this timeline: Doom2 RPG = Stan Blazkowicz and friends. One year later.

Spoiler

You "Doom Marine" got sent to Mars in order to fight a demonic invasion in the UAC. A scientist said: "We're Doomed" upon seeing you were the only one sent to fight the demons, but he was wrong... you made your way out through the base and realized the UAC admins are behind this or may even be possesed by something. You are helped by Dr. Kelvin and Dr.Jenkins to find out who is the responsible to activate the Reactor Core and thus freeing the demons from their prison, it was nobody else that Dr. Guerard also known as Kronos, a scientist that was fired upon travelling to another Dimension and fusing human technology with demon flesh to create a super weapon (Cyberdemon) but he is back and you fought Kronos in his true form: A demonic creature that belongs to higher Hellish Dimensions with extreme power and being the Mastermind of demons. You kill him and you also destroy his power couplings that were having the portal active. Once you destroyed them, a creature managed to go through: the Cyberdemon! An evil being that was searching for you to get his revenge of what your ancestor did in the past. But you were too tough to be defeated and the Cyberdemon died first. You save the Mars base by killing and killing and killing and now you are making your way home. What they don't say about you is that you were the only survivor. Next stop: Hell on Earth.

 

One year later, some marine detachment were sent to Mars to see what happened there, but they did't get any results. They thought that some kind of explotion or pandemia affected the base. Once they were heading to Earth, they receive a distress call from the Moon base that something evil started to appear in the base. They battled the invasors only to realize UAC bases on Earth were invaded as well. Now Stan Blazkowicz, Kira Morgan and Riley O'connor must stop this Hell on Earth in Doom2 RPG (it might break the canon).

 

Third timeline: (Third Generation 2016-Present)

 

First timeline->Doom2016->Doom Eternal

Second timeline->Doom2016->Doom Eternal

Second Alternate timeline->Doom2016->Doom Eternal

Spoiler

You can find many references to these timelines in Doom 2016.

You "Doom Marine" found yourself in Site 3 base on Mars, home of the UAC, inside a sarcophagus awaking after a voice in your mind spoked to you. It seems you don't know what you are doing here but you know where you are in. You grab your gear, now your ready for combat. Then you met Dr.Samuel Hayden that want to make a deal with you but you refuse to hear him. You already have a mission in your mind: Get out of here and destroy the demon invasion, it looks like easy task but not at all. Samuel Hayden is telling you what to do and what don't with his Argent Energy. You later meet Dr. Olivia Pierce, leader of the cult under the Dark Lords and Mastermind of the Hellish invasion. Her dark intentions: Awaking the Bukavac, The Icon of Sin.

You travel through Hell and you hear stories, tales about you and your greatness but you can remember at all. You have some memories but they don't help too much, the tales say You wore the Crown of the Night Sentinels, something you can not remember exactly. They also tell that the Seraphim helped you in your crusade and He gave you more power and speed not like before and also you were able to kill the Titan: lord of the Shadows and with his defeat all Shadow Hordes were defeated, they also tell you found the Wretched Betrayer whose name mustn't be named and he with his heresy gave you a powerful armor capable of absorbing your enemies' power and he also gave you a shield and a sword to kill all the demons, but some priests were smarter than you thought and they put a trap to you and you failed with your mission. They finally could contain you in Hell despite you were too tough at first. It was your Doom...But you can't remember those acts exactly, you guess you need an anwser but you must continue with your mission. Now you have to beat the Cyberdemon, Lord of the Shadows (he is waiting for you) and get the Crucible from Hell Guardians claws and go after Olivia Pierce that is located in the Realm of Gods: Argent D'Nur. Once you get there, you must stop the well by stopping the Argent Energy coming out from the Wraits: Elemental beings from Argent D'Nur. And then, your Final confrontation with the terrible beast from Hell: Spider Mastermind, Arachnea Imperatrix, Goddess of the Fourth Age. And the loathsome Olivia Pierce turned into Spider Demon that masterminded the Mars base invasion and caused soo much death has had her ass kicked for all time. you were too tough to contain and at least Hell plays fair--Now you have completed your mission and Samuel Hayden congratulate you but under a cost: VEGA and Argent. Samuel is not going to kill you and he grabbed the Crucible from your hands, It seems he doesn't need you for this time and is going teleport you to you don't know where... Now you wonder where Samuel Hayden is going to send you after battling the evil unleashed, it could be good thing that no Hell Spawn could have teleported with you...

 

References:

1)You are located in Site 3. Site 3 is a level in Doom 3 that changed story drasticaly by keeping the tablets that tell a story of war with impossible acts.

2)You were in a sarcophagus. in Doom 3 you saw your sarcophagus in the final level. Also the Doom franchise was in a sarcophagus during hell development in Doom 4 until the release of Doom 2016 in May 13th.

3)Olivia Pierce, similar character to Dr. Betruger and Dr. Guerard.

4)The First Age, the First Battle, Age of Ascension for Hell after absorbing Argent D'Nur. Another unseen episode just like Doom 3's tablets. Your future written in the past. A reference to Original Doom release.

5) the Seraphim might be the Soul Cube. It also might be a reference to an Id member with lastname Serafín

6)the battle against the Titan. Some people say the Titan is the big skull presented in Titan's Realm although the skull is everywhere but people can be right. To me, after reading many times: in the Third Age, there was a war in Titan's realm between the Lord of Shadows and Doom Slayer and the Lord of the Shadows fell in Doom Slayer's hands. This Titan was later found by the UAC and with it created the Cyberdemon. A reference to Doom RPG and Wolfenstein RPG. The latter showed a reference when you fought the Cyberdemon for the very first time in Doom. This situation was also mirrored  in Doom3 and Doom RPG.

7)the Wretched Betrayer: its name is a reference to Dr.Betruger, the one who betrayed the UAC and open the portal to Hell. Note: Betrüger doesn't mean Betrayer.

8)Contained in Hell in a sarcophagus forever: In Doom, you were too tough for Hell to be contained but in Doom64 you decided to remain in Hell to prevent demons rising again. But you never thought Hell won, Hell finally contain you. in Doom 3 we were too tough as well to be contained but we were already contained in a sarcophagus as the Hero (reference to our past live in the original Doom as players). Sadly Id stopped making Doom games for a long time and Doom was also sealed in a sarcophagus but not forever: Doom was out in Doom 2016 again with success. 

9)Mother Demon, Cherub, Kronos and Wraiths from Doom2016 are related, just look at their designs.

When you deactivate the Argent Energy from the Wraiths, is a reference to Doom RPG: "Sever the arteries to silence the Mouth of Evil" when destroying the Power Couplings in order to close the portal.

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IMO the Doom timeline isn't as connected as people theorize. Here's my thoughts on the canons:

  • Classic Doom and D2 can stand on their own, but are possibly used as a base for other games in the series.
  • Doom 3 and it's expansions are their own thing, they have nothing to do with any other game aside from some easter eggs.
  • D64 is a sort of 'unofficial' or noncanon sequel to D2.
  • E4 and Sigil are sort of 'unofficial' or noncanon sequels to classic Doom.
  • D4 is a soft reboot which can stand on it's own, but implies it's a sequel to D2 (or even D64) with references to the rest of the franchise. Some of the references can also imply there's some sort of connection to D3, but I believe they're only references.
  • DE is a direct sequel to D4.

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Posted (edited)

Well, In Doom Eternal 

Spoiler

they connect most previous games (original Doom, Doom II: Hell on Earth, Doom 64) and Doom Slayer is original Doomguy

Sadly, but seems like they totally ignore Doom 3 and there is no connections with him. And also no mentions of Doom 3 marine.

After many years abandoned Doom 64 is now canon and connected with new reboot Doom 2016-Doom Eternal, but nobody want remember Doom 3 (only another Soul Cube easter egg in hub). Well, that's cruel. Maybe Doom 3 is no ideal and contradictory, but not deserved that.

Edited by Blackmore1014

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Posted (edited)

Nice bump, which is also factually incorrect BTW.

 

4 hours ago, Blackmore1014 said:

After many years abandoned Doom 64 is now canon and connected with new reboot Doom 2016-Doom Eternal, but nobody want remember Doom 3 (only another Soul Cube easter egg in hub). Well, that's cruel. Maybe Doom 3 is no ideal and contradictory, but not deserved that.

 

It was always canon to begin with. Doom 64 was a project approved and supervised by id Software, and it was a work-for-hire that Midway managed to get (the folks working on the current remaster at NDS such as @Quasar are bound to know what they're talking about since they're directly involved in the process).

 

It was never a spin-off game or an unofficial sequel. A console exclusive? Sure, but that's as far as it goes, and it faded into obscurity after Midway went bankrupt and sadly no one managed to pick up the project until much, much later.

 

As about "forgetting" Doom 3... well I guess they could have added some easter eggs, but Doom 3 takes place in a parallel universe with a different Marine since it was a reboot and re-telling of the original events rather than a sequel despite the name, so I'm not sure how they could've possibly fit it into the canon.

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20 hours ago, Blackmore1014 said:

Well, In Doom Eternal 

  Hide contents

they connect most previous games (original Doom, Doom II: Hell on Earth, Doom 64) and Doom Slayer is original Doomguy

Sadly, but seems like they totally ignore Doom 3 and there is no connections with him. And also no mentions of Doom 3 marine.

After many years abandoned Doom 64 is now canon and connected with new reboot Doom 2016-Doom Eternal, but nobody want remember Doom 3 (only another Soul Cube easter egg in hub). Well, that's cruel. Maybe Doom 3 is no ideal and contradictory, but not deserved that.

 

Not really, now that Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal are sequels to Classic Doom lore, (thing that was caused by the community) it is automatically silly that they have said that Doom(2016) was a reboot of Doom, thing that they keep on saying and you can also see in the game's information... I remember an user here saying the Doom2016guy was in fact the id tech 1 guy much before this shit about Argent D'Nur and Doom Slayer was known...(Doom 2016 Quakecon private reveal in 2014 and later world reveal in 2015)

Now the Main Doom lore is: Doom, Doom2, Final Doom, Doom64, Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal as Doom Slayer as protagonist. Doom 2016 is not a reboot, it's a sequel. Doom 3 is a reboot/alternate timeline where things happened in a different way that need its own sequels and lore but Doom 2 is the perfect sequel to Doom 3.

I don't think they are forgetting about Doom 3, they just wanted to continue the classic story after seeing people's theories... Doom 3 can't fit in Doom 1...

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4 hours ago, Gerardo194 said:

Doom 2016 is not a reboot, it's a sequel.

 

It's both tbh.

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Doom 3 is a sequel to Doom 64 and Doom 2016 is sequel to Doom 3 (no one have try to beat Doom 3 ?)

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1 hour ago, MadGuy said:

Doom 3 is a sequel to Doom 64 and Doom 2016 is sequel to Doom 3 (no one have try to beat Doom 3 ?)

No, it's not

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1 hour ago, MadGuy said:

Doom 3 is a sequel to Doom 64 and Doom 2016 is sequel to Doom 3 (no one have try to beat Doom 3 ?)

You mean this?

Spoiler

800px-Site_3_-_Chamber_of_the_Hero.jpg

 

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One hell of a (yet another) Alien reference.

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4 hours ago, sluggard said:

You mean this?

  Hide contents

800px-Site_3_-_Chamber_of_the_Hero.jpg

 

Yes, also the image from earlier that show classic Doom guy holding the soul cube while posing like in the original DOOM 1 box art (Also I think he was prophesized to give end to Hell and the scientist confuse Doom Marine for Doom guy)

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Posted (edited)

My theory is that DOOM 3 is actually a prequel to DOOM 1.

 

Think about it.

 

The DOOM 3 and ROE incidents were contained to Mars only, UAC has the power and influence to keep it all hush-hush, especially if the Doomguy never sends the message. So he got back to Earth, continued serving in the marine corps, messed up his commanding officer, got relocated to guard duty just in time for the first Phobos incident and went on to DOOM I-2-64-16-Eternal.

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Not listening to orders and assaulting the officer sounds like what he did with Sabaoth/Kelly. 


I still think it's a spin-off, different marine, happens at the same time as with 2016 iirc. 

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I like reading all the takes the community has on the game, but they're kinda pointless IMo when id made it clear it's a reboot... there was a video somewhere but I can't seem to find it anymore, typical...

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On lundi 16 mars 2020 at 2:03 PM, seed said:

Doom 3 takes place in a parallel universe with a different Marine

With three different Marines (four if you count the iOS railshooter).

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To me Doom 3 is its own (crappy) thing.

 

Doomguy:
Ultimate Doom ---> Sigil ---> Hell on Earth ---> Master Levels ---> No Rest for the Living ---> TNT Evilution ---> Plutonia Experiment ---> Doom 64 ---> 2016 ---> Eternal

 

Same character throughout.

 

VFR stars a different character but is set concurrently with 2016.

 

Doom 3 is set in a different universe and has a new character for the main campaign, a new character for Resurrection of Evil, and a third for The Lost Mission.

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I like to think that while the Doom 3 main story arc occurs, another marine on Phobos experiences the events from orginal Doom...but set in the Doom 3 universe.

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5 hours ago, Tetzlaff said:

I like to think that while the Doom 3 main story arc occurs, another marine on Phobos experiences the events from orginal Doom...but set in the Doom 3 universe.

I like that.

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Posted (edited)

I think its pretty much confirmed at this point that D1,D2 and D64 are tied together with D4 and DE.The Doomguy is the same character as the Doom Slayer.

 

Doom 3 and its expansions are pretty much an AU.Its essentially a spinoff at this point due to standing apart from the other games in the series.Personally I liked how they tried to focus a bit more on the horror side of the things in D3 rather than go all Rip and Tear/Full demon slaying action galore like the rest of the games.Its makes D3 distinct.It would be pretty great if they continued from D3 as a separate AU continuity and made games which emphasises the horror aspect more like D3.

Edited by Raytheon Thunder

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No, DOOM 3 is a separate timeline from Classic/Eternal timeline. That said, an alternate version of "our" Doomguy does exist in the DOOM3verse, and he is the protagonist of DOOM RPG, which happens concurrently with DOOM 3.

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