Is Doom Abandonware?

[Gez]

Something that's freeware is not necessarily abandoned. Every community-made Doom source port is freeware, for example. For "officially abandoned" I'm more thinking of stuff where the author came and say something along the line of "you know, I'm no longer going to do anything with this, consider it public domain and do whatever you want with it, I don't care anymore".

 

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by Gez : typo

[xvertigox]

Abandonware is a gray area and Doom is definitely not abandonware - you can still legally purchase it and the copyright hasn't expired/been relinquished.

 

I also feel like this thread is an appropriate place to mention Freedom.

[Teivman]

Hmm so i guess wolfenstein 2009 is abandonware. It's impossible to get it these days either online or in stores. Hell it seems as though they try to forget that it even existed! Which is a shame, because i really like the game.

[fraggle]

4 hours ago, Bauul said:

Is any software ever actually "officially" abandoned?

No, because "abandonware" is not actually any kind of legal term.

[Jello]

1 hour ago, MrD!zone said:

Hmm so i guess wolfenstein 2009 is abandonware. It's impossible to get it these days either online or in stores. Hell it seems as though they try to forget that it even existed! Which is a shame, because i really like the game.

No, it's not. As has been pointed out, abandonware is a made up term by people who want to legitimize piracy. Raven Software no longer exists, but Activision certainly does, and they have never stated that they have abandoned the game and let it loose into the public domain. They may not sell it anymore, and that probably has to do with the fact that Bethesda Softworks now owns Wolfenstein after their acquisition of iD, so Activision can't sell it. But it doesn't mean it's abandoned, it's just in a legal limbo. Activision could probably sell it again if they paid Bethesda Softworks enough money to use the name; but it sold so poorly in the first place I doubt they'd ever do that. Or Bethesda could buy the rights from Activision to distribute the game again; but it sold so poorly in the first place I doubt they'd ever do that.

 

So yeah, it's certainly not freeware. There's still a copyright on the game somewhere, but nobody feels it's worth muddling through the legal issues to start selling it again. Which makes it sound abandoned, therefore it's abandonware. But that's not an actual legal status for something. If you download it for free, you're still pirating it, and it's still illegal. I'm not here to preach or judge, I'm just telling you that it would still be illegal to download it, and you probably wouldn't want Bobby Kotick creeping into your bedroom in the middle of the night, watching over you with his dead black eyes.

 

 

[Teivman]

1 minute ago, Jello said:

No, it's not. As has been pointed out, abandonware is a made up term by people who want to legitimize piracy. Raven Software no longer exists, but Activision certainly does, and they have never stated that they have abandoned the game and let it loose into the public domain. They may not sell it anymore, and that probably has to do with the fact that Bethesda Softworks now owns Wolfenstein after their acquisition of iD, so Activision can't sell it. But it doesn't mean it's abandoned, it's just in a legal limbo. Activision could probably sell it again if they paid Bethesda Softworks enough money to use the name; but it sold so poorly in the first place I doubt they'd ever do that. Or Bethesda could buy the rights from Activision to distribute the game again; but it sold so poorly in the first place I doubt they'd ever do that.

 

So yeah, it's certainly not freeware. There's still a copyright on the game somewhere, but nobody feels it's worth muddling through the legal issues to start selling it again. Which makes it sound abandoned, therefore it's abandonware. But that's not an actual legal status for something. If you download it for free, you're still pirating it, and it's still illegal. I'm not here to preach or judge, I'm just telling you that it would still be illegal to download it, and you probably wouldn't want Bobby Kotick creeping into your bedroom in the middle of the night, watching over you with his dead black eyes.

 

 

Ah Right.

[Cacodemon345]

If the company or person behind the work goes completely out of business, then it is still not abandonware, because the copyright still hasn't expired. If the copyright holder is dead or the company behind it is completely out of business and game itself isn't sold anymore, then it still is not abandonware because the copyright still hasn't expired.
On the matter of Doom release, it is still getting ports to consoles, but the game itself isn't really updated, the only thing done is some bug fixes and stuff changing

like as seen with Doom 3 BFG Edition's Doom 1 and 2 release. Those BFG releases contain changed sprites of medikits and stimpacks as a result of Red Cross symbol being not actually public domain.

Sure, they might get expansion packs, but the main game is itself not updated, so abandonware is nothing more than a simple term people use to legalize piracy. See Windows XP, it is actually still sold in other forms, but other than that it is unsupported and not updated anymore, but since some incarnations of this software is still supported, it is definitely not abandonware despite people calling it so.

So, basically they aren't actually abandonware. It is called a digital form of orphaned works.

[Lila Feuer]

5 minutes ago, Cacodemon345 said:

If the company or person behind the work goes completely out of business, then it is still not abandonware, because the copyright still hasn't expired. If the copyright holder is dead or the company behind it is completely out of business and game itself isn't sold anymore, then it still is not abandonware because the copyright still hasn't expired.

He speaks in Legalese guys.

[Cacodemon345]

1 minute ago, cyan0s1s said:

He speaks in Legalese guys.

So what? It is a legal issue.

[CARRiON]

38 minutes ago, Jello said:

No, it's not. As has been pointed out, abandonware is a made up term by people who want to legitimize piracy. Raven Software no longer exists, but Activision certainly does, and they have never stated that they have abandoned the game and let it loose into the public domain. They may not sell it anymore, and that probably has to do with the fact that Bethesda Softworks now owns Wolfenstein after their acquisition of iD, so Activision can't sell it. But it doesn't mean it's abandoned, it's just in a legal limbo. Activision could probably sell it again if they paid Bethesda Softworks enough money to use the name; but it sold so poorly in the first place I doubt they'd ever do that. Or Bethesda could buy the rights from Activision to distribute the game again; but it sold so poorly in the first place I doubt they'd ever do that.

 

So yeah, it's certainly not freeware. There's still a copyright on the game somewhere, but nobody feels it's worth muddling through the legal issues to start selling it again. Which makes it sound abandoned, therefore it's abandonware. But that's not an actual legal status for something. If you download it for free, you're still pirating it, and it's still illegal. I'm not here to preach or judge, I'm just telling you that it would still be illegal to download it, and you probably wouldn't want Bobby Kotick creeping into your bedroom in the middle of the night, watching over you with his dead black eyes.

 

 

 

Raven Software isn't dead. Also, I don't think anyone was arguing that it's illegal. But if something isn't sold anymore, like a LOT of Raven's older games, and the companies don't care, it doesn't really matter. The only thing making it illegal are dumb ass laws that say these companies have the right to sit on games and IPs they don't give a fuck about anymore.

 

Fuck that, sell it to me and I'll buy it, whether through Steam, or GOG, or BNet for the few games Blizzard seems to not carry like Diablo and Warcraft 1 and 2. Otherwise I'll get it through other means.

[Lila Feuer]

I'm with Ross Scott (Freeman's Mind, Game Dungeon) when it comes to this sorta thing. I refuse to let games that the publisher no longer cares about, isn't supporting and isn't selling die just because lawmakers years ago couldn't take into consideration that maybe things will change someday, but no let's not even try to future-proof. They may own the intellectual property, but since the companies changed hands they probably don't even know they do own it, and they clearly aren't making any more money off of it.

If I can still buy a game, preferably digitally because I don't have a CD-ROM drive, nor do I want to take up space with physical material, then I will buy it. But if it's something like No One Lives Forever or Soldier of Fortune, Hexen II's mission pack and Heretic II, the first Diablo and so on, it's fair game (pun intended).

Also, I'll add further that if an old game is still being sold, but the developer isn't supporting it anymore and it has problems running on modern OS without DIY and fan fixes, make it freeware. Otherwise you're just taking money while delivering a broken product that may not even work properly someday, if at all again.

[Linguica]

The Doomworld policy on Doom piracy is "polite obliviousness." We're not stupid and we know that it is practically trivial, at least for the classic games. But the deal is that we pretend it isn't and we harshly punish anyone breaking the masquerade.

[Doomkid]

*provides definition of abandonware even though it's already been done no less than 6 times in this thread*

 

I'm helping!

 

On a serious note, the first episode of Doom 1 is shareware which by definition makes it free to distribute. Freedoom uses Doom's exact engine however no copyrighted elements (ie music, graphics) are being used, putting it in the category of freeware.

 

All of these various "wares" have subtle but important distinctions, however it seems to be commonly believed that they're all the same. Can't really blame people for being confused at this point as that idea is so widespread.

 

You've got 0 worries if you're playing a game officially distributed as freeware or shareware.

[MaxTrevors]

All I know is John Carmack and everyone who actually made the damn thing don't care. There's a million places to download all those IWADS and sourceports. Anyone who pays for classic DOOM is just pissing away money. I think everyone has paid for it enough.

[CoyoteComrade]

How to delete an entire forum thread

Oh wait this isn't google

PS. I have legal copies now

[snapshot]

You can unfollow the thread and let the crowd babble about it more :v

[Gez]

6 hours ago, Jello said:

They may not sell it anymore, and that probably has to do with the fact that Bethesda Softworks now owns Wolfenstein after their acquisition of iD, so Activision can't sell it. But it doesn't mean it's abandoned, it's just in a legal limbo.

Same difference.

 

Obviously, abandonware is not a legally-defined term and the practice is tantamount to copyright infringement in any case (the closest legal equivalent would be the notion of orphan work) but the more-or-less accepted definition of abandonware is software that you cannot actually buy new because the rightsholders are not selling it anymore. This can be because there are complex legal issues to work out between different companies (e.g. why franchise games like the Dune or Terminator or whatever other series are rarely put on Steam or GOG) or because the rightsholders have simply forgotten about it entirely. From the perspective of the end user, it doesn't matter why, it only matters whether the game (or other software) is legally available or not. And if it's not legally available anymore, regardless of the reason why, then it's "abandonware". Which remains something illegal (by definition) so it's still software piracy and we can't condone it, yadda yadda yadda.

 

But yes, Wolf 09 does fit the abandonware definition for the reason classic Doom doesn't.

[Maes]

Since Doom's cash-cow is still milked for all that it's worth, I'd say no.

 

Granted, there was an awkward period between the late 1990s and the rise of services like Steam, GoG, etc. where games ended up mostly in the bargain bin and then into oblivion, and abandonware (or "warez") was the only practical way of getting hold of them, unless you were willing to sift through local ads, thrift stores, eBay etc. (and even the legality of resale in this way is challenged today). Try e.g. and buy Daikatana or Big Rigs in 2005-2006, Cyberbykes or any 1990s FMV game for that matter. Most have a Steam or GoG release by now, but that wasn't always the case.

 

However, unlike those obscure crappers, Doom never ever made it into the gutter of bargain bins, AFAIK. It was always sold officially on the high street in one form or another, and for top dollar, considering its age. Anthologies, collections etc.

[Gez]

IMO there should be a way to get out of ridiculous stuff like the legal limbo popular titles such as No One Lives Forever are in. Some sort of governmental agencies where you could say "I want to buy this work" and that'd put the title on a list and start a counter. If after say 10 years the rightsholders haven't manifested and authorized some digital download system, then the work would automatically be put in the public domain.

 

That would lit a fire under some asses and prevent keeping works hostage in some sort of speculative scheme.

[Koko Ricky]

12 hours ago, Pure Hellspawn said:

Castle of the Winds is a good example of this. 

 

But the term for that is "Freeware".

WOW! That is a throwback! My sister and I played that game almost a quarter century ago.

[Maes]

15 hours ago, Bauul said:

Is any software ever actually "officially" abandoned?

Are movies and music ever officially abandoned, before their copyright actually expires?

 

They may become harder to get, esp. if they don't ever get released on a modern format (think e.g. of music released only on 78 rpm records or 8-track, movies released only on VHS etc.), but seldom does the copyright holder throw the towel and admit that, well, unless they re-release their work in a modern format (assuming that they can, even), they can no longer make money out of it and they'd do the world a service if they just release an official nulla osta to the free and unrestricted use of their work (which they obviously can no longer control).

 

Some games are indeed in that grey zone where obsure B-movies and rare music tracks are. For the latter, often Youtube can prove a surprising source. For the former, well, "abandonware" sites sometimes do provide a valuable service. But Doom in particular never was in this league.

[Zulk RS]

2 hours ago, Maes said:

 stores, eBay etc. (and even the legality of resale in this way is challenged today). Try e.g. and buy Daikatana or Big Rigs in 2005-2006, Cyberbykes or any 1990s FMV game for that matter. Most have a Steam or GoG release by now, but that wasn't always the case.

 

Why would you even want to buy these games? Last I checked, these were pretty shit.

 

(Says the guy who tried to get a perfectly working copy Deathtrap Dungeon)

[Pegleg]

Ironically, yesterday afternoon I looked at this thread and was going to respond (while the responses were still in the low teens) and said to myself, "Hmm... I think everything that needs to be said on this subject has been said."

 

8 hours ago, cyan0s1s said:

I'm with Ross Scott (Freeman's Mind, Game Dungeon) when it comes to this sorta thing. I refuse to let games that the publisher no longer cares about, isn't supporting and isn't selling die just because lawmakers years ago couldn't take into consideration that maybe things will change someday, but no let's not even try to future-proof. They may own the intellectual property, but since the companies changed hands they probably don't even know they do own it, and they clearly aren't making any more money off of it.

If I can still buy a game, preferably digitally because I don't have a CD-ROM drive, nor do I want to take up space with physical material, then I will buy it. But if it's something like No One Lives Forever or Soldier of Fortune, Hexen II's mission pack and Heretic II, the first Diablo and so on, it's fair game (pun intended).

Also, I'll add further that if an old game is still being sold, but the developer isn't supporting it anymore and it has problems running on modern OS without DIY and fan fixes, make it freeware. Otherwise you're just taking money while delivering a broken product that may not even work properly someday, if at all again.

As @Gez pointed out, abandonware (not a legal term, as has been pointed out multiple times already on this thread) is essentially a special case of an orphan work, which is a work for which copyright cannot be enforced because either the original copyright holders are unknown or the copyright holders cannot be contacted. They may not be contactable because there are insufficient details to find out how to contact them or they died and no inheritance could be established.

 

In the case of software, a program is abandonware (again, not a legal term) when the original company has generally decided to stop tracking and enforcing copyright violations. Usually they also decide to stop supporting it and to stop providing original copies of it for legal purchase. They may do this because they bought another company and don't realize they own the rights to that particular program, they program itself may be old and rely on obsolete, not generally available equipment/hardware, or that the program itself is old enough that it doesn't make financial sense to the company to worry about it.

 

Should the company make such a program freeware at that point? Probably. But if the company either doesn't know about the program or doesn't care about tracking its sue, they probably aren't going to be bothered to take the time to declare it freeware, whatever that entails.

 

All of that being said, iD Software is now a subsidiary of ZeniMax Media, who is aware of the fact that they own the rights to Doom (and all of iD's catalog). You can still legally purchase original copies of Doom. There are source ports and programs available to run the game on modern hardware. Take all of that together, and it implies that, in my opinion, Doom is quite clearly NOT abandonware.

 

[seed]

Meanwhile, at this point I wonder why this discussion still continues really.

 

All that needed to be said was said and clarified, the thread has served its purpose, and the OP claims to own a copy of the classic titles now.

[Zulk RS]

13 minutes ago, Agent6 said:

Meanwhile, at this point I wonder why this discussion still continues really.

 

All that needed to be said was said and clarified, the thread has served its purpose, and the OP claims to own a copy of the classic titles now.

Me too. It's not even like the posters are saying different things like the thread about Doom's plot. Everyone is basically saying the same thing here.

[Pegleg]

4 hours ago, MaxTrevors said:

All I know is John Carmack and everyone who actually made the damn thing don't care. There's a million places to download all those IWADS and sourceports. Anyone who pays for classic DOOM is just pissing away money. I think everyone has paid for it enough.

That is immaterial.

 

When iD was founded back in the early 90's, it was a very small company of software industry lifers who were driven and had decades of combined experience in virtually all aspects of programming and game design and development. Yes, they all became very rich on the back of Doom (John Romero has said that he went into the Ferrari dealership and paid for a Ferrari in full in cash). Yes, most of those who developed Doom have moved on to other ventures (apparently only Kevin Cloud is still there from the group that was present when Doom was released in 1993). Yes, they may not care at all if iD never gets another dime from Doom.

 

Their feelings don't matter. iD software is now a subsidiary of ZeniMax Media, which is worth several billion dollars. The investors and board and executives of ZeniMax certainly care if they make a dime from Doom. So, as long as they care, Doom will never be abandonware until its copyright expires.

[Pegleg]

17 minutes ago, Agent6 said:

Meanwhile, at this point I wonder why this discussion still continues really.

 

All that needed to be said was said and clarified, the thread has served its purpose, and the OP claims to own a copy of the classic titles now.

 

2 minutes ago, Zulk RS said:

Me too. It's not even like the posters are saying different things like the thread about Doom's plot. Everyone is basically saying the same thing here.

So we just need one of the moderators to lock this thread if they see value in doing so. @Linguica, @fraggle, and @esselfortium have all responded to this thread at some point, so they're certainly aware of its existence.