Speed Session: Impromptu DM

[Royal_Sir]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cvryui2sl5cfomg/Treatment Center.wad?dl=0

 

Name: Treatment Center

Format: Limit Removing

Testing: I've never once played a deathmatch. Kinda ironic.

Build Time: 3-4 hours

Other notes: No custom music. Feel free to add your own if you want.

 

Didn't realize we could use the texture pack so this is all vanilla assets.

 

[Decay]

Damn, I just finished compiling and putting this up on a server -- I'll grab your map on the fix-up go around during the week.

 

Come play in the meantime on zandronum. TSPG: ImpromptuDM: We Finally Did It

 

Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/radnsmash

[hobomaster22]

1 hour ago, Royal_Sir said:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cvryui2sl5cfomg/Treatment Center.wad?dl=0

 

Name: Treatment Center

Format: Limit Removing

Testing: I've never once played a deathmatch. Kinda ironic.

Build Time: 3-4 hours

Other notes: No custom music. Feel free to add your own if you want.

 

Didn't realize we could use the texture pack so this is all vanilla assets.

 

 

Good start, but it's a bit cramped at the moment. Expand hallway areas so they have at least 160 width, if not more. I would expand the smaller rooms as well. I would remove the lift and add stairs to fix connectivity. The switch to lower the bars is a bit much and I would just have it open from the start.

[Decay]

 

https://allfearthesentinel.net/zandronum/download.php?file=impromptu1_beta1.wad

 

Authors: Friday night is the official release party when Doomkid gets on. You have until then to fix, tweak, or submit more maps if you want.

For me to fix and add:

Credits.txt for music

animations for liquids

 

Overall I am very pleased with how these maps came out. Great job. 12/13 maps met the goal I set out in the first post.

 

map01: some places felt unnecessarily tight, spawns in an awkward position

map02: looks very samey everywhere and I'm not a fan of the shotgun spawns, but as discussed in discord you have some plans for this map.

map03: some of the spawns i'm not fond of, as discussed on discord

map04: A+ I finally did it.

map05: There's a lot of tight spaces in this map, I'm not really a fan of alcove spawns if it can be helped. Widen up some of the corridors and spawn areas. The switch for the bfg teleport should be far more obvious. Even though it is a sewer map I'd make it a little brighter all around as well. The rocket launcher spawn behind the pillar is a no-no as well.

map06: very bumpy. If the whole thing was flattened/leveled out a bit more, it would work better. Not bad overall though

map07: Looks the same in many places, hard to navigate because of this. I'd brighten up the inside as well, and not have that ssg spawn with the green armour tucked away in the corner. There was a spawn FACING THE WALL. It was very easy to spawn camp in this map but overall I liked it

map08; what's with the green stairs? I personally think all SSG spawns wasn't a good idea. Not a bad map - not a great map either though. Middle of the road.

map09: There was a very good spot for rocket spamming across 3 spawns. Otherwise this is your typical DM speedmap - nothing out of the ordinary for good or worse.

map10: Hobomaster graciously saved therektafire's map from condemnation and made a fairly good result, good job.

map11: Advanced port of the future zandronum can't do boom lift raising online properly, good job! I reworked this one a bit to be more dm conducive, which is was but it is hard to get a good judgement when a central feature only works offline (wtf?). We shall see how this works out on the proper release party on Friday

map12: I think we heard enough. There is no saving this map. [10:09 PM] Razgriz-S: maybe rename it to sinking ship of rad's career?

map13: Add a set of stairs on the northeast side where the jump pad is. Not sure a megasphere is good idea here but maybe with the prominent bfg spamming.

[Miles Lowroad]

Nice work! Plays quite well.

[ALMN]

Everyone shitting on Rad's map, but it was one of my favorites. It was a little big, yes, but it was the ONLY map that wasn't just another cramped, cookie cutter DM. Some of the maps were absolute garbage, but Rad's is the only one gettin picked on. Damn shame

 

Other than Rad's, Alex's and Doomkid's were my favorite. The rest can sit in a garbage can and get moldy and would probably turn out better

[Decay]

Better maps were made in 1682 tbh

[ALMN]

Well I mean you think Doom 1 and 2 suck, so I can't take your opinion seriously, sorry pal

[Decay]

Yawn, let me know when you can string together some actual feedback instead of falling back on the good old "my friends made these so it's good and the rest sucks" meme.

[ALMN]

I don't like them because my friends made em. I like em because they're decent. I'm not going to waste time coming up with a list of actual critiques, because I know you'll just call me an idiot or a memer, which is par for the course with you. Hell, your feedback on your own map was "A+ I finally did it." It's nowhere near perfect my dude.

[Marcaek]

I can't imagine having fun on that boat map, it's way too fucking big for its own good. Too bad I didn't stick around long enough to play it!

[ALMN]

I had plenty of fun on it for the 3 minutes I got to play it. It's too big, should maybe be chopped in half, and some item placement could change, but if Rad had taken more than like 30 minutes or so to make it, it would be a real solid DM map. The rest of the maps aren't even really suited for DM, more for 1v1 or 2v2

[Royal_Sir]

11 minutes ago, ALMN said:

 The rest of the maps aren't even really suited for DM, more for 1v1 or 2v2

To be honest that's what I thought I was mapping for.

 

Mine really isn't designed to handle more than 4 people.

 

Gotta upscale it.

[jdagenet]

Okay @ALMN how about this: why should we listen to you? What makes your opinion so valuable and credible? You seem adamant to quickly say a map is garbage or should mold in a trashcan but you really don’t back up what you’re saying other than “it’s cramped” and I know you’ll probably repeat yourself and say, “oh he’ll just call me a memer” which still isn’t a valid argument either.

Give us a reason to highly consider your opinion.

[ALMN]

You don't have to listen to me. I don't have to listen to you. My opinion is my opinion, I don't really care if anybody respects it or values it. I honestly agree with a lot of Decay says. Despite how I feel about him or how he feels about me, which doesn't matter at all, he makes some good points about a lot of the maps.

 

Someone let Rad's map in, seemingly only to be picked apart and made fun of. Why do I figure this? "map10: Hobomaster graciously saved therektafire's map from condemnation and made a fairly good result, good job." What this makes me think is that Map10 was WORSE than how you guys perceived Map12, given a chance to be fixed, and is now a much better state, yet Map12 was allowed in a perfect condition to be roasted.

 

For all I know, Rad was advised to make some changes, and knowing him, he would have made those changes. That makes me think that someone gave him some critique, but not enough critique to help him make the map "good enough."

 

Lastly, Rad's is the only map listed above that doesn't have any critique stated. Just "we've all heard enough." Rad already knows how to map plenty good enough, but if that was some newer mapper, they wouldn't be able to benefit from anything. It's the exact same as me saying "this map is garbage."

[Doomkid]

Aside from all this bickering (what literally each one of you does best) this looks fun for a variety of reasons. Looking forward to the final version! Rad's map is way too large for DM but might make a decent LMS? I had fun moving around in it but due to the sheer scale I definitely see where the complaints are coming from.

 

We need to pat ourselves on the back. We finally did it.

 

12/13 maps met the goal I set out in the first post.

A few more months with his English tutor and Ivan will be totally ready for next session!!!

[nxGangrel]

Damn... I guess I missed putting a map in

[Doomkid]

I don't think so, pretty sure a few more tweaks and edits need to be done to the wad - You might be able to sneak one in!

[nxGangrel]

Well, hopefully it was worth it...

(about five hours build time, and Boom compatible)

http://www.mediafire.com/file/q8rp63qpmp6v241/NXGbetacomplex.wad

 

[Memfis]

I see what you mean about rocket camping. Here is a new version where that shouldn't be a problem. Also, not sure if that was a good idea, but I changed the angle of some starts to hopefully increase the visible field on spawn.

 

Also, if you need music credits, I used the song from e1m5 of The Chambers of Death.

[SleepyVelvet]

thanks.  i appreciate the sage deathmatch advice.

 

to paint a picture of me: I probably played about 3-4 cumulative hours doom deathmatch my whole life, and sorta got bored of the usual ssg dogpile that avid deathmatchers converge to.  That style is fun, but I get bored of it, and I also like wacky-funhouse-death gimmicks.  So at first I was skeptical about a few of the things that you said.  For example, when you commented on Walter's invis sphere, i said to myself, "man, Decay hates fun".
Though, it's wise to listen to elders.  To your credit, when I checked out your version in the compilation (beta1), I like it a lot better.

 

my ideas were kinda slap-dash, i'll list what was going on in my head at the time for historical purposes:

 

-the spawn-cluster of 4 on the center pillar: thought it would be cool to let players paratroop down the branch of their choice every other death.  they'd pick up a chaingun and drop down into the fray at their own pace.  Though i just tested the first version in zandronum and noticed that the spawn algorithm mostly ignored those spawns anyways.  Thus, defending and balancing this design choice is moot.
-the megasphere way in the ocean: when making the boom exit way out in the lava (i didn't know if they were required for compatability, shows how little i know), I threw a megasphere there too while i was at it.  I hoped that it was so far out of the way that it'd waste time and kills as a trade off, so benefits were hopefully marginal.  When i place things like this, i usually do it for the off chance that it adds a dimension to curious players to exploit, but hopefully without breaking the balance too~ much. It also adds more noise to a fresh map that eyes are still trying to get a grip on, but meh.
-3 damaging inescapable pits: i like death-pits.  that's all there was to this decision
-3 bfgs inside those pits: I was burning out but I still wanted to wrap it up and place a BFG.  So, i put 3 of them into the pits the damaging pits, and made them raise with the hidden switch.  I then tagged those pits to lower simultaneously when anyone grabs either bfg - I smiled at the idea of two people racing to the BFGs, and then the slower player falling into the whole because they didn't make it in time.

tldr: me trying to be clever in an "impromptu" mapping timeframe produces janky chaos, but i love janky chaos, heh.

 

Your version is just better though, and i can see it playing generally more smoothly.  great stuff.

-----

 

i went into your version and cleaned up a few things, one critical bug.

Changes:

-*removed vestigial tags from the ex-BFG pits that were breaking the lift (i assume they were missed in the first edit).  it's now just basic Doom format except the sky transfer.  If literally basic doom stuff doesn't work in zandronum, then i will wage a war on all zdoom based ports.
-deleted its corresponding dummy sector.
-removed the exit switch, i'm assuming it's redundant in the set it's going in?
-removed that dangling health-bonus in the ocean (its corresponding switch isn't hidden anymore)
-made the BFG bright (each spiral originally had a tiny 255 brightness sector under each item).  can be changed back if the bfg was supposed to be dimmer and less obvious.
-fixed up the opposite side of the lift texture (not the obvious one) so it matches the same trim as the "web"
-fixed the left spiral: it had a pit you can fall into. you could wiggle into the nukage so it's not inescapable, but it could fool people into thinking they're stuck.

 

Download: noisyUpdate_impromptu1.wad (Map11)

Size: 276 KB

Format: Doom (with Boom sky transfers)

cheers.  i'm not a big deathmatch guy, so i might not play friday. but i actually think it turned out kinda cool to be quite honest. 

[Ru5tK1ng]

8 hours ago, ALMN said:

I don't like them because my friends made em.

Nice try scumbag, you're not fooling anyone.

[hobomaster22]

6 hours ago, nxGangGirl said:

Well, hopefully it was worth it...

(about five hours build time, and Boom compatible)

http://www.mediafire.com/file/q8rp63qpmp6v241/NXGbetacomplex.wad

 

 

Nice color theme and design. Like the previous submission there are a lot of cramped hallways and areas that will not be fun in deathmatch. Expand them out and test the map by trying to run around without getting snagged on anything. I'm sure once you get the flow moving it will be a decent map.

[Decay]

10 hours ago, ALMN said:

I don't like them because my friends made em. I like em because they're decent. I'm not going to waste time coming up with a list of actual critiques, because I know you'll just call me an idiot or a memer, which is par for the course with you. Hell, your feedback on your own map was "A+ I finally did it." It's nowhere near perfect my dude.

I understand you have a difficult time getting jokes but maybe the sarcastic "I finally did it" should've clued you in. While I was writing this post, I was talking with Razgriz, Hobomaster, and Jason over voicechat and asked them what I should put down for critique on it. At the time they weren't sure, so I just put that down and moved on. I know it is nowhere near "perfect" but at the time I couldn't think of any pressing structural changes. Maybe you could enlighten me?

 

Quote

Someone let Rad's map in, seemingly only to be picked apart and made fun of. Why do I figure this? "map10: Hobomaster graciously saved therektafire's map from condemnation and made a fairly good result, good job." What this makes me think is that Map10 was WORSE than how you guys perceived Map12, given a chance to be fixed, and is now a much better state, yet Map12 was allowed in a perfect condition to be roasted.

Literally everybody in the server except you disliked the map. Is that not hint enough? It is not a good dm map no matter how you try to spin it. It defies every convention in the poorest possible way in terms of layout design. And guess what? I've yet to see a dm map from radnsmash that IS actually good. I could spend all day picking things apart if I wanted to. I'll say that his maps look good, including this one, but the layouts are horrific. He goes on about how bad raddm is, but honestly I don't see any improvement in radtrilogy or this at all.

 

After Rad's reaction (coming into voicechat to literally scream at Jason and Razgriz, and then leaving the discord), I did not think he was going to be editing the map, so why bother? I'd rather just axe it from the pack and call it a day.

 

As far as the whole "saving from condemnation bit" both the authors of 10 and 11 were unavailable or hadn't replied to potential changes. Rad was always around. He could've continued editing his map while I was compiling, god knows it took me long enough. But no, he was content with a mid-2000s style map, which after several Doomshack plays sessions, we determined are not good, and even you agree to this. So don't give me any of this "this map is good and it isn't because of my friends" bit because it isn't legit, at all. If you want to stick by your opinion that's fine, but from my point of view its simply because you are stuck in the mid-2000s and pretty much never grew up or out of it. Why do I call you an idiot? Because you are an idiot. Randomly saying shit on discord like "I'm rock hard" to get attention, sarcastic advice to people who are looking for help, behaving like it was still 2008. Go back to whatever gutter you crawled out of, literally not one person will miss or notice a missing has-been that was never significant or important beyond being known as a retard who got banned unjustly.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Decay

[Decay]

6 hours ago, NoisyVelvet said:

thanks.  i appreciate the sage deathmatch advice.

 

to paint a picture of me: I probably played about 3-4 cumulative hours doom deathmatch my whole life, and sorta got bored of the usual ssg dogpile that avid deathmatchers converge to.  That style is fun, but I get bored of it, and I also like wacky-funhouse-death gimmicks.  So at first I was skeptical about a few of the things that you said.  For example, when you commented on Walter's invis sphere, i said to myself, "man, Decay hates fun".
Though, it's wise to listen to elders.  To your credit, when I checked out your version in the compilation (beta1), I like it a lot better.

 

cheers.  i'm not a big deathmatch guy, so i might not play friday. but i actually think it turned out kinda cool to be quite honest. 

 

Thanks for the updates! I'm glad you liked what I did. I had left it right up to the compilation time to do it myself, hoping you'd get back around and was saying "ugh I don't want to let this one go!" You should definitely try to make it out to the release party, if not at least to the discord. We just had a big discussion on DM mapping mechanics, if you were interested in learning how to make good DM maps in terms of spawn placement and avoiding the SSG dogpile you dislike while still maintaining a good pace, that's a good place to start. I think you have good potential.

 

6 hours ago, Memfis said:

I see what you mean about rocket camping. Here is a new version where that shouldn't be a problem. Also, not sure if that was a good idea, but I changed the angle of some starts to hopefully increase the visible field on spawn.

 

Also, if you need music credits, I used the song from e1m5 of The Chambers of Death.

Great, thanks for the update!

 

 

11 hours ago, nxGangGirl said:

Well, hopefully it was worth it...

(about five hours build time, and Boom compatible)

http://www.mediafire.com/file/q8rp63qpmp6v241/NXGbetacomplex.wad

 

 

Good effort, I agree with what hobomaster said. The tight corridors are not very conducive to FFA gameplay, especially with many people (we had 13 players play all the maps last night). The SSG should be in more open spots around the map, where it is easy to see, grab, or defend against (or for). The alcove spots you have it in right now should be reserved for armours, power-ups, rocket launchers, plasma. The red bit with the green armour should have a stairway up to the second floor as well for improved flow. The tight little corridor between the green armour room and the next big room needs to be wider for sure, at least 192 units wide with no obstacles. If you wish to retain the pillar, 256 for sure. Crank out the hallways you have now to 192 at least, 128 should be reserved for tight entry ways, and those tight 64 entryway should be doubled. Remove the tech pillars because they serve only to hinder movement. You have a pistol spawn, add a weapon to it. You could probably add one more spawn in the map somewhere on the eastern side. I think this layout has great potential!

 

 

16 hours ago, Royal_Sir said:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cvryui2sl5cfomg/Treatment Center.wad?dl=0

 

Name: Treatment Center

Format: Limit Removing

Testing: I've never once played a deathmatch. Kinda ironic.

Build Time: 3-4 hours

Other notes: No custom music. Feel free to add your own if you want.

 

Didn't realize we could use the texture pack so this is all vanilla assets.

 

 

Agreed with what hobomaster said. I'd also axe the door, slow moving doors are a huge hindrance in FFA. Same with some of the tech pillars and lamps. Axe the switch for the gates and just have the gates down/open. In general I'd say just upsize the map 1.5x and it'll be a good size.

[ALMN]

I just want to point out that I said, in the Discord, that I liked the map before I knew it was Rad's. Other than that, I'm not gonna defend myself or get a rise out of you being a jackass, there's no point. You're taking this way too personally.

[Ru5tK1ng]

I think rad made a map. A good SimCity map.

[nxGangrel]

Updated version of beta complex. Essentially all I did was widen all the walk/hall ways to be at least 256 in length, added a couple more spawns, and rearranged some of the item locations. It was a blast to test... even if it was just with bots. Also comes with music (Level 7-Pursuit from Ninja Warriors Again SNES) Hopefully this one is much better.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/hjjnc1n6gg9o3c8/NXGbetacomplex_v2.wad

[Decay]

14 hours ago, nxGangGirl said:

Updated version of beta complex.

Significant improvement, good job. Slotting this in as the new map12

[Royal_Sir]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0yw3qlod69toudd/Treatment Center v2.wad?dl=0

 

Upscaled. Added a cavern corridor to open up the map also.