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SayWhatOneMoreTime

The downward sprial (WAD)

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I want to make a WAD based off the album "the downward spiral" by nine inch nails but I honestly don't know how to and I wouldn't even know where to begin. I would also like to make a WAD based off Marilyn manson's "Holywood" but yet again I wouldn't know how to. I know it would involve a lot of scripting, editing , custom sprites and textures along with some other thing's. I don't know why I'm posting this but if anyone has any advice on how to do this or if anyone has done something like this already please let me know.

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5 minutes ago, xvertigox said:

@GenoCL has a map based on an Iron Maiden song which you can download here.

 

It's mainly the downward spiral one I wouldn't know where to start off at because I want it to have a lot of emotion to it like how the album itself does. I guess I could look at that WAD and try to get some ideas from it or at least get a look of what I could/couldn't do.

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21 hours ago, xvertigox said:

@GenoCL has a map based on an Iron Maiden song which you can download here.

How do I open a .rar file? What dumb program do I need to get?

 

More on topic, I've started a WAD based off an album as well. Mine simply has a level for each song that has a few elements from the songs as gameplay or visual ideas. The visuals for all the levels follow the same color scheme as the album cover. 

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25 minutes ago, Snikle said:

How do I open a .rar file? What dumb program do I need to get?

Has WinRar really fallen out of favor so much people don't even recognize a .rar file any more? Damn how times have changed!

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27 minutes ago, Snikle said:

How do I open a .rar file? What dumb program do I need to get?

 

More on topic, I've started a WAD based off an album as well. Mine simply has a level for each song that has a few elements from the songs as gameplay or visual ideas. The visuals for all the levels follow the same color scheme as the album cover. 

I have thought about doing BONE's teenwitch album as a WAD since it's so easy to understand and all you really need to do is make a couple maps and some scripting and you're done but I really want to do holywood more than the downward spiral right now because I know it'll take me at least a year to understand how to properly do it. 

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21 hours ago, SayWhatOneMoreTime said:

 

It's mainly the downward spiral one I wouldn't know where to start off at because I want it to have a lot of emotion to it like how the album itself does. I guess I could look at that WAD and try to get some ideas from it or at least get a look of what I could/couldn't do.

What you're asking is way too complicated. Try to figure out what emotions and themes the song(s) are trying to convey and see if you're able to express that in for form of a Doom map. Start small and work your way up. Learn how to make good Doom maps first then move on to something as complicated as translating an album to a WAD.

 

Quote

How do I open a .rar file? What dumb program do I need to get?

http://www.7-zip.org/download.html

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4 minutes ago, xvertigox said:

What you're asking is way too complicated. Try to figure out what emotions and themes the song(s) are trying to convey and see if you're able to express that in for form of a Doom map. Start small and work your way up. Learn how to make good Doom maps first then move on to something as complicated as translating an album to a WAD.

 

http://www.7-zip.org/download.html

Thanks. Turns out it was a dumb program I already had. ;)

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5 minutes ago, xvertigox said:

What you're asking is way too complicated. Try to figure out what emotions and themes the song(s) are trying to convey and see if you're able to express that in for form of a Doom map. Start small and work your way up. Learn how to make good Doom maps first then move on to something as complicated as translating an album to a WAD.

 

http://www.7-zip.org/download.html

 

I'm not asking for anything. It's an idea and something I want to do.

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Building on what @Snikle and @xvertigox said above, music videos are a good way to get started on this.  I'm not so sure about NIN, but I looked at the track listing for Holywood and found three different music videos for songs on that album.  My suggestion is to pick ONE song, watch the corresponding music video, and think about what in the video could go in ONE Doom map.  The Fight Song music video is set in a football field.  I don't remember a lot of WADs in a football field.  Can you make the monster placement interesting?  I don't know, try it out.  

About custom sprites and texturing, (a) there are enough custom assets at Realm667 and around DW that you can use with permission, and with a little tweaking should fit most themes, and (b) custom content isn't as important as creating the mood you want.  Here's an example from my WAD.  About 15% of the way through MAP01 of SYATAQWA.WAD, I was banging my head on the wall trying to think of what should come next.  Then I watched the music video for Can I Play With Madness by Iron Maiden:

 


Sudden drop, underground tunnel, dark blue hallway (which would be a nice contrast from the green/cyan area I was building), catch a glimpse of some cultists and follow them.  Of course I did my own spin on it so I'm not totally ripping it off, but the video gave me a cool idea to work with.  Here's the corresponding sequence in the map:

 

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48 minutes ago, SuperArjunaButt said:

Building on what @Snikle and @xvertigox said above, music videos are a good way to get started on this.  I'm not so sure about NIN, but I looked at the track listing for Holywood and found three different music videos for songs on that album.  My suggestion is to pick ONE song, watch the corresponding music video, and think about what in the video could go in ONE Doom map.  The Fight Song music video is set in a football field.  I don't remember a lot of WADs in a football field.  Can you make the monster placement interesting?  I don't know, try it out.  

About custom sprites and texturing, (a) there are enough custom assets at Realm667 and around DW that you can use with permission, and with a little tweaking should fit most themes, and (b) custom content isn't as important as creating the mood you want.  Here's an example from my WAD.  About 15% of the way through MAP01 of SYATAQWA.WAD, I was banging my head on the wall trying to think of what should come next.  Then I watched the music video for Can I Play With Madness by Iron Maiden:

 


Sudden drop, underground tunnel, dark blue hallway (which would be a nice contrast from the green/cyan area I was building), catch a glimpse of some cultists and follow them.  Of course I did my own spin on it so I'm not totally ripping it off, but the video gave me a cool idea to work with.  Here's the corresponding sequence in the map:

 

 

I don't know how big the field would have to be but it would probably have to be a medium sized field. I would also have to make custom monsters and somehow add a script or something to where they wouldn't attack you, I don't know if doom supports mp3 format but that's what I would like to use instead of a midi version of the which ever song i'll use. Also if I decide to make a WAD based off the fight song I would have to somehow use a linedef that you cross and either monsters come out of a hidden wall or a elevator type thing to where the floor raises up but I don't know how to do that but I have tried to do it once and it just didn't work out good enough. And I would have to add sound effects but again I do not know how to do that very well because I would have to either download custom ones or record them myself, there's just so many thing's I would like to do but can't do without knowing how to and having some creativity with it.

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I think, you should start with less complicated mapping format like boom. I know, scripting, custom sounds in map and custom sprites sounds awesome, but if you don't know about basic mapping things, it can make your life more harder than now. There are some ports which supports mp3, ogg and music changes like gzdoom and prboom+. Start simple and later jump into more advanced mapping formats. 

 

 

Besides, I've built map based on my depressive thoughts several months ago. Not a true masterpiece, but it did job perfectly. It's mostly based on grey/brown/white texture combinations and has sad metal midi to express what I needed in that moment. Map was in boom format, it's all what I needed in that day. 

 

Anyway, nobody can't stop you, so watch and read tutorials, ask questions, seek criticism for your maps and improve, no matter which mapping format you will choose. My post is more advice and sharing experience. 

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28 minutes ago, Myst.Haruko said:

I think, you should start with less complicated mapping format like boom. I know, scripting, custom sounds in map and custom sprites sounds awesome, but if you don't know about basic mapping things, it can make your life more harder than now. There are some ports which supports mp3, ogg and music changes like gzdoom and prboom+. Start simple and later jump into more advanced mapping formats. 

 

 

Besides, I've built map based on my depressive thoughts several months ago. Not a true masterpiece, but it did job perfectly. It's mostly based on grey/brown/white texture combinations and has sad metal midi to express what I needed in that moment. Map was in boom format, it's all what I needed in that day. 

 

Anyway, nobody can't stop you, so watch and read tutorials, ask questions, seek criticism for your maps and improve, no matter which mapping format you will choose. My post is more advice and sharing experience. 

 

I have made one WAD that is very, very, very dark I mean a WAD that only someone like me could make and be called insane and called crazy. I never intend to release that WAD, except to one member that's apart of doomworld but even after that he/she will have to do one of two thing's. 1. Delete it or 2. Keep it. I don't expect them to keep it, they'll probably want it off their computer as soon as they're done playing it and no I cannot tell you what that wad is because if I told you I would be put into a mental hospital and kept there for months until I'm deemed safe or at least a little bit sane.

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@SayWhatOneMoreTime Honestly man, it might be for the best if you made it public. Sometimes not sharing things, even bad things, is the worst thing you can do to yourself at a time like this.

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1 hour ago, StevenC21 said:

@SayWhatOneMoreTime Honestly man, it might be for the best if you made it public. Sometimes not sharing things, even bad things, is the worst thing you can do to yourself at a time like this.

 

1 hour ago, Liberation said:

@SayWhatOneMoreTime Just release it!

 

I'm going to work on the wad sometime soon, it's not fully finished but once I release that wad to the public there's no going back. After I release the wad I will have to do something... This isn't a cry for help either so don't worry, I'm fine.

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2 minutes ago, StevenC21 said:

@SayWhatOneMoreTime Hmm? Can you elaborate on your meaning?

 

Like for example: If I make a wad that involves killing innocent people or if I listen to Marilyn manson or rammstein, it doesn't mean that I want to hurt other's. It doesn't mean that I would because I would never do that, I could never do that. If I had to kill someone to save my own life I wouldn't be able to because I'm too much of a weakling who has too much empathy and too much of a heart. The only person I could ever hurt is myself.

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12 minutes ago, StevenC21 said:

@SayWhatOneMoreTime I get it. I really do. It's a fascination. I also have wierd fascinations with violence.

 

Just like with any video game it's fantasy not reality. It's not like you're killing someone real, you're killing a pixelated person who can't feel pain although sometimes I  feel regret after killing a npc that didn't deserve to be killed it's still fake either way.

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Posted (edited)

Got some more advice for you.

That's just what I'd do. You don't have to follow it.

First take the song and turn it into a story. Well it kind of already is a story, but it should be a summary of the whole album I guess. Then you have to decide if you make the gameplay stand out or the story stand out. Basically if it's an actual challenge or something more of world you just wander into. In the later case, the atmosphere is really important.

Also it's probably advisable to try to make it original, it's gonna be your interpretation of it. That's more difficult obviously.

Or you try to convert the actual song beats into a map, then it basically has to be an Audiosurf level, but with doom enemies as the lows and highs. I don't know if that makes sense.

Or if you just want a good map with just the album playing in the background, that's also an option.

 

Also I recommended this to you in another thread, but go look up Jordan Peterson videos on youtube, search for shadow self, chaos and order, maybe that helps something. This guy is no joke, he is a psychology professor.

Edited by pulkmees

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, pulkmees said:

Got some more advice for you.

That's just what I'd do. You don't have to follow it.

First take the song and turn it into a story. Well it kind of already is a story, but it should be a summary of the whole album I guess. Then you have to decide if you make the gameplay stand out or the story stand out. Basically if it's an actual challenge or something more of world you just wander into. In the later case, the atmosphere is really important.

Also it's probably advisable to try to make it original, it's gonna be your interpretation of it. That's more difficult obviously.

Or you try to convert the actual song beats into a map, then it basically has to be an Audiosurf level, but with doom enemies as the lows and highs. I don't know if that makes sense.

Or if you just want a good map with just the album playing in the background, that's also an option.

 

Also I recommended this to you in another thread, but go look up Jordan Petersen videos on youtube, search for shadow self, chaos and order, maybe that helps something. This guy is no joke, he is a psychology professor.

 

I want to add a score board type system thing like how the music video has and I also want to do the death valley vs the jocks football player sprites but I don't know how to draw custom sprites, I know how to do custom sprites. I don't know if I want to do midi or mp3 (If that's possible) And I don't know how long the football field should be and since I'm not into sports I don't really know what all to put onto the field.

 

I want to also want to make a background stage thing to where there's a Marilyn manson sprite on the stage itself but again, I don't know how to draw a sprite and plus I don't understand how to do sprite height/size. Sorry if none of this makes sense. 

 

EDIT: I also don't know what to name the wad itself. I was thinking about naming it "Kill the jocks" Or "Death valley vs the jocks"

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Posted (edited)

Back in 1996 or 1997 I made a Nine Inch Nails Doom II .wad. It was crap, but all 3 albums at the time were covered. Episode 1, Pretty Hate Machine with lots of goth club scenery with metal walls, plenty of album cover walls. Episode 2 was Broken full of hell, fire and in hindsight I should have made each level like the Broken movie, but I don't think I knew what it was at the time. There were plenty of album covered walls, but not as many singles as Broken was an EP. Episode 3 was TDS, full of browns and yellows. At least I had more single album covers to work with.

 

Each level had a different midi from the albums.

1 - 10 Pretty Hate Machine

11 - 16 Broken

17 - 30 TDS

31 - 32 Dead Souls and ... Burn (although I suppose I should have done Physical and Suck)

 

Its pretty amazing how that all worked out song to level wise.

 

These levels were more like basic art galleries or museums with and a few enemies. Lots of copy / paste levels. No real geometry or cover as I didn't know what I was doing, I just wanted NIN and had wintex, waded 1.83 and enough midis to choke a horse.

 

Do I have screenshots still? Nope. Do I have the .wad now? Nope. I wish I had shared it online rather than with a single friend just for the sake of nostalgia and having it now.

 

About once a year I think about recreating it with Doombuilder since its been almost a decade since I've taken a stab at making a Doom level. There's just something about early NIN and Doom that go well together.

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1 hour ago, SayWhatOneMoreTime said:

 

Like for example: If I make a wad that involves killing innocent people or if I listen to Marilyn manson or rammstein, it doesn't mean that I want to hurt other's. It doesn't mean that I would because I would never do that, I could never do that. If I had to kill someone to save my own life I wouldn't be able to because I'm too much of a weakling who has too much empathy and too much of a heart. The only person I could ever hurt is myself.

Now, wait a minute. I just finished searching for that thread where you were asking about what happens after death. You know, the one where you've lost your memories, and you're a bad person...an outcast that doesn't deserve life and is constantly bored.

 

I looked for that thread, because I spent a lot of time trying to suggest some tactics you could use to re-integrate with people around you, build value and confidence, and worth, and curb boredom. You sounded like you were going thru a difficult time, so I took a chance, and spent my time suggesting some activities you could use to improve your situation. I wanted to see if you had a response...to see if you tried any of the suggestions, or even if you had considered any of it.

 

I didn't find a response. Instead, I find more threads about how God should kill you, or how you've got the most twisted WAD in existence, or how you hope someone will find your answer for you "before it's too late...".

 

Depression is a serious thing. You sprinkle the idea of suicide into your posts as if it's some kind of damn condiment. In your text that I quoted, you suggest that you've got all this empathy, and a huge heart, yet seem to have no idea what hurting yourself would do to the people that love you the most. That's not empathy, that's just selfishness.

 

Some of your recent gems:

  • "You know I need you more than ever but you're not here and I- I'm going to die soon." - A real charmer.
  • "Happiness is a gift, it's not just handed out to you" - Yes, a gift is when something is handed to you.
  • "I just hope my parent's see what's wrong with me before it's too late." - Blackmailing your parents?
  • "I don't tell them to go away I just make them go away because I'm annoying and I tell them if I'm bothering them to tell me and i'll leave them alone but they don't ever tell me when I'm clearing bothering them" - So, you have polite people around you, so you choose to annoy them. I know this, because you admit to knowing that you are clearly bothering them, and then you reward their politeness by 'making them go away'.

None of this sounds like empathy to me, quite the opposite. You seem to have the benefit of having lots of people around you that care for you, and you seem to enjoy toying with their love. You have yet to thank anyone on this site for trying to help you.

 

Here's a thought: If you want your life to improve, tone down the shock and awe campaign against the caring people around you, stop fishing for sympathy like an emotional vampire, and take responsibility for your own happiness. You talk about wanting to make WADs - that's a start. But, instead of saying over and over that you don't know how to do any of it, take the time to learn - there's resources all over this and other sites. If you enjoy Doom, there's no reason to be bored. Any one of us could play 10 WADs a day for the rest of our lives, without ever running out.

 

You know, some of us struggle each day, with depression, and regret, and remorse, and guilt, and sorrow, and devastating loss. And yet, we still strive to avoid dropping those burdens on the people who love us. We don't walk around with a "Woe is me" sign, while ignoring attempts to help by others. And, some us have no more shoulders to cry on.

 

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@SayWhatOneMoreTimeLook, if you're truly depressed, I can respect that, and I'll do whatever is in my power to help you down the right path. If that's the case, send me a PM, and we'll go from there.

 

It's important for you to realize that, when you complete a sentence with a vague, ominous warning - that can have a devastating effect on people. In a text medium like a web forum, emotion, inference, and sarcasm are difficult, if impossible, to detect at times. We are responsible for the way our words are perceived by others. It is our responsibility to make sure that our words are understood as intended.

 

So, I guess I am asking for you to state your words and intentions clearly and specifically, when dealing with such important subject matter, to make sure that you are not misunderstood. Someone with your claimed level of empathy must see how important this is. Ok?

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