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HAK3180

I'm Also Looking to Play and Record Your Maps

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@The Mysterious Moustachio, honestly, I wouldn't do much with 28 besides a few very early supplies. The "opening" basically has 50 enemies, including an arch-vile, arachnotron, a few cacodemons, a pain elemental., and two mancs. For that whole section you get one stimpack and about 10 bonuses (+ megaarmor in secret) and then a medikit at the end of it. That's not the end of the world, but you combine that with just 32 shells and 264 bullets. I've not been able to kill everything in there without getting ammo from the big open section and coming back. But the rest of the map you gradually accumulate stuff. And the BFG secret is pretty easy. And it's Map 28, so I wouldn't water it down much.

 

7 is an intermission text slot, an episode transition (traditionally, anyway), so I think it's okay for it to be a bit of an outlier in difficulty. As long as there's no perimeter ghost damaging floor ;)

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@Austinado

 

Doomworld forum topic

 

Appearance is not great. I’m not a big fan of custom monsters, especially when they appear to be monsters you know but aren’t. But the layout and flow is pretty good here. The identity of this map is in the big oval room. You have to go in there ill-equipped but the supplies are there. “The only way out is through,” as it were. It’s a touch basic but it works.

 

Bottom line: layout is the best attribute here

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@Casketkrusher

 

Doomworld forum topic

 

This map feels empty, probably by design, but even with the random sudden teleports, it’s not very hard. I like how much exploring you can do. It’s not a huge sandbox, but there are optional areas, secret or not. The map looks good enough. There’s nothing to draw negative attention except perhaps the dedication to right angles.

 

Bottom line: Not a bad little city map

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Posted (edited)

@HAK3180 I'm updating my mass extinction file with some fixes on map06 and 07, if you wait for it before recording them it would be nice!

 

Edit: @HAK3180 it's updated now

Edited by nicolas monti

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@HAK3180 That floor was fixed. I think it was actually a bug somehow having to do with the fact that those last few layers are meant to lower into lava. I'm guessing one layer got the wrong properties pasted onto it by mistake. Either way, it's definitely been fixed in the latest wad alpha release.

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@HAK3180 Loving it, thanks for trying these out. I should've clarified pistol starts vs. continuous play, but neither one was really the intention. I just tried to balance for both, so that whichever the player preferred, they were good to go. I think 99.9% of my own playtesting was done with pistol starts though, so, the gameplay is likely geared towards that.

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@SilverMiner

 

download the .zip

 

 

 

The texturing is a little bit bizarre, but I think the space gives this map plenty of cohesion. The layout is basically a central hub with outer areas that all connect to each other. I was not entirely sure what my actual goal was, but that may be because I never visited the exit area until the end, even though it was accessible all along. Appearance is pretty good with some minor nitpicks. The biggest issue was that the huge supply of ammo for very few monsters by comparison. I must have exited with 300 cells and 50 rockets, this in a map of 112 monsters, many of which were low-health monsters.

 

Bottom line: good-looking map with nice layout but not enough enemies to fill it

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@Capellan

 

Doomworld forum topic

 

 

 

I really like the appearance here. It’s got that sweet spot level of realism. The map distinctly makes you choose your path a couple times, so there’s probably an optimal way to do it, but it seems like it would be fun and engaging regardless.

 

Bottom line: Another immersive experience that could probably go any number of fun ways.

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@Milkman

 

Doomworld forum topic

 

 

 

It’s environmental. It’s cramped. It’s action-packed. And the level changes are really fun here. I do question the lack of super shotgun outside a secret. This map would get a bit grindy without it, and much more difficult. But there’s not much to complain about otherwise.

 

Bottom line: A unique style that’s fun to observe and fun to play.

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11 hours ago, HAK3180 said:

I really like the appearance here. It’s got that sweet spot level of realism. The map distinctly makes you choose your path a couple times, so there’s probably an optimal way to do it, but it seems like it would be fun and engaging regardless.

 

Well, finding your way to the blue key is definitely optimal on this one :)  but wherever SPECTRUM offers multiple obvious routes forward, I've tried to make the options fairly balanced. I'm sure a dedicated speedrunner will find an optimal choice, mind you, but I've tried to give some benefits whichever way you go.  I've also tried to include completely optional content in most of the maps - there are generally areas you do not have to visit unless you want to Max it.  This map is probably the one with the most optional areas, though.

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12 hours ago, HAK3180 said:

@Capellan

Bottom line: Another immersive experience that could probably go any number of fun ways.

 

I was hoping to see you get blasted by The Shotgunner Trap -- so you could suffer like I suffered -- but once you got the Blue Key I knew my hopes were dashed. Congrats on finding that path and thanks for your master class on Capellan's Subtle Secrets. I will apply your techniques and, with luck, increase the number of secrets I find in Adam's maps. 

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@Steve D

 

idgames download page

 

I had a lot of fun in here. There’s always a secret taunting you and even in the map proper, there tends to be a little more than meets the eye. Visually, it’s a little cleaner than E1 but still has some of that charm of randomness.

 

Bottom line: It looks and plays like Knee-Deep in the Dead slightly grandified.

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@Casketkrusher

 

Doomworld forum topic

 

This map takes small spaces a little too far. The 64-wide hallways are all just right angles, doors, and shooting stuff in front of you. Some of the meaty parts are very grindy too. I think Casketkrusher should experiment with more height variation and inaccessible parts of the levels for monsters to shoot from, like turrets and raised alcoves because the combat is usually pretty static. But despite that, the layout in general is pretty good. It flows pretty well, has a bit of a maze vibe, and includes a few bigger areas for variety.

 

Bottom line: The extreme confinement doesn’t allow for great gameplay

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, HAK3180 said:

 

 

 

@HAK3180

Thanks for playing again, I wonder what your idea is for making teleport enemies less common in this map. Should I just put them there straight away without teleporting? Also in my new version I used scripts for a lot of things like in the outside area now raises 2 walls with each a switch. In my new version it would only lower if the player kills everything. That counts for more areas in the whole mappack. I've been polishing these first 4 maps with everybodys advice. I'm going to send you map3 if its fully ready it will include not much teleporting enemies this time and I've scripted most switches with a text message with what it does. Atleast for the ones that do something out of eye sight. Map 02 has been updated with more buildings and more details. No more rectangle blocks as skyscraper buildings. Map05 is going to be something different design wise. Also I've used scripts for teleporting enemies so they don't spawn with a group of like 5 to 6 straight into your face. It will have a bit of delay for a new wave. Much more breathing room.

 

Cheers!

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1 hour ago, Casketkrusher said:

[Response]

I'll throw in my two cents because I've watched HAK play all of your levels. I remember when he was in the downtown map he recommended that instead of the teleports, monster closets would be a cleaner, nicer alternate. I couldn't agree with him more here. The type of teleporter trap to kinda jumpscare your enemies can be a good tactic, however you seem to be using it to the point where its very predictable. I recommend monster closets or having the enemies rights there. Or if you really wanna keep the teleporter traps everywhere, place the monsters a few feet away from the predictable trap. It is ok if its predictable, Doomed Space Wars is a great wad that has those types of elements. But in my opinion I would get rid of a lot of them. Thats all.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Casketkrusher said:

Thanks for playing again, I wonder what your idea is for making teleport enemies less common in this map. Should I just put them there straight away without teleporting?

 

I'll describe some approaches, but I'd suggest paying attention to what other (decent) maps do as you play them. Many ways of thinking 'click' best when you immerse yourself in them while playing stuff -- verbal advice only goes so far. 


When you use teleporting and spawning monsters, which is fine, look for ways to integrate their appearance with the map design itself. Looking at that video, the monsters have a habit of simply appearing at arbitrary locations. And that happens a lot. You usually want the player to feel 'it makes sense that monsters appeared at that spot'. These locations might be marked on the floor or ceiling somehow. They might be underneath architecture or structural design elements where it makes sense for monsters to appear. They might be at geometric points of emphasis (which isn't always possible). Those are not hard rules. The important thing is that it should just feel logical, after the fact. 

 

That said, entirely unmarked teleports and spawns can still be viable. As a mapper you will find good spots to use them. But doing it too often, in sight of the player*, will get old faster than many, if not most, techniques. It can contribute to the impression that monster use is divorced from the map design.

 

*- It should be pointed out that it is a natural fit for remote monster deployment.

 

Additionally, mix in different means of indirect monster deployment. One broad category is placing monsters behind barriers that initially conceal them and then release them. Monster closets are the most familiar example of this. Sometimes you might create additional space for the monsters to appear (as closets do); sometimes you might place the monsters in the existing space and then hide them with barriers. Another broad category is placing monsters on moving geometry itself: have monsters, initially out of sight, raise up or descend. (People might equate this category to the 'instapop' technique, but there is no reason to do that, as it is a lot broader.) Beyond that, get creative. Monsters, initially perched and visible, can lower. Monsters can teleport in the map itself. Monsters can slide or do other silly things. Monsters that can fly can float over barriers and windows or out of pits. You can get creative with sound: the deaf/ambush flag, even sound-blocking 'zones'. You can get creative with sighted alerts. I can't describe everything that is possible, or contextualize it with a concrete example. For that, play a lot of stuff. 

 

I introduced a veritable goodie bag of indirect placements there, but don't let that make you lose sight of the benefits of smarter direct deployment (monsters placed in the map by default, and not 'revealed' in any way). Direct placements have a perceptual advantage indirect placements sometimes don't -- they can feel more 'natural' and less like a 'technique' of some sort. 

 

Edited by rdwpa

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, HAK3180 said:

Bottom line: It looks and plays like Knee-Deep in the Dead slightly grandified.

 

Glad you liked this better than M1, HAK3180. Funny thing, Firedust posted in the SS thread that M1 is his least favorite map in the set, because he feels it has "wonky, unengaging" progression. It seems the symmetry got to him, too. As I told him, M1 is the only map I've ever drawn on paper first instead of composing directly in the editor. It's because the combat is based on crossfires and I thought it would be a good idea to get them down on paper. Now you guys have me thinking of ways to break up that symmetry a bit. ;)

 

As for this map, it was originally made in 1997 as a Knee Deep style map for Doom 2, so it had to be converted to fit in this mapset. It wasn't until this map was brought in that I decided to connect them all together into one giant base. You saw that at the end, where you went into the hub area from M1 on your way to M3, and you'll travel through there again on M8.

 

One revision I plan to make for v1.1 is to put something over that tiny door in the nukage that leads to the Yellow Key fight. Some Players have had extreme difficulty finding that path -- alas, none of them my testers :D -- so I want to make it more noticeable somehow. 

 

Another thing, you missed a Backpack secret when you pressed on a misaligned section of wall. It was a shootable door, rarely seen these days, but fairly common back in the '90s. Oddly enough, you actually never went up close to the window to see what was in the other room. You said, "Well, there's nothing up here" -- except a Backpack, 2 rockets and 8 shells. :D Expect more 90sisms, like in M1 when you found the secret Blue Armor and expected its platform to lower as you walked up to it. But in the '90s, it was generally assumed that any short platform with Support2 or 3 on it's sides was a user-activated lowering floor. At least that's how I remember it. DotW warned me about that during testing, but I kept things the old way because most of the maps are genuinely old and I wanted to retain that vintage feel with all its '90s "quirkiness". Luckily, you pressed the side and got the armor. So I'll warn you ahead of time that in M6 you'll see a Soulsphere atop a tall Support3 column, so press on the column to get it. I know you would anyway, but one player didn't, thinking there must be a switch somewhere to lower it, and gypped himself out of a great power-up. So now I have to get rid of those 90sisms in v1.1 so modern players don't get screwed over. And thus, another link to the past is lost. ;D  

 

 

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@rdwpa

Thank you, this is very imformative for my next maps (and old ones). As a beginning map maker its really hard to come up with nice encounters or natural encounters if you will.

 

Cheers!

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@RonnieJamesDiner

 

Doomworld forum topic

 

The idea is come back when you’re better equipped. However, it’s quite plausible to skip the meat of the map and just exit. But the “proper” way to play is pretty fun. You are rewarded for quickness down the drain as the monsters will keep coming around the corners to get you. This is also a case of ammo scarcity that I actually appreciate.

 

Bottom line: nice idea that seems to have a pretty glaring (but easily changeable) flaw for those not interested in a max run

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@Capellan

 

Doomworld forum topic

 

It’s a big interconnected tech base, but not in the classic Knee-Deep in the Dead or Shores of Hell sense. There’s not a lot of void space. It’s mostly medium rooms with door and/or window connection. The order you play it in is largely up to you. There are even multiple keycard pickups of each type. Still, the opposition is always there. You’re hard-pressed to find a foothold or safe place. My impression of this thing is that it was thoroughly tested: there’s a lot to do, but no matter what, you’re going to get interesting gameplay.

 

Bottom line: Choose your own tech base adventure.

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On 7/27/2019 at 7:51 AM, HAK3180 said:

@SilverMiner

 

download the .zip

 

 

 

The texturing is a little bit bizarre, but I think the space gives this map plenty of cohesion. The layout is basically a central hub with outer areas that all connect to each other. I was not entirely sure what my actual goal was, but that may be because I never visited the exit area until the end, even though it was accessible all along. Appearance is pretty good with some minor nitpicks. The biggest issue was that the huge supply of ammo for very few monsters by comparison. I must have exited with 300 cells and 50 rockets, this in a map of 112 monsters, many of which were low-health monsters.

 

Bottom line: good-looking map with nice layout but not enough enemies to fill it

 

Thanks for the review! (I'll manage to cut down on ammo)

 

Huh, you hadn't noticed a missing texture. Maybe you didn't want to. ( I forget to fix it all the time :) It's near a room where you get a invisphere (line in a sector with imp that lowers when you get a sphere)

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8 hours ago, HAK3180 said:

Bottom line: Choose your own tech base adventure.

 

Just watched this one.  What's the time and date stamp on the .WAD file you are using?  If it's not the very first release, then a fix I thought I made hasn't worked properl, and I need to work out why.

 

I can see a couple of tweaks I need to make to improve some combats, and I forgot that you would be able to see that insta-pop baron from that direction.  Need to make that happen out of the player's sight in all cases.  I don't like it when I can see monsters pop out of solid ground.

 

Need to do something about monsters tending to get stuck in that little cubby hole near one of the red doors, too.

 

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Update: I think I finally have M4 working as intended.  Link in the SPECTRUM thread updated.

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Posted (edited)

Hi @HAK3180

 

MAP03 is finished!

 

My first 3 maps have been updated, MAP02 has a whole new section to explore, switches have been put to default (no glowing eyes if not activated) text messages are now given to switches which do something out of "eye sight" so the player never gets confused. MAP04 still needs to be updated but the first 3 are final. Difficulty has been ramped up a bit, no more annoying teleportation of enemies especially on MAP02, Monsters (most of them) now roam the streets in that map. Still not sure about the OP super shotgun. 

 

Feel freel to give it a go :)

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/poqdys0ob2eiw8s/Doom - Condemned To Eternity (Original music).wad?dl=0

 

Cheers!

 

*dropbox is not my favorite file uploader tbh.

Edited by Casketkrusher

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It's a demo of 4 maps, I want to mix the old style with the new style. 

* The duration per map is 7 to 11 minutes.

* The difficulty is similar to the Alien vendeta.

NOTE:

Spoiler

 

I want to create a neutral wad that has difficulty but easy to see. That's why comments help me balance them (sorry mi english is bad D:) Ty Google Translate xD

WAD:

Spoiler

 

 

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@Austinado

 

Doomworld forum topic

 

The map is a little bit choppy; every part is too distinct. That being said, progression is fine, but I didn’t much like this map because of the density of custom monsters, including what I thought was not great use of the super shotgunner. The maze part also got stale. It could have been fine for a while, but it was the same thing throughout and it was a decent size.

 

Bottom line: Too much emphasis on nonstandard Doom monsters for my liking

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