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Spike

REMEMBER THE FALLEN!!! (discussion thread)

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I don't hear many instances of people in third-world countries being mourned - these are the townsfolk who are raped and slaughtered, people who weren't given an option as to whether they were to be involved in the war.

The media has a habit of turning a blind eye and focusing on the problems at home.

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IMJack said:

Pray for the dead.

Pray for the fourteen men who decided that their beliefs were important enough for them to die for.

Actually only about 6 of the hijackers knew of the final outcome, the rest just thought it was a "normal" hijack, the leaders were heard laughing about the fact the others were fooled. So even if the leaders believed they were so in the right that it was an holy act, they cheated the others out of the knowledge.

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fodders said:

Actually only about 6 of the hijackers knew of the final outcome, the rest just thought it was a "normal" hijack, the leaders were heard laughing about the fact the others were fooled. So even if the leaders believed they were so in the right that it was an holy act, they cheated the others out of the knowledge.

Now when was the last time a hijacker got away with their life? That plane is going to go back to the ground one way or another, and if it lands safely, there will be large men with guns waiting to make the hijackers regret ever thinking about it.

o_0;

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IMJack said:

Now when was the last time a hijacker got away with their life? That plane is going to go back to the ground one way or another, and if it lands safely, there will be large men with guns waiting to make the hijackers regret ever thinking about it.

o_0;

Pre 9/11 almost all hijacks ended without major loss of life, IIRC one involved in the 9/11 hijacks was freed by India due to another hijack years ago. Most planes land safely, then negotiations take place, that will probably never happen again since flight93.

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fodders said:

Pre 9/11 almost all hijacks ended without major loss of life, IIRC one involved in the 9/11 hijacks was freed by India due to another hijack years ago. Most planes land safely, then negotiations take place, that will probably never happen again since flight93.

What I', saying is, most of the time, the hijackers end up dead or in chains, even if none of the passengers are harmed.

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fraggle said:

There seem to be several 9/11 threads. Perhaps the "thread merge" feature would be prudent?

I got the impression this had been separated deliberately into "tributes" and "discussion" (read: America-bashing). This seems pretty sensible given how emotive the subject is.

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* myk prays for Maonth's sake.

Grazza: yeah, it's either the bashing... or the butt kissing.

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myk said:

Grazza: yeah, it's either the bashing... or the butt kissing.

I prefer to think of it as "lip service" versus "replies to lip service".

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Who the fuck said anything about America bashing? What Spike is bashing in this thread is the WORLD MEDIA and the focus of the damn media. Not the Americans specifically. Use your goddamn grey cells before replying.

Now, of course it's terrible that all those people died in this terrorist act and of course it would be a great pleasure to me to see Osama bin Laden in the same situation as some of all those mutilated human corpses found hanging on walls and from ceilings in Doom, but COME THE FUCK ON!
Thousands of innocent people die everyday in other countries - it's natural selection at work. Do some of all these people get lots and lost of media coverage???
That was a very leading question to which I assume you all know the answer.

And if anyone of you think that the 9/11 victims deserve more coverage because you think "they are better than all those losers in the third world countries and wherever", then I can only hope for your own sake that you'll see the light one day.

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There are doubts emerging that flight93 went down on "it's own volition". There is no doubt that the passengers did try to rush the cockpit but new witnesses indicate it was shot down by Air Force.
THE unmarked military-style jet swooped down at high speed through the valley, twice circled the smouldering black scar where Flight 93 had careered into the ground just seconds earlier and then hurtled off over the horizon.
At least six eyewitnesses saw the mysterious aircraft on the morning of September 11 last year. But the US authorities deny it ever existed.

What was the white jet doing there and why won't they admit to its presence? Why did other witnesses see smoke and flames trailing from Flight 93 as it fell from the sky, indicating a possible explosion aboard?

Or - and this is proving to be the most uncomfortable question of all - in the moments before the airliner piled into the black, spongey earth at 575mph did an American fighter pilot have to do the unthinkable and shoot down a US civil airliner?

Susan Mcelwain, 51, who lives two miles from the site, knows what she saw - the white plane rocketed directly over her head.

"It came right over me, I reckon just 40 or 50ft above my mini-van," she recalled. "It was so low I ducked instinctively. It was travelling real fast, but hardly made any sound.

"Then it disappeared behind some trees. A few seconds later I heard this great explosion and saw this fireball rise up over the trees, so I figured the jet had crashed. The ground really shook. So I dialled 911 and told them what happened.

"I'd heard nothing about the other attacks and it was only when I got home and saw the TV that I realised it wasn't the white jet, but Flight 93.

Ididn't think much more about it until the authorities started to say there had been no other plane. The plane I saw was heading right to the point where Flight 93 crashed and must have been there at the very moment it came down.

"There's no way I imagined this plane - it was so low it was virtually on top of me. It was white with no markings but it was definitely military, it just had that look.

"It had two rear engines, a big fin on the back like a spoiler on the back of a car and with two upright fins at the side. I haven't found one like it on the internet. It definitely wasn't one of those executive jets. The FBI came and talked to me and said there was no plane around.

"Then they changed their story and tried to say it was a plane taking pictures of the crash 3,000ft up.

"But I saw it and it was there before the crash and it was 40ft above my head. They did not want my story - nobody here did."

Mrs Mcelwain, who looks after special needs children, is further convinced the whole truth has yet to come out because of a phone call she had within hours from the wife of an air force friend of the family.

"She said her husband had called her that morning and said 'I can't talk, but we've just shot a plane down,' " Susan said. "I presumed they meant Flight 93. I have no doubt those brave people on board tried to do something, but I don't believe what happened on the plane brought it down.

"If they shot it down, or something else happened, everyone, especially the victims' families, have a right to know."

Lee Purbaugh, 32, was the only person to see the last seconds of Flight 93 as it came down on former strip-mining land at precisely 10.06am - and he also saw the white jet.

He was working at the Rollock Inc. scrapyard on a ridge overlooking the point of impact, less than half a mile away. "I heard this real loud noise coming over my head," he told the Daily Mirror. "I looked up and it was Flight 93, barely 50ft above me. It was coming down in a 45 degree and rocking from side to side. Then the nose suddenly dipped and it just crashed into the ground. There was this big fireball and then a huge cloud of smoke."

But did he see another plane? "Yes, there was another plane," Lee said. "I didn't get a good look but it was white and it circled the area about twice and then it flew off over the horizon."

Tom Spinelli, 28, was working at India Lake Marina, a mile and a half away. "I saw the white plane," he said.

"It was flying around all over the place like it was looking for something. I saw it before and after the crash."

India Lake also contributes to the view there was an explosion on board before the Newark-San Francisco flight came down. Debris rained down on the lake - a curious feat if, as the US government insists, there was no mid-air explosion and the plane was intact until it hit the ground.

"It was mainly mail, bits of in-flight magazine and scraps of seat cloth," Tom said. "The authorities say it was blown here by the wind." But there was only a 10mph breeze and you were a mile and a half away? Tom raised his eyebrows, rolled his eyes and said: "Yeah, that's what they reckon."

Light debris was also found eight miles away in New Baltimore. A section of engine weighing a ton was located 2,000 yards - over a mile -from the crash site. Theorists point out a Sidewinder heat-seeking missile attacks the hottest part of aircraft - the engine.

The authorities say the impact bounced it there. But the few pieces of surviving fuselage, local coroner Wallace Miller told us, were "no bigger than a carrier bag".

Nearly all the passengers were reduced to charcoal on impact and the largest piece of human tissue found was a section of spine eight inches long.

CURIOUSLY, military officials insist there was never any pursuit of Flight 93, although they were informed that it was a suspected hijack at 9.16am, 50 minutes before the plane came down.

At 9.35am they assumed it was heading for Washington DC after it changed course in a 180 degree turn and three F-16s - top speed 1,800mph - now patrolling over the capital were told to "protect the White House at all costs".

An anonymous flight controller said on the day that an F-16 was "in hot pursuit" of Flight 93 - Washington to Shanksville is seven to 10 minutes flying time.

A few minutes before the crash Bill Wright, piloting a single-engine Piper, could see Flight 93 three miles away, but was suddenly told to turn away and land immediately without explanation.

At 9.58am a 911 call - the last mobile phone contact from Flight 93 - was made from one of the airliner's toilets by passenger Edward Felt.

Glenn Cramer, the emergency supervisor who answered it, said on the day: "He was very distraught. He said he believed the plane was going down.

"He did hear some sort of an explosion and saw white smoke coming from the plane, but he didn't know where. And then we lost contact with him." Glenn Cramer has now been gagged by the FBI.

Also, according to sources, the last seconds of the cockpit voice recorder are the loud sounds of wind, hinting at a possible hole somewhere in the fuselage. What caused the smoke and explosion? Why the wind sounds?

The FBI's later explanation for the white jet was that a passing civilian Fairchild Falcon 20 jet was asked to descend from 34,000ft to 5,000ft some minutes after the crash to give co-ordinates for the site. The plane and pilot have never been produced or identified. Susan Mcelwain says a Falcon 20 was not the plane she saw.

FURTHER verification that some kind of military aircraft was operating in the area is scientifically irrefutable.

At 9.22am a sonic boom - caused by supersonic flight - was picked up by an earthquake monitoring station in southern Pennsylvania, 60 miles from Shanksville.

That Todd Beamer and others launched an assault on the hijackers there is no doubt. The brief extracts released from audio tapes indicate a fierce struggle going on at the cockpit door.

But nobody - official or otherwise - has categorically said the group got into the cockpit or that their actions led to the crash. Those final, agonising moments are mere presumption

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It could be true that the plane was shot out of the sky.
I've read those stories too. Interesting.
Anyhow the government would come up with a heroic story to reassure the public I guess..

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you know, I think rememberance is a good thing. but the media here in nyc were ridiculous. everthing about the trade centers overshadowed shanksville and the pentagon, as well as loss of life in afghanistan. the whole american pride overshadowed the world community that lost lives on the planes and the towers. I think they should have focused on a lot more than what they did.

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fodders, they were ready and willing to shoot down commercial aircraft that strayed too close to the White House. Look at the photos of the Secret Service agents who stood atop the WH with Stinger launchers.

But the article does shed light on a Catch-22: People will be screaming and weeping if the plane wasn't shot down and hit another major target. People will be screaming and weeping if it is proven the plane was shot down, and they will blame the military for murder. As it is, people are screaming and weeping because, to the uninformed eye, the military or intelligence services didn't do anything to stop the attacks.

Whatever you do, you can't win, you can't break even, you can't even quit the game.

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IMJack said:

Whatever you do, you can't win, you can't break even, you can't even quit the game.

Cause entropy will take it all, although it seems a shame!

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VileSlay said:

you know, I think rememberance is a good thing. but the media here in nyc were ridiculous. everthing about the trade centers overshadowed shanksville and the pentagon, as well as loss of life in afghanistan. the whole american pride overshadowed the world community that lost lives on the planes and the towers. I think they should have focused on a lot more than what they did.

I can say that the only thing I was worried about was the Pentagon because I have relatives that work there. Also, that whole theory that it was a bomb is kind of retarded. I remember that one guy said that it couldn't have been a plane because it only punched through one ring and did a little damage to the second wing. Obviously the guy has never seen the Pentagon close up. That building is fucking huge. I'm surprised that a plane could even get all the way through one ring of it.

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Spike said:

What the fuck?

I split the thread when people started drifting into irreverence and replies. Your post just happened to be the oldest one I stuck in here.

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IMJack said:

I split the thread when people started drifting into irreverence and replies. Your post just happened to be the oldest one I stuck in here.


Ah, understanding is breached. Thanks dude.

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the_Danarchist said:

I can say that the only thing I was worried about was the Pentagon because I have relatives that work there. Also, that whole theory that it was a bomb is kind of retarded. I remember that one guy said that it couldn't have been a plane because it only punched through one ring and did a little damage to the second wing. Obviously the guy has never seen the Pentagon close up. That building is fucking huge. I'm surprised that a plane could even get all the way through one ring of it.


The theory is that it was a large missile, not a "bomb." So it would be expected to cause a lot of damage. A civil plane would have supposedly triggered the pentagons defenses, whereas a coded missile would be ignored. Also, a plane would have left traces of plane pieces (none reported but for some sort of lamp supposedly found in the field outside.)

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