The DWmegawad Club plays: Eternal Slumber Party

[rehelekretep]

ive skipped ahead to try and stay in sync with the rest of the club. ill return to maps 03-10 if/when i have time :(

 

uv / pistol starts / saves

map11 fda

well this was a mean start - i got into a horrible cycle of not realising the blue 'door' at the start was openable, after i tried it without flicking one of the skull face switches. once you get the infinite-bfg the map becomes a bit of a spam fest. there is some strategy required but this did feel awfully like one of those parodic slaughtermaps that youtube commentators bring up whenever a demo gets posted up on there. of course if you were going for a max the routing could be really fun, but as a casual play theres nothing really to motivate you to spam through and pick up megaspheres, the abundance of health seems to almost promote 'safe' play, spamming and return for health once youve got yourself a pocket of relative safety. this isnt helped by the fact that mountains of corpses tend to hide pickups as well. there is of course the usual re-use, and movement of space, which is a joy and beautiful to look at. however the rest of the texturing/design isnt as good as map01/02 have been, with a lot of monotone walls and garish silver in the final few areas.

[SleepyVelvet]

Eternal Slumber Party: Map10 - "Forest of Undesirables"
Playtime: 64 mins (prb+ cl9 uv-saveless)

Triangles!  I remember seeing this from a stream somewhere long ago, and it looked not-too-hard.  I decided to throw myself saveless at this for an hour.  Muscled through it after a while.  It's the same BFG spam-fest as the last stretch of maps (and next map) but not on a marathon lengthed map.  Worth the saveless playthrough.  Simple and smallish.

 

Eternal Slumber Party: Map11 - "Chocolate Pain"
14 mins (prb+ cl9 uv-saveless)
57 mins (prb+ cl-1 uv-savescum)
Playtime: 71 mins

I love starts like this.  Lots of deaths, but most deaths felt like there was something on my part that I messed up; mistakes from either mis-threading the needle (aim or movement), or a failed chess-moves against the imps/cacos.

Once you get the pink BFG and clear out those two cybers near the start, the map smoothens out and becomes... well pretty much similar to the BFG spam map we saw mostly thus far.  The Blue Key fight took a little bit to crack though, but I got through it.

---
I'm stuck on Map12 and it's one of those "puzzlemap" scenarios: where I'm not sure if I either broke the map, or am just confused.  I might cheat and check Doombuilder really quickly...  Map12 would be an interesting map for outsiders to jump into just to see what they have to say in a day or two.

[Crusader No Regret]

Map 12's progression stumped me until I brute forced the Patient Wing code.  If there's somewhere to find it, i don't know where.

 

Solution: 

Spoiler

Try 7335

 

[SleepyVelvet]

18 hours ago, Crusader No Regret said:

Map 12's progression stumped me until I brute forced the Patient Wing code.  If there's somewhere to find it, i don't know where.

 

ho ho hooooooooooo. buddy, i am waaaaay~ past 

that part.  I actually did the same and brute forced it too, which is part of the reason that i think there's the possibility that I broke the map.  The other two codes i've found, but never officially that one.  in fact, i thought the Type Writer code was for the Patient Wing code, because those are the only code/code-entry points i saw at first before moving forward.  thanks anyways.

 

edit:

 

found it, and i know where Patient Wing code is too now.  To think, I wall-humped almost everything!!! except for

that... it turns out there's a "locker" (*cough*) on the 2nd floor that I did not wall hump.  It is, in fact, accessible earlyish i think.  I also cheated and used doombuilder to find it, though I spoiled some other broad details of the map by coincidence.

Edited March 12, 2018 by NoisyVelvet

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP12 is my favorite TOD map of all time.

 

Spoiler

I think either the Patient Wing code or another code the middle two numbers are actually switched around.

 

[Catpho]

Ugh, sorry everyone, but no review today. So little time to play doom ;_;

[Roofi]

Same , I have a lot of work because of approaching exams , I will perhaps just try to complete maps that I never managed to finish without dying for my personal reviews (However in French)  : 03 , 05 , 15 , 21 ,  23 , 29 , 31 and 32 .

 

 

Edited March 11, 2018 by Roofi

[Nine Inch Heels]

Chocolate Pain was mostly pain at the start and pretty much chocolate only after that. A nifty little spam map with some intricacies.

 

As for gameplay, the opening should be the trickiest part of the map. Once you got your "perma-BFG" and the first megasphere you can gon into a very agressive grind-mode in which your only actual concern should be not getting tripped up and pushed against a wall, or getting caught in lethal crossfire, really. A few points that stood out for me were the geometry of the starting room with the imps and cacos, and the stairway that eventually lowers to give access to new corridors in the map. In the former case I found the geometry to be a bit too much on the "ellastic" side of things, but that aside it was in the right kind of spot in terms of size. The stairway gave the map a sort of odd dynamic once all hell was on the loose, as it made me switch from the upper part of the map to the lower parts and back and forth at times. At least I switched around quite a bit to make sure that I get don't get walled off too hard, not sure how necessary that really was in the bigger scheme of things, but I felt a bit safer doing that. Similar to "supernib" this map here is jam-packed with monsters right off the bat, so make sure to sharpen your claws before you try digging them in.

 

Visually it starts out with triangles again, and the dynamic lighting makes a bit of a comeback as well, though I experienced it as quite tame overall.

 

Had a good time with this here map, opening aside there shouldn't be too many issues with it for people who got the basics right as far as difficulty is considered. The MIDI-choice confused me a little, I must admit. For the opening it seemed quite fitting, but for the frenetic massacre that followed it felt a bit out of place. I am looking forward to the next maps, and I hope there is gonna be some more platforming coming my way, because that aspect of ToD's maps certainly took a bit of a backseat lately.

[Nine Inch Heels]

Brookhaven Hospital... Hospitals are not my favourite place to be for sure. This one here is twisted and lethal. Some people have phobias regarding places like hospitals, and playing this map sure won't help them with getting over it. It's an exploration map with a little bit of combat and the occasional 2-shots. There are 3 codes hidden around here, one of which has a messed up sequence of numbers (the blood-code), so you need to switch some numbers around to proceed past the point where you are supposed to enter it. Other than that there are several switches scattered around the map, all of which you need to locate and press to make progress with this map. It also has a secret I didn't manage to find, if there's another switch there then that's one you clearly don't need to locate if all you want is to get out of there. Using the automap doesn't help a lot here, but I found it to be useful at times.

 

Don't really have much to say about the gameplay. The fights are simple and self-explanatory. Health and cells are not necessarily abundant however, so make sure you avoid getting hit too hard, and be fluent in the language of 2-shotting cybies.

 

Visually this map gets the message across. In spite of the simple geometry there is no doubt that this takes place in a hospital of some sort. It is quite moody in my opinion, and the atmosphere gets somewhat "thick" once you progressed past a certain point in the map. A strong blend of surrealism coupled with the sense of a real location awaits, just don't let Joseph out of his cell...

[SleepyVelvet]

Eternal Slumber Party: Map12 - "Brookhaven Hospital"

Playtime: 2.37 hrs (prb+ cl-1 uv-saves) [edit: forgot fda time, here]

This map was quite the cool map.  After 11 other maps, we finally get a huge swing to another dimension of gameplay, a more exploration/puzzle type of map.

 

 

I got quite a ways in: to the roof and back to Joseph (who i visited in his cell).  It turns out I didn't break the map after all.  When I got stuck, there were only two interactive objects that I missed: 1) the "locker" on Floor 2 that leads to the Patient Wing code without brute forcing it. and 2) a door on Floor 1 that i mistook as the elevator; when i wall-humped every door a second time, i deliberately skipped the one that I thought was the elevator on Floor 1, because of its position on the automap - oops.  It was the door to the Lost Soul, Keens and Cacos.

 

I actually noticed the switch-up between 5 and 8 like Heels pointed out, but it didn't even phase me because I had already brute-forced the Patient Wing code before hand, so this was nothing to me.
The secret switch on the roof triggers invisible crushers for the two Cyberdemons there, but by the time you find it they are probably redundant; the unrelenting crusher sector-motion noises that the switch creates actually added to my confusion, thinking that something might have broken.
There were two moments that actually creeped me out.  The first being the "She is very close" text.  It put me into a state of suspense, but I never really found "her". The second thing that creeped me were those rocket turrets, not the rockets per se, but the unfamiliar noises that they made while doing that; This was a jump-scare that actually drew audible noises from me.  Up to that point, it was a slow and steady pounding of Revenants and Cyberdemons... so your expectations were subverted up to that point.  
This map probably isn't technically the best a horror map could have be done, but it still does the job well.  And we don't see maps like this very often, so it was quite a treat.  The atmosphere was there even though a lot of it was abstract.  I'd like to see a less-jaded doomer play this map, a newbie who is still intimidated by Revenants, Archviles, and Cyberdemons.  Map12 is also a palette cleanser after the last eleven, though even this map manages to squeeze in a small BFG spam fight at the end, just when we thought we were in the clear.

 

A few other things:

-I always like SSG vs Revenant combat in tight spaces in general, which I never got bored of throughout the map.

-I liked how most rooms, despite being separated by teleporters, let you hear into the hall and back; you could often hear a cyberdemon on the other side which is sorta cool.

-The map seemed technically robust, by which i'm talking attention to inescapable pits behind beds, etc.  It was hard to tell at first, but the map will probably not softlock anyone despite having confusing moments.

-Also, I think I humped everything in that hospital except the beds, which is ironic because that's where humping usually takes place.

 

 

Definitely a memorable map.  So far, one of the stand-out maps of ESP.wad.

Edited March 12, 2018 by NoisyVelvet

[Pirx]

On 8/3/2018 at 1:07 AM, rehelekretep said:

the flying 'angry bird' cyber - amazing

 

p.s. i wish i could participate but 1) im really not in the mood to play doom at the moment, and 2) i have no time even if i did feel like playing :(

 

Same here :(

 

But what is with that cyber? On an invisible conveyor belt? 

[Crusader No Regret]

Map 12

 

  NoisyVelvet covered nearly all the talking points I thought about covering which saves me a bunch of typing, yay.  This was quite the compelling map.  My first forays were more about learning the layout and where not to go before being properly armed.  Pick a path, splat.  OK, pick another path.  There's the BFG, crap I need more ammo for it (didn't notice a nearby cell pack).  Next go, find some unguarded cells then pick up BFG.  Having enough ammo to deal with the opposition is a challenge here.  Took a while before I found any health too.  This map, more than any other gave me lots of practice with the two-shot dance.

 

  Map is a recreation of a Silent Hill area.  I've never played a Silent Hill game so the references flew over my head.  "She's nearby" will probably make more sense to someone familiar with the source material, among other things.  I do know just enough so that even though it's a hospital, it's not a nice place when encountered in the source game.

 

Random trivia:

- The blood code has its 2nd and 3rd digits reversed.  The first time I tried it, failure.  Thinking to myself "did I read it wrong?" but not inclined to backtrack, tried this out and got it on the 2nd attempt.  A welcome outcome after brute forcing the Patient Wing code.

- There is an unintuitive way to fight multiple revenants in rooms with no cover.  Got lucky and learned that attacking while on the bed will usually not wake up the rest of the room.  One at a time is so much easier on my health.

- Scouted out the map in the context of killing everything.  Cells are allocated so tightly (until the ending BFG spam) that the player gets two BFG shots per cyber with no extra (not counting cybers positioned to die to crushers).   Ouch.  It's desirable to save a shot or two for the cacodemon room to make life easier.  There is one cyber that may go down in one if it has been softened up enough from infighting that it feels like a big deal to me.  This cell allocation is distinctly ToD; this time the ammo is spread out more so it doesn't appear so hamfisted as other setups.

[Catpho]

Im so falling behind XD

No review today either :((((

[TimeOfDeath666]

I didn't realize the blood code was mixed up, I guess it could be interpreted that crazy Joseph wrote the numbers down wrong. I'll finish some of those old maps one day. Actually, the pink bfg first appeared in em116, but I've used infinite ammo weapons in my maps since the beginning. Haven't played Chip's Challenge in a long time, maybe I will soon. Unfortunately I can't stream because the internet out here in farm country can't handle it.

[Nine Inch Heels]

Castle Lava marks the end of our sudden venture into exploration based maps and pushes us face first into carnage with BFG fueled action. This map is loaded with lots of viles and cybies relative to its size and monster count, so be ready for a little bit of inch-by-inch progression.

 

Unlike other maps in this megawad, this here is leaning a bit more towards one-directional fights at times. Overall, the couple rows of imps early on are almost the only low-tier monsters you're going to come across, it's all revenants or "higher" from there, and the few chaingunner later on barely even register in the bigger scope of things. The first actual obstacle to getting the whole thing started properly is figuring out where the first couple cybies are, otherwise you're likely to get one or several of your orifices stuffed with explosives before you even know what was going on. There's also a Vile waiting to undo your work, so keep that in the back of your head as you carve your way forward. These potentially lethal surprises aside, this map here plays in a very straight forward way, and doesn't overburden players with too much stuff at once. In fact, once the early panic is dealt with, this map starts to play in a rather laid back sort of pace with a little bit of backtracking for ammo or health here and there. As long as you don't rush things you should make steady progress relatively safely here.

 

Visually it's the sort of style we've seen from other maps so far. The sense of location is there due to the geometry, and the texture choices should come as no surprise at this point. Dynamic lighting is not really on the menu here, but we get a throne room and a hidden platforming section instead. I've been missing the platforming a bit lately, so this was nice to have as an appetizer.

 

In the context of maps so far it seems very well placed. Not too frenetic, a little bit of grind, easy enough to understand in terms of progression and fights.

[Catpho]

MAP13 - “Castle Lava”

I dunno if its my current mood, or is it the fact that im salty for not having enough time to play doom(and missing out on the map12 even!), but i found no enjoyment in playing this map. Its very grindy from my feeling, even at the beggining. There was never a moment i was even sorta excited.

Visually, its a cute map, with the structer, the 3d buidings, the castle and insides, really reminds me of a 94 era castle. It lives up to the name too.

To make this sound less edgy, some screenies:

[Nine Inch Heels]

2 hours ago, Catpho said:

Its very grindy from my feeling, even at the beggining.

 

I wasn't too captivated by this either. When I first played the map, I was sort of looking for ways to skip past things in hopes of getting infights going that would last for a bit and take out some of the stuff there. First instinct I had was trying to carve through the mancs during which I ended up between two cybie rockets or something along those lines (All I could really see was that I ate one). Ended up taking the map on a piece by piece basis, after getting rid of the imps, trons, and the first cybie I was left with the barons, and at that point it started feeling "meaty". What added to that impression was that some of the rooms were loaded with viles and/or cybies, so you're sorta stuck in the same place for a good while before you can move on.

[tmorrow]

Map13 was one I thought I might be able to pull off a uvmax for. I was mistaken. The only grindy sections for me were:

• the revenant horde at the top of the stairs with a building in the middle
• the hellknight horde.

I ended up having to repeatedly backtrack for more plasma in these cases.

 

Unfortunately I was not able to handle the room full of archviles that kept finding new ways to ruin my day!

 

Fortunately I've managed to get a few wins with 3 of the maps in the second half of the wad. I look forward to contributing when they come up.

[Magnusblitz]

Fallen way behind too so might as well just chime in on schedule if possible.

 

MAP13: Castle Lava

71% kills, 0/1 secret

 

 

Thought this might be a relatively quicker one at "only" 1500 monsters but it sure is grindy with a lot of meat packed into relatively small areas. The first part is easy-peasy but I reached a dead halt when I came to the revenant swarm at the top of the staircase... BFG just isn't a great weapon to fight them with since to maximize its damage output you need to stay in sight of the monsters, and you don't wanna do that with revenants, much better to have a fire-and-forget weapon like the RL, which is very ammo-limited in this map. So I admittedly IDDQD'd my way through that swarm. Next parts are a bit more fun, since there's a lot of monster intermixing (and a surprise cyber teleport or two) but it's still very much a big hallway with BFG spamming. Only thing that made it interesting was that the cells are often in front of you so you'll either need to be careful with your ammo or risk running ahead to pick up some before returning to safety.

 

After slowly dredging my way through the absolute tedium of the hell knight herd, I found the red key at top the baron pyramid, which lets you leave the level and ignore the last third or so. I IDDQD'd through the last third just to check it out and it just ends with another red key? I can't help but wonder if the keys on this level got misplaced. Never found the yellow key, but there's really no point to it either so...?

 

[rehelekretep]

glboom+ / uv / pistol starts / saves

map12 fda

wow - what a change of pace. beautiful atmosphere enhanced by the midi. i too enjoyed the rev and cyber 'close' combat. i unfortunately have never played Silent Hill so i cant vouch for the recreation but this is one of those one-of-a-kind maps that show the inventiveness in the Doom community. the only bit i didnt like was the rocket-hallway, which just felt a little unfair and annoying. wonderful map.

 

[SleepyVelvet]

1 hour ago, Magnusblitz said:

After slowly dredging my way through the absolute tedium of the hell knight herd, I found the red key at top the baron pyramid, which lets you leave the level and ignore the last third or so. I IDDQD'd through the last third just to check it out and it just ends with another red key? I can't help but wonder if the keys on this level got misplaced. Never found the yellow key, but there's really no point to it either so...?

 

The YK is on the map; no vile jump required or anything.  You just gotta git gud. :P  It actually demonstrates one of the facets of ToD's maps that i like most so far; it makes it all-the-more the interesting to read the recent spurt of threads, which are semi-clashing on a few dimensions, about "modern pwad design" and "lost iwad charm"

[rehelekretep]

glboom+ / uv / pistol starts / saves

map13 fda

i also found this map quite tedious. the castle itself isnt without charm but there is far too much bfg-ball sniping required here, which i find completely unsatisfying. the chief offenders being the multiple staircase cybers, but the chaingunners and the pillar AVs are just as irritating. coupled with clunky sector bridges and a lot of backtracking for cells and armour didnt really leave a pleasant feeling.

[rehelekretep]

3 hours ago, tmorrow said:

Map13 was one I thought I might be able to pull off a uvmax for. I was mistaken. The only grindy sections for me were:

• the revenant horde at the top of the stairs with a building in the middle
• the hellknight horde.

I ended up having to repeatedly backtrack for more plasma in these cases.

 

Unfortunately I was not able to handle the room full of archviles that kept finding new ways to ruin my day!

 

Fortunately I've managed to get a few wins with 3 of the maps in the second half of the wad. I look forward to contributing when they come up.

 

the rev swarm could be blasted through because there are cells along the wall tops and megas in the 4 corners i believe, but that would probably leave a lack for the spider/cyber/caco fight after the YK? gonna go watch ToD's demo :D

[SleepyVelvet]

Eternal Slumber Party: Map13 - "Castle Lava"

Playtime: 56 mins (prb+ cl-1 uv-savescum)

Back to the BFG, though i didn't notice the bfg at first and instead rocketted all the imps in the rocket-launcher cove at the beginning.  The map was kinda hard at a few places though.  I read remarks above about this one being a bit tougher to swallow.  We're almost half-way through, so some of that might just be the fact that we've been through a dozen other maps of similar style; but this one in particular definitely seemed a little tougher for me too.  There's a few flanking ambushes in this one, and while there's lots of cells, it felt more punishing to double back to pick up more.  The megaspheres might be more sparse here too, for the first half at least.  I mean, compared to previous levels, you aren't literally tripping over them as much.  Otherwise, this map is a standard issue Time of Death that we're already familiar with at this point, but maybe more difficult? - it's hard to tell.

 

I didn't actually realize some of this map was optional, and cleared the whole map with the YK without realizing you could leave earlier.

 

 

Eternal Slumber Party: Map14 - "Split Wide Open"

Playtime: 41 mins (prb+ cl-1 uv-savescum)

I started out trying to in-fight everything in the first room, but then found the BFG right at the top platform, easily accessible.  The rest is a BFG spam.  It was smooth-ish with saves, with enough cells to corner grind everything until you reach The Big Bad Fight at the end.  The Big Bad Fight was tough, but I was able to crack it after a dozen tries; it was a bit of a puzzle at first made of distinct monster sub-hordes, but the order and duration you tackle each side-horde affects the difficulty of the encounter.

 

-----
General NoisyVelvet playstyle notes thus far: With some welcome exceptions scattered here and there, a general solution to a lot of ToD scenarios, for me at least, is the BFG Corner Camp: I almost never bother hitting a monster with the green blob anymore, but i simply sweep by the closest structure and use the BFG tracers exclusively to kill monsters.  With proper timing, you only have to pop into the door frame marginally for a few game-tics, and then duck back behind cover.  This reduces a horde's window of firing opportunity to as narrow as possible, and thus you don't have to manage a wave of unmanagable missiles.  Furthermore, in a long hallway setup without corners, you can instead kiss the walls, with your BFG at an angle a near-parallel with the wall.  Goal is to turn the BFG into essentially a Super-Super Shotgun (acronym S-SSG); I never like getting locked into the green-blob's airborne time, but instead synchronize its release for when i'm next to level geometry anyways.  With the exception of front-facing cyberdemon hordes, this seems to be the most effective method for me.

 

Why am I mentioning this? well, it's the technique that got me thus far, and after Map07, I decided to try knocking off Map31 ahead of time... It's not 15th of March for me yet, but i'll just mention that Nostril Caverns is where I really started cutting my teeth on this technique.  And the reason for that is... well you'll see if you aren't there yet.

[Catpho]

"No doom days" are killing me >_<

[Magnusblitz]

20 hours ago, NoisyVelvet said:

The YK is on the map; no vile jump required or anything.  You just gotta git gud. :P  It actually demonstrates one of the facets of ToD's maps that i like most so far; it makes it all-the-more the interesting to read the recent spurt of threads, which are semi-clashing on a few dimensions, about "modern pwad design" and "lost iwad charm"

 

Okay, so the yellow key is on the map (unsurprisingly in the secret I missed) but that doesn't explain 1) why there's two red keys and 2) why the yellow key is there at all since all it does is unlock a door already opened from the other side and a box with a SMM in it? I suppose the latter could be deemed a "secret boss fight" but feels rather pointless given, well, the rest of the map.

[Nine Inch Heels]

Split wide open is the sort of "texture clash" map I have been looking forward to since this whole thing got started. I know a lot of people don't enjoy aesthetics like this, which just bombard your retinae with all kinds of colours, but I love it. I really love it a lot. As much as I appreciate maps like Miasma or basically any map in SunLust, these totally bonkers textured maps somehow provide something which I can't quite put my finger on, but I find it refreshing. Coupled with the "crude" geometry this really qualifies as "special" in its own right, doubly so because the gameplay here is fairly competent albeit a bit too easy in places overall.

 

Speaking of, I liked how the start of the map tricked me into thinking I needed to get the cybie to infight the revs so I could grab the stuff on the ledge, when in fact I could get it right away and make a safe return to the lower floor, provided I didn't move too far and got surrounded, in which case it might hurt a lot right away. There is a noticeable amount of "satisfactory spam" to be had in the roughly 8-12 minutes of playtime, depending on how agressive you are. The only tricky parts around here, sans the opening, involve Archviles and maybe a few cybies, other than that it is straight forward BFG spam on clouds or crowds. Not the most exciting map in this set so far, but it is extremely fast paced compared to "castle lava" and feels more open and less "rigid" all things considered.

 

Progression throughout the map is pretty much straight forward, relatively speaking of course. At least I didn't get lost, which I usually do in maps I haven't seen before, so I suppose it all came together for me quite nicely. Still missing the platforming, I wish there was something of that in this here map. Short little breather with lots of spam, which is just what I need when I think of the map prior and the map that is now to come.

[rehelekretep]

glboom+ / uv / pistol starts / saves

map14 fda

yes! completely agree with @Nine Inch Heels - this feels like a BFG map done correctly, with free-roaming monsters (i dont think theres a single turret monster aside from the first mastermind, which is placed quite nicely to prevent you from moving too freely) and good opportunity to provoke infighting and some cool revenant rocket-swarms :D

i liked the texture clash aesthetic, less so the constant strobe/pulse lighting effect, which did give me some problems and i couldnt imagine trying to max this for an hour or two without some eye fatigue going on.

[rehelekretep]

3 hours ago, Magnusblitz said:

 

Okay, so the yellow key is on the map (unsurprisingly in the secret I missed) but that doesn't explain 1) why there's two red keys and 2) why the yellow key is there at all since all it does is unlock a door already opened from the other side and a box with a SMM in it? I suppose the latter could be deemed a "secret boss fight" but feels rather pointless given, well, the rest of the map.

its a YK for uv-max runs :)

[rehelekretep]

On 13/03/2018 at 11:02 PM, NoisyVelvet said:

The YK is on the map; no vile jump required or anything.  You just gotta git gud. :P  It actually demonstrates one of the facets of ToD's maps that i like most so far; it makes it all-the-more the interesting to read the recent spurt of threads, which are semi-clashing on a few dimensions, about "modern pwad design" and "lost iwad charm"

 

i wanted to come back to this - i was thinking independently how much ToD's maps seems to marry that 'what the fuck is going on, where am i, and what the hell just killed me?' feeling of some of Doom/2's more abstract levels, with the monster counts of some pwad's since then