New details on the Duke Nukem Forever 2001 build

[Redneckerz]

On 5/11/2022 at 8:45 PM, Rudolph said:

Huh, so the games was going to feature aliens after all.

You are surprised that a sequel in a franchise about a man asskicking aliens has.... aliens?

 

Is this a joke on the level of Chris Rock?

 

On 5/11/2022 at 8:26 PM, Rudolph said:

Do you even know what the word "usually" means?

As noted. (After God you are daft)

 

2 hours ago, mrthejoshmon said:

I've been diving into the test maps and the like and there's some genuinely interesting stuff, there's a rendition of the stripclub map that uses horror ambience and has all the dancers actually be aliens, if certain aliens are shot they'll actually disconnect their heads and have it grow legs just like "The Thing".

It might just be me, but i found that UE1 based/Warfare games better lent themselves to interactivity than its successors in practice (Even though you could pull off the same things in those engines) what with  Deus Ex and Postal 2.

 

A lot of what can be done in DNF 2001 looks eerily similar to Postal 2 (To the point where you can piss randomly and everywhere!). Was there a record of 3DR being influenced by The Postal Dude?

[Rudolph]

4 hours ago, mrthejoshmon said:

There's also an NPC test level set on the roof that lets you spawn and fight the Bellowsaur (very basic and buggy unfortunately). When I get home I'll post the mapnames.

You mean this?

 

 

I guess there is the answer to my previous interrogation: the monster was going to be some sort of cross between Doom's Pinky and Half-Life's Bullsquid.

 

Either way, I like the way it looks and moves! Although I am still not a fan of the level design of the "official" maps, I can now totally see the potential of the build and I hope talented modders and mappers out there find a way to make the most out of its assets.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

2 hours ago, Rudolph said:

I can now totally see the potential of the build and I hope talented modders and mappers out there find a way to make the most out of its assets.

To think, if you would have actually played the build (based on a game you never liked to begin with and usually quit after five levels) yourself before filling the thread with every relevant and not-so-relevant thought you have, you might not have had to tell us how much you don't like it. And all it took was a buggy Bellowsaur map to change your mind!

[Nevander]

On 5/11/2022 at 1:49 PM, Frost-Core said:

anybody know this issue

Not sure but two things stick out to me.

Are you running this in Wine?

Why does it say Windows 2000?

[Frost-Core]

8 hours ago, Nevander said:

Not sure but two things stick out to me.

Are you running this in Wine?

Why does it say Windows 2000?

Nah im not running it on wine obviously and its for some reason not knowning what windows version has kernel 6.2 (which is 8.1) but since its old it only probably knows that 2000 is what the devs used.

[lazygecko]

Might sound funny, but I think this build has visually aged better than the final 2011 release. The DNF we got has a very typical "gen 7" look to it. Sure, there are more polygons, but texture fidelity looked like it was generally lagging behind in comparison (probably because it was optimized to look "just good enough" at a distance from a 720p TV display for consoles) and everything has that slightly off-putting plastic sheen to it from the more primitive use of texture materials.

 

The 2001 build, while obviously rough around the edges, had it been polished up into a finished state I think it'd have looked just a step below Half-Life 2 which still looks great.

[ReaperAA]

34 minutes ago, lazygecko said:

Might sound funny, but I think this build has visually aged better than the final 2011 release.

 

I am in same boat. At least in the more developed maps, the 2001 build looks quite aesthetically pleasing to me due to it having more vibrant and less muddy/no bloom filled visuals. It could be my preferential bias towards the early 00's 3D graphics, but the 2001's graphics look more "timeless" to me.

[Gibbon]

On 5/13/2022 at 1:32 PM, Kyle07 said:

Nice seeing the good DNF build from 2001 released. That's what people wanted in the last years.

 

Seeing now, that it does not offer much, does show that the engine swapping was a hell. Well, it was almost never a good idea right? I look at Daikatana for example, but on the other hands games like Gunman Chronicles on the hl1 engine had also some engines swapped.

 

In the end nice to see it released. Maybe the DNF 2013 mod for Duke3D could take some inspiration of the leaked content? It would be nice to see there something.

 

This was the consequence of the late 90's and early 00's when having the best graphics and most modern engine meant you got the most sales.  If they released in say, 2004 using UE1..  many of us today would be like "it still looks awesome" but back then it would have been "UE1?!  How can I make use of my new 3D Accelerator, look at Doom 3, lolz bye".  It would have bombed.

[ENEMY!!!]

Just found this comparison of the 2001 build with the final version that we got in 2011.

 

I'm surprised that so many of the main locations and set pieces remained intact between the two versions.  To me, the 2001 version had potential to be a lot more fun and less watered down, though still containing some of the same flaws as the 2011 version.  The 2011 version just doesn't have as much Duke3D-style charm IMHO. 

 

It would've had to be released before summer 2004 to avoid being compared unfavourably with Doom 3 and Half-Life 2, but I imagine that had it come out in late 2004 or 2005 it still wouldn't have been as negatively received as the 2011 release was.  All of this said, I doubt that it was ever likely to be as positively received as the original Duke3D, either.

Edited May 16, 2022 by ENEMY!!!

[Rudolph]

3 minutes ago, ENEMY!!! said:

All of this said, I doubt that it was ever likely to be as positively received as the original Duke3D, either.

Pretty much. I can see it ending up as divisive as Doom 3, ironically enough.

 

And who knows, maybe just like Doom, Duke Nukem 5 would have had to be a "return to form", like Doom 2016.

[Dark Pulse]

One important thing to keep in mind is that while DNF 2001 is technically UE1, it's one of the more advanced builds of UE1, since it has some things no released UE1 games had (like Static Meshes) that were more associated with UE2 and, AFAIK, never in any of the commercially-released UE1 games. So it's roughly on par with those early Unreal Warfare builds of the engine, if you remember those.

Think of it as roughly UE1.75, with UE1 being the Unreal-derived codebase, and UE1.5 being the UT99-derived codebase.

 

 

[Doom64hunter]

On 5/13/2022 at 3:05 PM, Redneckerz said:

A lot of what can be done in DNF 2001 looks eerily similar to Postal 2 (To the point where you can piss randomly and everywhere!). Was there a record of 3DR being influenced by The Postal Dude?

Postal 2 came out in 2003, and the E3 presentation of that game was in 2002, so I highly doubt it.

The most significant influence in this build is most likely Deus Ex.

[Redneckerz]

3 hours ago, Doom64hunter said:

Postal 2 came out in 2003, and the E3 presentation of that game was in 2002, so I highly doubt it.

The most significant influence in this build is most likely Deus Ex.

I mean the original Postal Dude and the fact that they were (Rougly) in development at the same time, and used the same engine branch.

[BGreener]

7 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

I mean the original Postal Dude and the fact that they were (Rougly) in development at the same time, and used the same engine branch.

Any fun ideas feel like they would’ve had to have come from Postal 2’s development. I don’t recall the original Postal dude doing anything fun besides molotoving that marching band, it was otherwise kind of disturbing with those text scrawls and crawling NPCs. I’ll admit that it’s been awhile, though.

[Biodegradable]

Found a good video exploring the leaked build for all its worth for people like me who are very curious but otherwise much too paranoid to download anything from 4chan and/or too technically inept to get it to run on their computer.

 

 

[Koko Ricky]

The complete lack of prioritizing is both tragic and hilarious. You've got massive sections of multiple maps that are incomplete, but there's a whole system for a functioning pinball game? And how long did that spectacular glass breaking physics take to code? Even the piss stream is impressive. In another timeline, George Brossaurd settled on the Unreal Engine and kept at it until a 2003 release. 

[Nevander]

The saddest part is, at the time, it was all about having the latest tech and having the engine stand out above the other titles being released. Part of the reason it never came out when it was supposed to.

 

But now, the irony is that we LOVE older graphics and the charm that goes along with games like that. The late 90s and 2000s style of graphics that is unmistakable. Since the love for retro returned, or really never left, if 3D Realms stayed together working on it and they didn't finish the game until this year it would have been a huge success.

 

Also, would just like to point out it has now been over 11 years since the official DNF released. Fucks sake.

[SplinkWizard]

Looking through the build and what other people are saying, any idea of rebuilding single player campaign is virtually impossible.  We are talking about building a AAA game consisting of a team of people who just got their hands on a now busted and unstable engine. It would be alot more rational to finish the multiplayer aspect first so we can release something that is complete.

[Rudolph]

32 minutes ago, Koko Ricky said:

The complete lack of prioritizing is both tragic and hilarious. You've got massive sections of multiple maps that are incomplete, but there's a whole system for a functioning pinball game? And how long did that spectacular glass breaking physics take to code? Even the piss stream is impressive. In another timeline, George Brossaurd settled on the Unreal Engine and kept at it until a 2003 release. 

Yeah, I remember being fan of a YouTuber over a decade ago who derided Duke Nukem Forever 2011 as being essentially a collection of Astragon simulator games because of all the (oftentimes mandatory) mini-games.

 

In many ways, Doom 3 really is what Duke Nukem Forever 2001 would have been in more competent hands: you still have one playable mini-game (Super Turkey Puncher 3) as well as then-groundbreaking engine and technological showcases, although Id Software ended up scrapping the drivable vehicles - probably for the best, as Quake IV's vehicle sequences were eminently forgettable.

[Nevander]

13 minutes ago, SplinkWizard said:

Looking through the build and what other people are saying, any idea of rebuilding single player campaign is virtually impossible.  We are talking about building a AAA game consisting of a team of people who just got their hands on a now busted and unstable engine. It would be alot more rational to finish the multiplayer aspect first so we can release something that is complete.

You underestimate the talent of determined community modders. Especially since we have the source code, I believe inevitable is a better word. The only question is time.

[Rudolph]

Could the assets be used in Eduke32 with Polymer?

[mrthejoshmon]

11 hours ago, Nevander said:

You underestimate the talent of determined community modders. Especially since we have the source code, I believe inevitable is a better word. The only question is time.

Passionate people are crazy when it comes to achieving the "impossible", the very existence of this build being patched to work on modern equipment is a ridiculous achievement within itself. It makes me think of the "The Thing" mod for the beta of Half-Life 2, made using unfinished tools for an unfinished engine utilising the then unkown and alien Source engine, released before the actual retail game even did.

 

No doubts in my head that in 4 or 5 years someone will have done something with it.

[Dexiaz]

12 hours ago, SplinkWizard said:

Looking through the build and what other people are saying, any idea of rebuilding single player campaign is virtually impossible.  We are talking about building a AAA game consisting of a team of people who just got their hands on a now busted and unstable engine. It would be alot more rational to finish the multiplayer aspect first so we can release something that is complete.

 

Resident Evil 1.5 says hello, because there are none any official tools for modding RE2 and RE1.5

Still, community finished this game.

 

[Biodegradable]

13 hours ago, Nevander said:

You underestimate the talent of determined community modders. Especially since we have the source code, I believe inevitable is a better word. The only question is time.

 

Yeah, 100% with you on that one, Nev. I don't know if it'll come out of what's left of the Duke3D community or a scrappy team of unknown mavericks, but I definitely would not be surprised if we hear word of a revised, fan-built version of DNF 2001 in a few years time. Only trouble is this source code was leaked rather than released willingly, so I fear any attempt made by a team of people mad enough to do it would be likely shut down via a Cease and Desist letter.

[Spooner5020]

2 hours ago, mrthejoshmon said:

Passionate people are crazy when it comes to achieving the "impossible", the very existence of this build being patched to work on modern equipment is a ridiculous achievement within itself. It makes me think of the "The Thing" mod for the beta of Half-Life 2, made using unfinished tools for an unfinished engine utilising the then unkown and alien Source engine, released before the actual retail game even did.

 

No doubts in my head that in 4 or 5 years someone will have done something with it.

Are there any links to that? I’d love to see it.

[mrthejoshmon]

1 hour ago, Spooner5020 said:

Are there any links to that? I’d love to see it.

Link to it on the HL2beta.ru website

[ReaperAA]

4 hours ago, mrthejoshmon said:

Passionate people are crazy when it comes to achieving the "impossible", the very existence of this build being patched to work on modern equipment is a ridiculous achievement within itself. It makes me think of the "The Thing" mod for the beta of Half-Life 2, made using unfinished tools for an unfinished engine utilising the then unkown and alien Source engine, released before the actual retail game even did.

 

No doubts in my head that in 4 or 5 years someone will have done something with it.

 

In fact there is a discord server for DNF2001 where work on the restoration project is already being done right now. Multiplayer has already gotten some bugfixes and map fixes, and a widescreen hud (albeit with some issues) has been made as well. Work on a renderer (D3D9 I believe) is also in progress.

[lazygecko]

Am I misunderstanding things or was there another, later build with more finished content slated to be released next month?

[ReaperAA]

31 minutes ago, lazygecko said:

Am I misunderstanding things or was there another, later build with more finished content slated to be released next month?

 

No. There is not later build promised. The leaker joked about releasing the 2001 builds on June, but ended up releasing them on the next day.

[ENEMY!!!]

There was a later build from 2002 that was far closer to being complete but there's been no promise of it being leaked as yet.