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Catpho

What did it felt like when you guys started mapping?

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Yeah, I can't even imagine making maps without DB or GZDBuilder. But then again making maps without them makes you concentrate on gameplay more I guess.

Yeah, no, I'd still have to fidget around different elevations and more complex rooms for it to be at least iwad level. Damn, Romero and Petersen had some talent, skill and experience to make maps like that in 6 months, less for Petersen even. I guess those NeXT computers also helped.

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i started mapping maybe a year ago, i wasn't even a part of the forums or anything, i just always wanted to make maps for something. I tried Valve hammer editor but that was way too much work for very underwhelming results, and UnrealEd was a complete jungle. So when i heard that making doom maps is piss easy, i just grabbed doom builder and started. I guess i felt creative? But that went away after a while. Getting into doom mapping isn't hard, you just gotta be sure if you really know what you wanna create. Most of the maps i make are all over the place, since i can't decide on a theme, or can't restrain myself from implementing dumb features that just make it more convoluted. If you wanna make maps just remember this, what makes sense to you, doesn't necessarily make sense to the player. 

Spoiler

Also putting chaingunners on high far away ledges is not good encounter design

 

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2 hours ago, TheGoldenKai said:

 

 

 

That's all I have to say, either way, Doom Map Making has a huge learning curve that I have to follow in order to be part of the "Majority of DOOM Map Making".

 

...I'm going to guess that there are modern crap maps out there, don't wanna be part of them.

Dont pressure yourself, mkay? Everyone is a different mapper :)

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I was pretty underwhelmed at first, because I expected something like today's Doom Builder with 3D view, not just a 2D map editor. Then I was bugged by the horribly unintuitive interface prone to mistakes and how slow it was to map.

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Well, I'm no veteran (far from it, actually), but I guess I can still talk about my experience.

 

I opened SLADE 3's map editor and... didn't know where anything was. So I said "fuck it" and downloaded Doom Builder 2.

 

My main feelings were excitement, curiosity and a bit of frustration.

"So this is a sector, right? Cool!"

"Why are there 3 slots for textures? What the hell?"

"OPEN YOU GODDAMN DOOR"

 

I also experienced a couple of new feelings recently: After using GZDoom Builder for 5 hours straight a notification window popped up, saying something among the lines of "You ran out of memory bud, though luck". It felt like I was about to have a heart attack. I reopened the program, and I was greeted with something like "Everything went to hell last time. Wanna use your backup?" I clicked the option to use the backup and the map loaded. Then I felt relieved.

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No veteran, and no "real" mapper either, but that being said, I did try my luck with Doom Builder back in December, so I figured I might as well share how that little experience went.

 

I loved the friendly interface of DB, despite not knowing a damn thing about it and what all these options do. This was a good sign, because had I felt overwhelmed I would've canned the whole thing right in that moment, no fun in figuring out a million options and eventually do nothing afterwards. Then I found the videos on the website and after watching them I figured I might as well do something with what I've seen and learned there.

 

I managed to create something that actually worked and looked decent, but despite this it couldn't be considered an actual, full fledged map. I was initially planning on learning and practicing more this summer, but given the circumstances that's unlikely to happen. Typical of me, shit, shit, and more shit going on, never having time for what I truly want to do or learn, or sometimes even have the means... damn life I've got...

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Reading these responses.... Now im scared of the fortitude of some of the mappers here :D

I hope some of you guys will eventually map in some form :) If not, well, there are plenty of other ways to contribute to this community!

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It was amazing, it was about having childhood dreams becoming true lol

 

I started with doom builder around 2006, and I had difficult making the first door to open, due to the linedef being at the wrong side lol after that I've never forgot to check this.

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Obligatory "not a veteran" line here.

 

To be honest, I found it... lacking. Like, okay, I could do a lot of shit, and I guess I enjoyed it when I made a 1:1 remake of my high school in Doombuilder 2 for GZDoom, and I really liked it when I translated some of the ideas and concepts I had in my head, but to be honest, I haven't even posted my first map here and now I won't think I will ever. I keep going out of norms, trying to make hyperrealistic stuff, and in the end, I don't even like hellscapes or techbases. I liked the urban maps in Doom 2 but even today I never really liked the hell maps in any form or variation. Just... kinda dumb to me I guess.

 

Spoiler

I KNOW I KNOW I AM DUMB DOOM IS ABOUT KILLING DEMONS IT NEEDS HELL I KNOW SHUDDUP

 

This might be me spoiled by the Goldsource engine. I am just as amazed with Goldsource engine as you are amazed with idTech. So it might not be my forte. But still, what can I say, I liked screwing around with Slade 3 but as long as I keep making hyper-realistic stuff and as long as I deny making and releasing basic abstract mapsets, I don't think I will ever get around being a Doom mapper. What makes me stick around is GZDoom and OpenGL, and all the 3D floor sorcery and similar wizardry :D

 

(I guess this post is a bit of a contrast for all the other cheery comments, sorry about that :D)

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I am a veteran... Which means that, 20 years ago or so when I started mapping, it was a pretty crude process. Exciting, though, and it felt like a better creative outlet than lego or art. I was much more excited to discover ZDoom around 2003 and DoomBuilder in 2005, though, rather than the hardships of DOS command lines, the original engine and DEU. Having a mid-2000s computer was a big boost to my mapping ability as well. The old ways were less intuitive, less reliable, more labour intensive and just generally harder work. I miss the lack of standards and expectations, though. 

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It was one of the most thrilling times in my life; everything was exciting and the possibilities were wide open.   The first three years of Doom editing were this never-ending obsession of ideas, editor work, testing and refinement, and playing other levels.   

 

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3 hours ago, Battle_Korbi said:

hyperrealistic stuff

 

I think you should release some of those maps. Sure, they won't please everyone, but I can guarantee you that some of the people here would like to check them out (I know I do).

 

Not all WADs have to follow the "norm".

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As absurd as it may sound I started out with Doom 3 mapping before Doom 1 because I wasn't able to figure out how to get Doom Builder (the original one) working properly 0_o

 

My first wads were of course terrible. Poorly aligned textures, nonsensical layouts and rooms, zillions of monsters in the same room etc. My level design skills are a million times better now then they were when I started, which I think was sometime in 2006-2007. And the funny thing is, I actually thought my junk at the time was the coolest thing ever simply because I was so blown away by the concept of being able to create my own Doom levels.

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Not a veteran either.

 

As I was creating my first room, I got incredible joy out of it. I would start adding details to it and from there I had countless possibilities.

Generally, I love the feeling when I map and I am proud of my creations. Especially at the beginning, I would wait full of anticipation for that time of the day, when I would continue working on my maps.

But as time passed by, I kept getting more and more bored of the process (playtesting many times wears me out really fast) and right now I might work on my maps once in a week or once in a month and not for more than an hour.

 

While I get some ideas that I can apply in the editor in vanilla, I also have some that would benefit from extra mapping knowledge and (G)ZDoom tricks. I personally look forward to the time when I will be able to make something more advanced, just to finalize those chosen ideas (tried working some of those in vanilla and I was still happy with the pre-pre-pre-alpha results, so I can't imagine what would happen with the advanced techniques).

 

Also, I always have to make everything super polished, which means that my mapping is somewhat slow, as I have to constantly check my maps for points that I don't like.

Add to that my love for organization and perfect symmetry and natural environments (or anything that isn't a tech base for that matter) can get really hard to create (I go for randomness, but it is not pleasing to the eye most of the time, unless I tweak it in a way I see fit). Like, I won't create two identical rooms in a map, but everything will be heavily aligned.

 

Spoiler

I remember playing Robocraft with a friend, because we loved creating bots and using them in deathmatch, but when I would see his vehicles, I would get sick.

Random colors everywhere, random blocks protruding from random places and an overall butchered symmetry!

It was not bad in the eye, BUT I WANTED TO KILL HIM FOR MESSING IT UP WHEN IT WAS SOOOO CLOSE TO BEING GOOD!!! (I actually told him about it once, but he didn't care as much - he just wanted the vehicles to be functional and efficient in combat)

 

Yes, that is obsession on my part, but who cares? 

 

Overall, I think I love mapping, yet it is not one of the first things you will find me doing. At least not in this point in time.

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At first it was great, my childhood dream of making Doom maps came to life 14 years late.

 

Bright eyed and young, I dived into the experience after a long time of watching others creations, filled with hope and Chubzdoomer DoomBuilder tutorial knowledge (big shout out to Chubzdoomer's YouTube tutorials, highly recommend em) I set out to make not a "bad wad" you'd see DeimosComaBlack play (who's actually BarronOfStuff, apparently) but a decent wad with all the features never needed in a map.

 

I was very isolated, young, dumb... I didn't realise what I made was hot garbage but I also didn't care, I was happy with it and I could finally realise my passion and become a great mapper who people actually liked.

 

Fast forward a bit and now I hate everything I ever make, I realise everything I've made is garbage, I realise nobody actually gives a flying fuck and now I'm very saaaaaad.

 

Funny how dreams turn out, perhaps it's better if they just die.

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For years, I had played DooM & its mods, and was content to sit on the sidelines. And then in 1999 I discovered Herian 2. It felt like a switch to my curiosity had been flicked, and my eyes were suddenly opened. With help from Ian Wilson, the author of Herian 2, I jumped in with both feet. All of a sudden, I had the tools and the resources to translate my "vision" into a quasi-reality (as much as DooM permits). I spent every free moment working at a DooM editor, feverishly chasing vertices and linedefs and sectors. You get the idea.

 

DooM-modding is a fuckin' drug.

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My immediate reaction to mapping? For me, it was love at first sidedef. I started mapping in 1996, using Hellmaker on the Mac. It was a crashy app, and it had limits in terms of large, complicated designs, but overall a very nice, easy to use tool. I especially liked the ability to change background colors, so that the map itself was a different color than the empty space. Also cool was the rotatable 3D Isometric Mode. I credit that for the verticality of my old maps. 

 

Once I switched to DB2 and GZDB, things kept getting better. As I've often said, it took me a month to make a 300 sector map in Hellmaker. I can do the same in 3 days with DB2 if I have a good head of steam. It's not the making so much as the polishing/testing that takes a long time.

 

Mapping is still my favorite Doom activity, and although I go through dry spells, I plan to keep doing it for years to come. Whatever people may think of my maps, I know for certain that I'm a far better mapper than player. Just look at my Ironman results. ;D

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I'm not a veteran at mapping but I remember the first time I started mapping and I muttered myself: "what the hell am I supposed to do here?"... My first map I made was "Roman Coliseum" thinking I was making the best map ever created but actually, it was a piece of garbage. 

 

My second map was "The Temple" based off a dream I had about playing new Doom levels, it started well but suddenly I abandoned it due to I ran out of ideas. 

This thread is giving me a feeling that I have to practice again. :)

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Having drawn dungeon maps & little board games for so long, actually getting a Doom editor was like seeing a sweetheart naked for the first time. I was physically vibrating with excitement. For months.

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I only have small experience with Doom mapping at the moment, but here's how I've started.

 

It was back in old Doom Builder days in 2006, I tinkered around with the editor, like changing some sector heights in DOOM.WAD's E3M8 making the player fall far into the area where the Spider Mastermind was, Those were the days. A few years later, although making maps from scratch was a pain due to the lack of the internet (My internet access was lost in 2007-2011 due to being too young or something.)

 

Then came Doom Builder 2, after returning to the interest in Doom mapping, I've made a very small map made after my first map made for Blood while I was playing the game online via Meltdown. It's somewhere in Doomworld's idgames section somewhere gotta find it.

 

The thing I learned from there, is you will start making terrible map at first, then once you get the hang of it, and handle criticism and get advice from the community, you can get more experience in mapping for Doom. ;)

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I've been mapping for eight years, largely on and off, starting in 2010. I probably would have started mapping much, much sooner than that as I had seen a cousin using DeaPsea many years prior to this, but my dad discouraged it thanks to his own experience with one of my uncles struggling to map in the 1990s.

 

I was completely isolated for the majority of the time that I've been mapping, only discovering this forum last year when I was having problems with Doom Builder II. I came across Doomworld while I was searching for solutions to my problem; having found none, thought, "Why not ask these people?". That is one of the best decision I have made. Because of this isolation I'd like to imagine that my mapping style is more reminiscent to the more 'classical' styles, particularly that found in TNT: Evilution, since that is my favourite IWAD. I kind of think that being isolated from the community for that long was probably beneficial for me, as it allowed me to grow and develop on my own until I was competent/mature enough to make decent releases and take criticism.

 

Me and my brother both nosedived straight into the deep end of Doom Builder II, and I honestly wouldn't have had it any other way. I'd watched the tutorials on the Doom Builder website, but was still too young to get a firm grasp on most of the more complex concepts (teleporters took me a while). One of my fondest mapping memories was co-creating a map with my brother and seeing how our mish-mash of structures blended together. While my brother hasn't made nearly as many maps as me, he still has a lot of enthusiasm for the things I make and may still open up the editor himself from time-to-time.

 

I started an overambitious megawad project that contained only the most bullshit of mapping techniques, which I have since abandoned thanks to growing up and realizing that none of it was any good. Regardless of the shit I made in my early days, I'm extremely proud of those maps as they represent a gradual progression from no-idea-what-the-hell-I'm-doing to general competency. I still have every map that me and my brother have made, I may choose to revisit them at some point to see if I can refine them into something less... shit.

 

Even though I've been mapping for eight years, I've so far only released one map (which is for Heretic, ironically enough) and am currently contributing to Nova III, which should hopefully be done soon. I'm hoping to further hone my skills as a mapper through contributing to several Community Projects before moving on to one of the two massive personal projects I currently have on the shelf. Making maps when I've got the motivation and inspiration is an absolute joy, and I hope that finally having people other than me and my brother play those maps will make the process even more enjoyable for me.

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Mapping for DooM is a wonderful surrogate for being an architect.

 

Plus, you won't get prosecuted or sued when the elaborate castle you've created in DooM comes crashing down and kills innocent bystanders. [If there's such a thing as an "innocent bystander" in a DooM map.]

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6 minutes ago, ReX said:

Mapping for DooM is a wonderful surrogate for being an architect.

 

Plus, you won't get prosecuted or sued when the elaborate castle you've created in DooM comes crashing down and kills innocent bystanders. [If there's such a thing as an "innocent bystander" in a DooM map.]

Pls make that map.

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8 minutes ago, Catpho said:

Pls make that map.

Back in 2001 I created a 7-map game where the finale required the player to set some explosive charges to destroy some sort of evil laboratory thingy, and get the heck out of Kansas before the whole thing went "Kablooie!"

 

It wasn't a castle. But does that count? Heh.

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On 3/11/2018 at 4:18 AM, Agent6 said:

[...] and no "real" mapper either, [...]

 

I think if you have made/are making any maps at all, that qualifies you plenty as a "real" mapper

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"What did it felt like when you guys started mapping?"

 

tumblr_m336glqenc1r04pibo1_500.jpg

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