It's Real And It Kills AKA Everything Sucks [Heretic Megawad] [RELEASED]

[Apaul27]

I'm new to testing a wad, but i will test out any way.

[Matthias]

53 minutes ago, Apaul27 said:

I'm new to testing a wad, but i will test out any way.

ok

 I will let you know once it's done :)

[Matthias]

 

[Matthias]

It was released :)

 

Quote

https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/heretic/Ports/iraik

 

[Paar]

I have played five maps of your pack. I must say that this is a weird project. I don't know if I have to take it seriously or not as there are some jokes as inverted screen title or racoon on the intermission screen. The levels themselves are alright. I'm not gonna lie - today standards are higher regarding how much details a map should have. Of course it's only up to you to choose a style of your own. There are just so many angular corridors for my taste. There were times when it looked like a Wolf3D mod rather than modern Doom engine game. I assume that was intentional.

Every level has a distinct theme which is nice. There are interesting moments, like seeing a faraway ship in the first level or a tall green castle in level 4 or 5 (I don't remember exactly which it was). Played on medium difficulty and it was well balanced except for a few occasions (e.g. disciple ambush in the second level). The new music wasn't exactly in a spirit of the original game but songs where okay and relaxing. They set the mood.

 

[Matthias]

9 hours ago, Paar said:

I have played five maps of your pack. I must say that this is a weird project. I don't know if I have to take it seriously or not as there are some jokes as inverted screen title or racoon on the intermission screen. The levels themselves are alright. I'm not gonna lie - today standards are higher regarding how much details a map should have. Of course it's only up to you to choose a style of your own. There are just so many angular corridors for my taste. There were times when it looked like a Wolf3D mod rather than modern Doom engine game. I assume that was intentional.

Every level has a distinct theme which is nice. There are interesting moments, like seeing a faraway ship in the first level or a tall green castle in level 4 or 5 (I don't remember exactly which it was). Played on medium difficulty and it was well balanced except for a few occasions (e.g. disciple ambush in the second level). The new music wasn't exactly in a spirit of the original game but songs where okay and relaxing. They set the mood.

 

 

Thanks for your feedback.

 

Well most things about the wad are explained in the txt. file, like what is the meaning of some things and such.

 

The Title Screen was inverted by mistake in the Slade - i cliked on it and it was upside down and I wanted to change it back, but then I was like "Hey, it looks actually interesting, maybe I should let it be!"

 

The Raccoon's purpose is simple - first I like raccoons and second - the last level take place in the Raccoon Palace.

 

Regarding to details: 

 

It seems that I don't have some sort of talent for the details.

 

People are always like "Ree, there are no details!" so I take the map and add some windows/holes in the walls/columns/ and so on. And people are like "still no details" and I put there even more and more details everywhere and people are like "It's still a complete wolfeinstein 3D" - oohh then I don't know what else should I do :D So I am clearly lacking of making detailed maps. Maybe I suck as a mapper as general, who knows.

 

Also - I have no idea how to make some places more detailed. Like... there is a pier in the harbour - what details should be on the pier? It's just piece of wood. Or there is a warehouse - what details should I put in the warehouse? It's just a building with boxes inside.

 

So as you can see, I really struggle with this one, so I should better stick with 90s style maps.

 

Also I use this guide when adding detailes: https://www.realm667.com/index.php/en/90-articles/tutorials-more/mapping/318-mapping-the-art-of-high-detail and I follow some rules of theirs. Still very wolf3d-like for people.

 

Thanks again for your feedback.

 

M.

[Paar]

Don't get me wrong, I think your map set is fun and I would recommend it. It has certain Minecraft vibe and I liked it. Maybe you could focus on it in the future and make everything square, it could be interesting.

 

About details in a map or rather lack of them... It is more visible when using high resolution source port like GZDoom. I'm sure it's not as visible in let's say Crispy Heretic. I think your maps are detailed enough so I wouldn't worry about it too much. However when developing Doom, John Romero's motto was "if it could be done in Wolf3D, than you're doing it wrong". That's why it's better to avoid angular corridors and make them more zig zaggy. That's the weakest point of your maps, they're often just squares and rectangles. It would help if you at least cut the corners and make them more round. That's my opinion.

[Matthias]

6 minutes ago, Paar said:

Don't get me wrong, I think your map set is fun and I would recommend it. It has certain Minecraft vibe and I liked it. Maybe you could focus on it in the future and make everything square, it could be interesting.

 

About details in a map or rather lack of them... It is more visible when using high resolution source port like GZDoom. I'm sure it's not as visible in let's say Crispy Heretic. I think your maps are detailed enough so I wouldn't worry about it too much. However when developing Doom, John Romero's motto was "if it could be done in Wolf3D, than you're doing it wrong". That's why it's better to avoid angular corridors and make them more zig zaggy. That's the weakest point of your maps, they're often just squares and rectangles. It would help if you at least cut the corners and make them more round. That's my opinion.

 

Okay,

 

I'll will avoid this in my future maps :)

 

If you have some place in my maps you really didn't like, you can report it here and I will think how it make better in the future :)

[Paar]

There is no map I really disliked. I would have to play the pack again to pinpoint specific locations but if I recall correctly the outside area in "The City" struck me as very squarish. Or almost all corridors in the second level.

[Matthias]

46 minutes ago, Paar said:

There is no map I really disliked. I would have to play the pack again to pinpoint specific locations but if I recall correctly the outside area in "The City" struck me as very squarish. Or almost all corridors in the second level.

 

Well "The City" looked very epic and awesome in my head, but what you eventually make is ... slightly different :D

[Paar]

Well, that often happens to me too, an idea that doesn't work as I would like. That's why I usually make a prototype to see if the idea looks good or is even possible in 2.D engine such as Doom. I'm not talking about your level, just generally about my mapping process. I had to ditch several "good ideas" just because they weren't possible unless using true 3D engine. However the motivation is still there because you can make truly beautiful level full of interactivity even with these compromises. One could say that I like the simplicity and challenge a Doom engine provides (be it the original or source port).

 

If I were you I wouldn't change the map pack very much. It is a product of a time. Instead I would focus on a new project, be it only one map, and try to experiment a little. That is if you're interested in making other maps.

 

I will definitely finish the pack this week and give you a feedback on the rest of the levels.

[Cacowad]

On 11/6/2018 at 7:35 AM, Matthias said:

Regarding to details: 

 

It seems that I don't have some sort of talent for the details.

 

People are always like "Ree, there are no details!" so I take the map and add some windows/holes in the walls/columns/ and so on. And people are like "still no details" and I put there even more and more details everywhere and people are like "It's still a complete wolfeinstein 3D" - oohh then I don't know what else should I do :D So I am clearly lacking of making detailed maps. Maybe I suck as a mapper as general, who knows.

 

Also - I have no idea how to make some places more detailed. Like... there is a pier in the harbour - what details should be on the pier? It's just piece of wood. Or there is a warehouse - what details should I put in the warehouse? It's just a building with boxes inside.

 

So as you can see, I really struggle with this one, so I should better stick with 90s style maps.

 

Also I use this guide when adding detailes: https://www.realm667.com/index.php/en/90-articles/tutorials-more/mapping/318-mapping-the-art-of-high-detail and I follow some rules of theirs. Still very wolf3d-like for people.

 

Thanks again for your feedback.

 

M.

 

Imho, your case isn't about lacking details (heck, e1m1 is far more detailed that it has to be), just inexperience. Yes, a warehouse is still a warehouse, but it hasn't to be a 512x512 square as it could be irl: maybe it has a part that has broken into another space, maybe the crates are all over the place, maybe it is two story tall with some sort of surveilance tower somewhere that unite the structure around it.

Also height variation is key: use it, abuse it; stairs and elevators help break the landscape continuityand mantain things interesting without need of "details". Your e1m1 nails this aspect, with stairs and elevators everywhere, while e1m2 fall (literally) flat in comparison being a bunch of corridors sewn toghether (the circularity of the map is pretty good tbh).

I noticed  howhever how the quality of the maps improved each passing map, it is not a "It's still a complete wolfeinstein 3D" (that's completely false, well maybe just a couple of maps really suffer from this), so try not to worry as much.

 

Also allow the old me a little rant: i personally loathe tormentor's style of detailing, i find it an exercize of style over substance. The guide isn't bad per se, some advices are pretty good, but the "add random stuff until you can't anymore" kind of detail is disgusting. /rant off

 

Now, back on track: here's a pack with some demos, all pistol start, all hmp difficulty, mostly fda, all recorded with zdoom 2.8.1.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ZKbxDBwJx7Osz-Jwp0BFY63N3dWOTmsr

 

I tryied to write down something in chat during the gameplay, i can't remember if zdoom demos actually record that.

[Matthias]

18 hours ago, Cacowad said:

 

Imho, your case isn't about lacking details (heck, e1m1 is far more detailed that it has to be), just inexperience. Yes, a warehouse is still a warehouse, but it hasn't to be a 512x512 square as it could be irl: maybe it has a part that has broken into another space, maybe the crates are all over the place, maybe it is two story tall with some sort of surveilance tower somewhere that unite the structure around it.

Also height variation is key: use it, abuse it; stairs and elevators help break the landscape continuityand mantain things interesting without need of "details". Your e1m1 nails this aspect, with stairs and elevators everywhere, while e1m2 fall (literally) flat in comparison being a bunch of corridors sewn toghether (the circularity of the map is pretty good tbh).

I noticed  howhever how the quality of the maps improved each passing map, it is not a "It's still a complete wolfeinstein 3D" (that's completely false, well maybe just a couple of maps really suffer from this), so try not to worry as much.

 

Also allow the old me a little rant: i personally loathe tormentor's style of detailing, i find it an exercize of style over substance. The guide isn't bad per se, some advices are pretty good, but the "add random stuff until you can't anymore" kind of detail is disgusting. /rant off

 

Now, back on track: here's a pack with some demos, all pistol start, all hmp difficulty, mostly fda, all recorded with zdoom 2.8.1.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ZKbxDBwJx7Osz-Jwp0BFY63N3dWOTmsr

 

I tryied to write down something in chat during the gameplay, i can't remember if zdoom demos actually record that.

 

Ok, thanks for your feedback. I downloaded and launched the first demo... :) First level looked smooths even though you play very differently than me. Haven't seen the chat yet, but I've seen it in the demos before so I assume it will work :)

 

If I am "inexperienced" than it's a real failure for me, because I'v been making maps for 10 years now actually :D

Hope you enjoyed the wad :)

[Cacowad]

 

14 hours ago, Matthias said:

If I am "inexperienced" than it's a real failure for me, because I'v been making maps for 10 years now actually :D

Welp, then that was a blunder on my part! the wad was enjoiable for sure, pretty tame compared to others i played in the past (but that's also because i played on hmp). Hope you'll find usefull even the other demos!

[Matthias]

14 hours ago, Cacowad said:

 

Welp, then that was a blunder on my part! the wad was enjoiable for sure, pretty tame compared to others i played in the past (but that's also because i played on hmp). Hope you'll find usefull even the other demos!

 

Just watched the demo for Map03

 

strange... One door are half opened for some reason :/

 

How did this happened

[Matthias]

I've seen the rest

 

The MAP04 was really funny - how you were invisible and ambushed by the Iron Liches, so you try to hit the exit button, but then they noticed you :D 

 

Anyway I noticed lots of mistakes, which is horrible while I betatested it so many times and also the others :(

 

I wonder it the file on idgames archives can be updated

[Cacowad]

That's what demos are for! I'm pretty sure you can update a wad on idgames.