Classic Doom I/II Maps vs. Fan Maps

[princetontiger]

Hey all,

 

Have you guys ever noticed that there is a "certain" feel that the original maps from id Software have?

 

It's tough to describe, but there is a difference between Alien Vendetta and D2 Reloaded and the original Doom 2 game.

 

There's a certain level of perfection in the original maps that drew me to the game... Are there any wads that remind you of the original map creators?

[xvertigox]

You can have a look at the Doom The Way ID Did series.

[Pegleg]

35 minutes ago, princetontiger said:

There's a certain level of perfection in the original maps that drew me to the game...

I wonder how long it will take for this particular statement to lead to a firestorm (or multiple multiple firestorms).

 

I'm thinking the main arguments will be over whether Sandy Petersen's levels are really the worst maps ever made and whether E2M2 is indeed the pinnacle of level design.

[StevenC21]

I love all the IWAD maps. They are great. Sandy is great. They're all great. I love E4, I love Plutonia MAP32, and you guys can fight me for it.

[Capellan]

45 minutes ago, Pegleg said:

I'm thinking the main arguments will be over whether Sandy Petersen's levels are really the worst maps ever made.

 

I'm not a fan of Sandy's levels, but anyone who says they are the worst maps ever made has obviously never waded through a shovelware CD. :)

 

[NaturalTvventy]

DOOM.WAD and DOOM2.WAD are a cut above any pwad I’ve ever played.

[Lorenz0]

I feel like the iwad maps are kinda garbage compared to most highly regarded pwads that come out nowadays.

[Deadwing]

Mostly original levels are really good, imo. Some others, especially from Doom 2, not much. The good ones are what makes doom such a fun experience, though, and few pwads were able to provide same experience.

[baja blast rd.]

My opinions:

 

- I think Sandy Petersen's maps are the best in Doom 2 and the ones that hold up best.

- I think modern mapping could learn still a lot from maps like Refueling Base, Suburbs, and Monster Condo (from pistol start), because a fairly low percentage of non-slaughter, non-challenge maps released afterwards have more interesting gameplay than the best Doom 2 maps. Modern maps of similar (or even substantially higher) difficulty can often be too "fair" and handholding and rote in a lot of ways, thus unexciting. So it's a bit naive to think "haha those were simpler times, now we know better" . . . because practice shows otherwise. 

 

- Modern design is certainly more sophisticated, but again there are lessons to be had from Doom 2: namely, how variety in a map's texture set makes specific areas more memorable. Modern maps tend to be a homogeneous blur of "good", whereas Doom 2 maps are often motleys of "crude", but still a motley is more memorable than a blur! The most skilled designers can unite the best of both: make motleys of good. 

[GarrettChan]

Comparing old maps in IWADs with PWADS nowadays it not really fair in my opinion. It's sort of like that back in the day, Plutonia can say those maps are hard, but now, it seems easy enough. (Wait, only Ultimate Doom/D2? Never mind...)

 

Romero's maps are sort of like creations under certain rules. Nothing is too good and nothing is too bad, probably except the final part of D2 Map17. Thus, Romero's maps sometimes feel boring to me. McGee's maps are usually short and compact, but the color could be a little bit dull, like D2 Map14 even though I like that map quite a lot.

 

Sandy's maps are always special on the other hand. I would say probably Sandy has the most important influence in mapping. Usually his maps will result in quite different opinions. For example, I really feel E2M2 is boring while a lot of people think E2M2 is the best map in Ultimate Doom. Some other maps that have very different views on could be D2 Map09 and Map24.

[princetontiger]

Very interesting. Thank you for your thoughts. The original stock maps hold up well, even today.

[RedemptionDenied]

nobody mentioned the "progression" in themes throughout the maps

also the mystery of not knowing whats going on vs. "yeah thats a fan/man-made wad, he put this here and this there - cool" at least thats what I feel quite often..

 

most importantly that all of us should have played through the original series first meaning "yeah back in the day everything was better"

it was just earlier but first experiences stick to ones mind and therefore become the very benchmark

[Skeletonpatch]

22 hours ago, StevenC21 said:

I love all the IWAD maps. They are great. Sandy is great. They're all great. I love E4, I love Plutonia MAP32, and you guys can fight me for it.

 

I love them all as well! I love every single map in the official IWADs.

 

Hell, I even love Mount--

 

*Ducks under desk as a brick shatters the window*