Doom 3 = Bad?

Though it has become apperent that all of us doomers are getting hyped up that id will make another doom game, we are overlooking just what they would be doing to us as a community. Its a well known fact that some of us doomers can't run much on our computers asid doom its self, so a Q3 engine is totally out of the question. The ones that could play it would be unimpressed then by all the things we as a community have done. Look at us, we've just come out with cs doom which is the coolest thing since f-kin pornogrophy. We love it because a community made it happen and not some software complany thats profiting off of it. With doom 3, who would care about an engine modification on an outdated game? All i'm trying to get at here is what doom really stands for here in this community. Its not just a game at this point, its an expanding world of ideas. We take what we have been given and make it do so much more than it was origionally intended to do. We have source ports, thousands of add-ons, internet play, and T.C.'s that would knock your socks off. So if id releases this new game they call Doom 3, what will it stand for to us? Will it take on the same form as the origional did, or just be another one of id's games?

I'd say it's a pretty good editorial. It's not a no-win situation, though. Bringing back the classic gameplay of DOOM probably wouldn't be a bad thing. I noticed he couldn't spell "Shawn Green" correctly. What's that about? :-b

Even if the game DOES suck (which I don't think it will, but I'm also looking through pixelated glasses), we as a community can make DooM 3 ANYTHING WE WANT TO. That's why there are mods. :)

If someone wants more story, they can make it! If they want more gore, they can make that, too. If they want just pure killing and no story, they can have that, as well. I believe that it is a win-win situation for everyone.

Just releasing an updated DooM is a great big "thank you, id compatriots!" in and of itself, IMHO. When they release the game, we can make it anything we want it to be. Of course, there will be those that will still remain old school, but that's just fine. I for one would love to see DooM with textures in more than a proprietary 256-color format. :)

Whatever the outcome, DooM 3 is a landmark for the DooM community, and the gaming community as a whole. We wanted a new DooM, and dammit, id listened.

My respect for id just shot up 15 notches. Know why? They LISTEN to what we want! They were working on something else, but they scrapped it in favor of DooM!

And for all those bitching about "they should have done something new"... Well, they will make something new (hopefully) after the updated DooM, so keep your shirt on. Stop being such a baby and let us have the game we want.

LONG LIVE DOOM!!!

Uh, that attitude is EXACTLY what id Software knows and depends on to sell their shitty Quake games. Let's quit letting them be slack as hell...let's force them to make some decent games out of the box for crying out loud.

"We wanted a new DooM, and dammit, id listened" It took them 5 years to listen? : ) I think they're out to make a buck, and they know the name "DooM" will fill their pockets. Also, if a game sucks to begin with, I don't think anyone would bother making mods for it... Don't get me wrong, I'm as excited about this as anyone, but as an 'old-school' member of the community, I'm going to totally agree with SkaDoomer here.

...id Software's getting greedy. I'm sick of seeing them get rich off shitty games (Quake 3, etc.) and I'm even more sick of seeing people saying "it's okay, if we don't like it, then we'll get the mod community to finish it." You know how much of your $$$ that that mod community is going to get? None. You know who deserves the money? The people that finish the game.

id Software in it's current state...disgusts me.

I can't believe gamespy.com let that dude post such dribble. Hello! Anyone in there! 1) Would id want to make DOOM again? Answer: No. It is already made. 2) Has ANY of id's releases (back to Wolf3d) been anything short of a groundbreaking engine, industry-leading gameplay/graphics/engine/user-adaptability/etc, or even set the bar to which even FPS games are judged? I didn't think so. The heart of id's success is JC; and there is absolutely no reason to doubt him or id to make the best game of 2001. People might even stop playing any game called Quake. And don't think for an instant that Q3A isn't the most advanced game ever made. If you expect DooM, you'll be disappointed. If you expect the best game of 2001 or quake4; you'll be convinced you got your money's worth that first free weekend.

What's wrong with Quake 1/2/3 out of the box? Or even Doom for that matter?

While I admit that Carmack is an incredible coder, it isn't the engine that made DooM such a great game. If it were, we'd all be dedicated to Q2 or Q3A(for you DMers). What made DooM great was a combination of level design and gameplay. Romero was the one who hooked each of us on DooM with Episode One, five years ago... Dagger...If you're sick of id getting rich from games like Q3A, don't pay for them. Warez exists for a reason... :-)

The writer of the offending article is described on Gamespy as an "opinionated bastard" and those who disagree with him as "wrong". What a guy.

Sorry guys, that last one was mine...

I can understand why some can say it'll suck and why some say it wont. I'll just see what they come up with

I believe what shaithis says makes sense. I never looked at it that way. The BOYS at id are just that. A trip down memory lane for all these BOYS is what is needed. Cause what I am saying is that without Doom there would be no id software. And without id software there would be no John, Adrian, Kevin, Sandy, Tim, etc. They seem to have forgotten where they came from.

ChrisB a.k.a. 'shaithis' is a cool guy (you should do your homework.) Opinionated bastard he is, but then again gamespy put him in his place for exactly that reason. All his points are very valid too. Afterglow 'n' me are probably the only doomers who like him/his work heh.

Well, I agree with that article, especially with the part about millions of people setting their expectations too high.

Did it not feel to you like Quake 3 was...ahem...missing some content? Quake 2 was also rushed out the door...you had to download the DM maps after the fact. Well, Quake 1 wasn't too bad for its time I supposed. But hell, the mod community should be what makes a great game even better...but its job is certainly NOT to finish an unfinished game.

Well whatever. If you want a truly finished Quake 3, it's gonna cost you another $30, when the release the mission pack.

The question of whether ID can redo it isn't as uncertain as you (and him) make it sound. No game has really tried to do what doom has tried to do. Most try to fool you into dying, while doom tries to outpower you. Think of how few games actually have more than 10 (let alone more than 20!) enemies in a room. How many had enemies that respawn on easy? (map30 in doomII) Anyway, the level design isn't the ultimate thing you hail it as, and if it is, there's no reason why they couldn't just license some levels made by the old team (from their respective companies) right? Always remember, no team is an island and nobody can be a one man army (just to confuse you)if you can understand this, you can understand why doom has a pretty damn good chance.

Who in the fucking hell said it? Let me get him! Hey U at gamespy! Come suck my BFG and say it again! I hope DOOM 3 will be good. I dont care who creates it. LONG LIVE DOOM! I'm with U!

Thanks for the polite response. I wasn't saying Hello?!?! to you. -- I definitely agree that q2 and q3 are rough OOB, but certainly still the best FPS games available. q2, they really could care less about the single-player; which was a shame. Q3A is quite finished; but the ui is VERY lacking. Doom3 will be their first complete sp game since Quake. I, personally, am very optimistic about it.

The real reason Doom 3 will suck is it's based on the opposite reasons Doom was built upon. Back then the graphics sucked so game play was king, now all it is, is a race to get the best eyecandy. The team doesn't even wanna do it(if you read the first plan file it said that JC had to motive the employees or something) Hire some of the freaking community and John Romero and get back to what the game meant. Doom was about 50 enemies in a room no jumpiness, if you throw 50 quake 1 models in a room you get lag and they are less then half of the poly count of Quake 3 models.

Depending on the motives behind making the game (well, profit is always the motive, but there are secondary ones too), it could definitely live up to the original Doom games. My question is, can it live up to the hype? And my answer is, no. Sorry, but we're going to expect way, way too much from it. That's why I'm being so pessimistic--if I think it's going to suck, I'll be really happy if I find out otherwise! And if it does suck, at least I get to say "told you so." Either way I win!

Where is this idea coming from that the team doesn't want to do Doom 3?? It's because the team wanted to do it so much that JC thought is was important enough to put the company through an unpleasant fight over it. It was Adrian that hated the idea so much. JC said there was almost a palpable thrill when the idea of a Doom 3 was mentioned. What are you talking about?! Bahh. :-b

I still fully believe in my last post. Even if id IS counting on us going, "well, the game sucks, but I'll buy it because it says DooM on the box," they're gonna sell a shitload of copies, and I'll be one of the first to buy one. Why? Well, for one, it's a new DooM with everything redone (prolly).

In some ways, it's a lot like Episode 1. After spending YEARS constantly watching New Hope, Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi, we were all eager for a new Star Wars. But, when we actually saw it, it was filled with nothing but CG, an annoying "golly, I'm cute" kid, and Jar Jar. But, to this day, the ones who openly said they hate it still watch it. They've even purchased it and watch it frequently. Why? because it's STAR WARS. It's a legacy. Something you just love but don't really know why. A tie to childhood (for those around or older than me). You don't really care if it sucks. You'll watch it just because it says STAR WARS on the box.

My point still holds true with DooM. Although I honestly believe that it won't be like Episode 1 in the suck factor, I do at the same time hope that they will really take their time with this game, think things out, and really plan. Who knows? They may even, just this once, get all the old guys back until the project is finished! You never know with id! Carmack's June 1st .plan speaks for itself, dudn't it?

So stop being so cynical and let them create their game. You can be as critical as you want to when they release it. But (and I suppose this goes for me, as well :D), we'll just have to wait and see how the final product looks before we make any judgement calls on its quality.

Gamespy is full of shit!! They have no clue on what the game looks like nor do they know whats its going to be like, atleast wait til they actually see a Screenshot from it when they get the new engine up and Ill promise you they'll stfu. I in fact do not want the original remade and shit.. I want something new and something spectacular. Not the fucken originals remade I mean c'mon, anyways ID can do it. All the sp games are the most popular =).

Episode 1 was something like a very long computer/RPG game commercial. And maybe the new DOOM will be like a movie trailer in its own way. I mean, who won't expect a DOOM movie after it's released? Hope the movie doesn't suck like the novels did (ugh!). DOOM is awsome! (I mean doom(2).exe, the new one's just a promise and an enigma - though we can try to guess if we wnat). Hmm... actually, the editorial ain't bad. Be critical, the community is not a house of worship.

The success of Doom was ALL about feel/tech. Think about the huge open courtyards of Doom2, and the exquisite "thump" of the shotgun. I agree with shaithis. I think recreating something that blows people away THAT much will be nearly impossible. I mean, for many people, Doom was their first FPS, deathmatch, scary game experience. Our expectations are much higher now.

It could just be me, but I think since John Romero left id, id changed a whole lot. Personally I loved most of Softdisk's (the old id)games and id's Doom, Doom ][ and Quake 1. For some reason I geniunly enjoy Quake 1. But when John Romero left the games that followed like Quake 2 and so on was rather disappointing. It has nothing to do with frame rates and eyecandy, I just find the gameplay rather lacking and I know a lot will disagree with me on this one, but for me Q1's dmatch was much more fun and satisfying than Q2's. It's just a theory, but even with all his apparant problems, maybe Romero was a vital part in making Id software a legend. Maybe it was that entire old team, but good old friends working on a project can work out much better than those with professional relationships. Ion storm is having trouble with their games, but the old id team could be compared to fingers of a hand. Individually they _might_ be weak, but together they can form a mighty fist.

"...the old id team could be compared to fingers of a hand. Individually they _might_ be weak, but together they can form a mighty fist."

Niiiiiiice... :)

Quake was more satisfying for three major reasons: one, Romero made some of the greatest Military levels of his career there (even comparable to the Knee Deep in Death's): E1M1, E2M1, and E3M1. two, the Quake marine was as fast as the Doom marine (whereas the Quake2/3 (wo)man runs like a wounded turtle). three, Quake1's keyboard controls worked pretty much like the keyboard controls of Doom, whereas Quake2's keyboard control s.u.c.k.s. Summary: GET ROMERO WORKING ON DOOM3 !!! :)

Quake was more satisfying for three major reasons: one, Romero made some of the greatest Military levels of his career there (even comparable to the Knee Deep in Death's): E1M1, E2M1, and E3M1. two, the Quake marine was as fast as the Doom marine (whereas the Quake2/3 (wo)man runs like a wounded turtle). three, Quake1's keyboard controls worked pretty mu