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    Doom 3: Possibly The Greatest Idea Ever


    Linguica

    Well, maybe not ever, but it makes a nice title. In response to Gamespy's article decrying Doom 3 as the worst possible direction id Software could take with their next game, I've written up an article entitled Doom 3: Possibly The Greatest Idea Ever. It offers a direct response, breaking down the opinions in the Gamespy article and offering counterpoints. Even if you haven't read the article that I'm rebutting, it's still worth a read. Go on over.

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    Guest [DIH]Grunt

    Posted

    KISS: Psycho Circus put DOOM in shame?? ya righ DOOM will own every game!!! and it still does tell this day! DOOM 3!!!! oh ya good job Linguica, and im still waiting for the new DoomWord look :)

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    Contrasting the present and future versions of DOOM is rather dumb I think. The present FPS scene (molded by popular use and current technology) does not support what DOOM stands for because it stands for itself: lack of "realistic" details and complications; which, alternatively, are a must for any game that wants to sell nowadays. DOOM has formed a base, which has been "surpassed" technically (the newer engines can mimick reality more precisely), DOOM's base is unchallenged (because no-one makes games like it anymore), while all the games that come after fit together in competing with each other and becoming more complex (especially in how they are made, but also played). You cannot compare DOOM, the king of simplicity, with games that are bound to be replaced with the next technological improvement (new games are wholly dependent on this). DOOM plays incredibly (it lacks any features that detract from shooting your opponents - and what does FPS stand for?) and is made (now) every day by its players. Other games are made by profesionals, and have a slower (or more precisely, more distracted) gameplay. All this is technically and economically verifiable. So, the more you try to mimic reality, the more you rely on external illusions. But if you represent no more than what's required, your imagination runs free... DOOM!

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    Guest Confusion

    Posted

    Nice article Ling. Not too pleased about the title though...never mind.

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    Guest Anonymous User

    Posted

    your all bollocks confuzion is dead and myk shits har har pissss >:yhdfgjhdfgjdftsdfhdsfhdfjhdfgjdfgj)

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    Guest Confusion

    Posted

    Fuck you Louis. I'm sure Myk says the same.

    By the way, has anyone else noticed that thing up near the logo? Where it normally displays a little DOOM monster - I just came here and saw what looked like a cross between a cacodemon, a pumpkin, and the Devil. WTF is it supposed to be?

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    Guest Wyvern

    Posted

    That was probably [url="http://www.doomworld.com/pictures/hissy.jpg" target="_blank"]Hissy[/url]. :)

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    Guest Confusion

    Posted

    Thanks, Wyvern...but I still don't know what Hissy is.

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    Guest Wyvern

    Posted

    I guess Hissy is the DooM equivalent of a beanie baby!

    Heh... They reminds me of the cartoon I saw on PVP that had "id's Beanie Quakies" on it... Talk about SERIOUSLY f'd. :)

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    Guest Wyvern

    Posted

    They=That

    That was a Freudian Jeff K. slip, there. Ugh.

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    Guest 3dfiles

    Posted

    Doom 3: Possibly The Greatest Idea Ever If You Own A Doom Domain Then the article should read how your website now has new life injected back in it. (Good for you though, really!!!) Come on, I laughed when I read this. It goes to show what I have thought for years. Id is out of ideas and we need to look elsewhere for the next great idea. People like the Duke idea because it had a silly story, a personality and chicks! Dont forget that at E3 they hadnt even decided what to do yet. Somehow, 3-4 weeks later they got a plan? Come on, they are taking advantage of the Columbine hype. If they were not, then they could tell us everything they were going to do with the new Doom, but they dont even know yet. Hey, it would be nice if it made a kickass game, but like Quake 3, it will probably be more of the same. I hope they do well, but I will remain pessimistic until I see it :)

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    Guest Anonymous User

    Posted

    "Id's games have never been ugly." LOL ever heard of Quake? -Capt.

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    Guest Anonymous User

    Posted

    Quake3's engine is able to pull more than 10 times the ammount of polygons for Levels that Quake2 could, without going through much of a slowdown in relation to Q2, if detail is lowered. This is a LOT of extra power after two years. Now, think how it will be in two more years. I'm not saying that it will be ten times more powerfull again, but it could happen. So pulling 50 monsters on screen at once is very possible, and the maps.. wohoo, i cant wait. Id didn't go to much into the dark grimmy atmosphere of doom in Q3, but think of what can be done with new stuff like volumetric fog, curves and whatever else. So, Doom3 = Quake3 engine on steroids + Doom gameplay on steroids (well, that's not so sure). I really dont think that ID will let us down in that department either. I mean,, they REALLY want to do this, so they prolly have some reasons to make DOOM and not anything else. I think we'll see what made doom great yet again. - DiSTuRBeD

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    Guest Anonymous User

    Posted

    Id it´s one of the best industries of videogames and in marketing the news abaout bas ideas, discussions in ID all of this it´s a plan of marketing to make people SHOUT for DOOM3, even the article of gamespy it´s a little fire to start polemic and ID wants people desires the game, for my part don´t need this I WANT DOOM3 NOW. Congratulations for ID not only for his games, they have PURE and POSSIBLY THE BEST marketing. Excuse my English for now it´s not to cute ;)

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    Guest scar3crow

    Posted

    Quake was ugly ? Look back at any game and it looks ugly to you. Tis true. Doom looks ugly to me. But it didnt back then. Quake looks ugly to me. But it didnt back then. Quake2 looks ugly to me. But it didnt when it was released. In my opinion if graphics is the price to pay for great gameplay then ill happily let that go. And Tim Willits and Paul Jacquays ? heh...theyve created some of the most disappointing levels ive ever seen. Ive done better in my non released maps (cuz im ashamed of em). But at least they got Christian Antkow who is a jack of all trades so to speak. Doom3 is gonna be great or its gonna be horrible. But i do NOT think id is the place to look forward to for the next big thing anymore (that became evident to me after i played through Q2, and even moreso with the announcement of Q3) Im looking to places like Nihlistic and Legend. HumanHead studios. Raven software. No dynasty last forever people. And usually they die of self destruction. I just hope they dont take down the Doom name with them....

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    Guest Anonymous User

    Posted

    Point one: you talked about id's level designers like Christian Antkow, Tim Willits, etc. Their level design in Quake II and III wasn't very impressive. What makes you think they are suddenly going to rock our worlds in Doom 3? I think the Gamespy article has a very valid point here that all of the original designers are gone, leaving a collective hole. Graeme Devine I am sure is a very nice guy, but what has he done that is similar to a Doom game? Zip, nada, zilch. Point 2: I can't remember what it was now, so I'll assume you had a valid rebuttal. Point 3: You really evaded the issue altogether. In fact, it sounded like you pretty much agreed with the Gamespy article here. Doom's legacy is unmatched. Doom 3 is already incredibly hyped and it just got announced. Now we'll have to deal with Doom 3 previews for the next 2-3 years. There is absolutely no way id can top our expectations. A lot of people have mentioned Star Wars: TPM. While I hesitate to compare Doom to the original Star Wars movies, I think Doom 3 will be a letdown no matter what id does.

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    Guest SJ Zero

    Posted

    Excuse me...Columbine hype? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH LOL OH SHIT! THAT'S GOOD! Fraggin' hiarious! Why would some shooting in some hick town somewhere I can't even remember that happened over a YEAR ago have any friggin' effect on what people buy?! You gotta be a pretty big dumbass to say 'oh geez! Here is doom! Wow! what pretty pictures! I wanna be like my heroes in Colombine and kill my classmates too!' it hurts my ribs just thinking of some moron that buys a game not because it is good, but because some kid that went crazy played it's prequel! Seriously tho, games are getting pretty impressive now, and honestly, I can say that doom 3 wouldn't be that hard to do well. think of UT. Now, use intels scaling architecture to make those with 2 Ghz processors look like your there and those on 486 s3 virge powered dream machines look like the original and you can put as many monsters in a room as you want to. I hope the new doom is still simple. The game was fraggin' hard even without jumping to worry about! I just think everybody should try to stop being so jaded. The latest games ARE good, and the latest software technologies WILL be used! Id knows that most doom players have pentiums, just as they knew that quake players would have the latest and greatest (don't quote me on that, but the interwave realizm was a hella expensive card) later

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    Guest Daggah

    Posted

    I swear dude, at least go back to grammar school if you're gonna flood Doomworld and Shugashack with your low-iq posts.

    And the 'rebuttal' itself is pretty weak...I expected considerably more from Linguica. Let's look at it, point by point.

    "id Software now has a dedicated game designer." Yeah, well he's a moron. Look at Quake 3, home of many of the stupidest ideas I have ever seen in a game.

    "Adrian Carmack and Kevin Cloud have only honed their skills during the past seven years" and don't even want to have anything to do with this title. Smart guys. Kenneth Scott's okay as a skinner...his skins are what makes Paul "I'm an ass" Steed's models look good in the first place.

    "Id's development team in 1993, while talented, was basically creating a new genre which none of them had much of an idea how to work in. Nowadays, id has a team of people who have been in the field for years, and has seen what works and what does not." Looking at Quake 3, they've obviously decided that they enjoy using what does NOT work. I have yet to be impressed by any id Software game since DOOM II, and even that sucked when you looked at the original levels. Like so many other id Software games, even the virtues of DOOM and DOOM II aren't truly apparent until you play some quality addon levels.

    I'll avoid refuting the first part of point 2...that's simple opinion, and even though I disagree with it, it's not worth refuting.

    "Engine technology is finally reaching the point again where the "horde" mentality is possible." Yeah, sure, if you want the monsters to look like blocky pieces of crap. You've also gotta realize that the AI has to work its way in there somewhere...of course, with id Software's track record, maybe they should just skimp on this, because their AI is never worth the performance hit (case in point: Q3's bots).

    "However, that is no reason for id to shy away from the task." I just wish they'd pass this legacy over to a QUALITY COMPANY, because id Software no longer has the talent required to do this thing justice.

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    Can you PLEASE stop being one of these stuck-up people who think that just because THEY think something, everyone else should as well. Could you possibly explain to me why Q3 is one the top three most played games in the world at the moment if it sucks so much. Yes, it's multi-player only, get over it. And for everyone saying that the level design and textures/skins/models in Q3 is crap, you must be blind.

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    Quake 1 was a pretty good game, and I have the full version. Quake 2 was a completely different game. I downloaded the demo, played it, and it never went past that. Quake 3, I have absolutely no interest in. I've never played it, or seen anyone else play it for that matter. As for a new look for Doomworld, I don't think it's such a bad idea. Put some DOOM textures in there, as well as some sprites, decor.. Well, whatever works. :-b

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    Guest Neonwolf1

    Posted

    about time they decide to make doom 3. man i was woring when will they make it. doom is the game i play more than q3, Plus i have doom web page too, so when doom3 comes out I'll start making TC's for that. because unreal sux. doom 3 will kill 3d shooters that not made by ID software. DOOM RULES!!!!!!!!!!!! thats the bottom line cause neonwolf1 said's so, if you don't like it deal with it.

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    Guest Daggah

    Posted

    Aren't you doing the same thing when you say that the levels/models/textures/skins/etc AREN'T crap? Come back when you're not a hypocrite.

    I find the level design, gameplay, models, textures, and skins to ALL be crap. That's my opinion. So bugger off and go rip some more textures off of Ola or something.

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    Guest Slade

    Posted

    Carmack pretty much admitted that they havent even gotten to any of the design elements of the new Doom game. The fact they know they need to bring in more people to work on Doom 3. If anyone can take the FPS genre to the next level it's id. They have someone now who is competent in game design, Graeme Devine has done some very innovative stuff. So what if he hasnt done FPS stuff, tom hall and Sandy Petersen arent doing fps's. A good game is a good game. I think the problem is people are looking at stuff through rose colored glasses. Quake did some very innovative stuff. I think it paved the way for game like Everquest that are only played online. Oh and as for Doomworld being revitalized because of this announcment, there has been no shortage of doom fanatice or doom development. If anything it will introduce more people to the original.

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    I didn't say that they weren't crap, I said that you must be blind if you thought they were, learn to read.

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    Guest Rhoq

    Posted

    The next Doom WILL be a great game. I have faith in Id. They wouldn't take on the project unless they intended to do an awesome job on it. You all know that. I hate to see the Doom community itself squabbling about another Doom.

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    ...you seem to have trouble distinguishing your opinion from fact.

    "id Software now has a dedicated game designer." Yeah, well he's a moron. Look at Quake 3, home of many of the stupidest ideas I have ever seen in a game.

    Stupidest ideas such as making a pure deathmatch experience with no frills or gimmicks? I don't like Quake 3 because I enjoy frills and gimmicks, but I can understand that Quake 3 is exactly what it meant to be, and is almost certainly the best pure-deathmatch game ever. Any design decision Graeme Devine made for Quake 3 were to accomplish the goal of making it a refined and distilled deathmatch experience -- something which you don't like, so obviously Graeme Devine must be an idiot.

    "Adrian Carmack and Kevin Cloud have only honed their skills during the past seven years" and don't even want to have anything to do with this title. Smart guys.

    They didn't want to do Doom 3 for their next game... that doesn't mean they're not going to produce good stuff for it. Do you really think that everyone at id has always been enthusiastic about whatever direction the company takes with their next game? Just because you don't agree with the idea for a game doesn't mean you can't make good art for it.

    Kenneth Scott's okay as a skinner...his skins are what makes Paul "I'm an ass" Steed's models look good in the first place.

    And this refutes what point exactly? If Kenneth Scott's skins made Paul Steed's models look good then it would seem to follow that he is good at what he does.

    "Id's development team in 1993, while talented, was basically creating a new genre which none of them had much of an idea how to work in. Nowadays, id has a team of people who have been in the field for years, and has seen what works and what does not." Looking at Quake 3, they've obviously decided that they enjoy using what does NOT work.

    Once again you are confused. Just because you do not like something does not make it bad. I do not enjoy James Joyce but that does not mean that everything he writes is stupid.

    I have yet to be impressed by any id Software game since DOOM II, and even that sucked when you looked at the original levels.

    So you were impressed by Doom 2 despite the fact that its levels sucked?

    Like so many other id Software games, even the virtues of DOOM and DOOM II aren't truly apparent until you play some quality addon levels.

    Do you even understand everything you are saying? You appear to be saying that "like so many other id Software games," Doom/Doom 2 are pretty average games on their own, but they are made kickass by the efforts of third-party level designers. Then WTF is so bad about id's other games, or is so great about Doom/Doom2?

    I'll avoid refuting the first part of point 2...that's simple opinion, and even though I disagree with it, it's not worth refuting.

    First part of point 2... is that the part where I state multiple KNOWN FACTS and draw conclusions from those facts?


    "Engine technology is finally reaching the point again where the "horde" mentality is possible." Yeah, sure, if you want the monsters to look like blocky pieces of crap.

    Have you even heard of the Lithtech 2 engine? Have you seen KISS: Psycho Circus in action? There are tons of enemies onscreen at once and they certainly do not look like blocky pieces of crap. Carmack will almost certainly code a similar feature into his new engine.

    You've also gotta realize that the AI has to work its way in there somewhere...of course, with id Software's track record, maybe they should just skimp on this, because their AI is never worth the performance hit (case in point: Q3's bots).

    What's your point? That Doom 3 should have simplistic AI? Alright, sounds fine to me, as long as I am occupied by other things, such as having fun.

    "However, that is no reason for id to shy away from the task." I just wish they'd pass this legacy over to a QUALITY COMPANY, because id Software no longer has the talent required to do this thing justice.

    What company do you want to see do Doom 3 then?

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