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    Legacy Frads


    Arioch
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    Teach them how to use it:)

    There are 3 ways to modify the MAPxx lump though. The 2 you list and DeePsea. DeePsea directly "imports" a text file into any level name.

    Press F7 and "Save Lump File to Current Level". The documentation accidently listed Eternity as the port that can use this feature instead of Legacy. Will fix.

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    I think this type of site will help out those new mappers we haven't heard from yet :)...Doom needs more mappers.

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    Hey,
    Remember DoomHQ? Well I typed in www.doomhq.com and found an interesting surprise...Heh...Check it out!

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    Guest deathwarrior

    Posted

    mmm... webcam porn. just my type of surprise.

    btw, you're about 2 months quick.

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    Hmm, I think I learned most of fragglescript last night. Just have to wait for an idea to pop up. Then I will do some kind of level for legacy

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    I've been working on a site like that for about 6 months. Thankfully only one person decided to help so I've been doing it all myself. [/sarcasm] The site is here:

    http://www.teamdeim.com/der/index.html

    I would REALLY appreciate any help. Once it gets to a decent size I'll maybe set it up under it's own domain or something.

    P.S. Thanks to Rick Clark for the EDGE tutorial.

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    Its got stuff for old mappers like me too, Thanks Ebola. Thanks to Rellik too. You two guys seem to know more about Legacy than the rest of us put together.

    I assume you are both beta testers/friends of the Legacy team.

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    Can one of you give me the URL for Som's web site, Ive lost it and need to get another copy of that Legacy wad he released a few weeks back (the one with the Quake textures and a big room with lots of crates)

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    Hmm. I couldn't find much of anything on that page rellik. BTW. I advice against using that technique of making 3d elevators as is explained on your site. We tried that in Ni'mrod and it's just not working.. If anything get's in below the 3d lift and the lift hits it on the way down, the lift will get skrewed up and if the mapper used a little pit for the lift block to go down in, the object below the lift causing the bug, will be trapped. (This being most of the time YOU ;) I would advice using FS to script the lift. However making a perfectly working lift is extremely complicated if you're not too deep into FS scripting (wich I am not). Although, making a simple lift. (wich will still cause basicly the same error), in FS is very easy. The advantage of this is that this way to make the lift will cause it to reset each time it goes up/down.

    example:
    script 0
    {
    movefloor(tag, toheight, speed);
    moveceil(tag, toheight, speed);
    wait(100);
    movefloor(tag, toheight, speed);
    moveceil(tag, toheight, speed);
    }

    (speed: 1 is slowest and the bigger number the faster movement)

    I could add the script that is used in map01 of nimrod here for reviewing.. But I think that could be considered flooding ;)

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    C'mon Ebola, your the guy on the inside, the guy with the power. Get the Legacy guys to make some new linedefs for us! We shouldn't have to use script for simple stuff like that. I know they got loads of other stuff on their plate right now, but the mappers REALLY want this stuff. It would only take little while to code this stuff in permanently. Please? Hurdler? Anybody? Seriously, if Legacy wants to stand toe to toe with ZDOOM this is the kind of stuff Legacy will have to have. Tell him to add new sector types for colormaps and I'll even supply all the colormaps anyone would EVER need. We need new linetypes, we need to tag effects to 3D floors (conveyors, damage, etc) and we need the return of multiple player1 starts for mechanical effects, and we need new things that emit varying light levels and colors. Make it easy to map and the mappers will flock to you.

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    Actually SoM told me that he was gonna try to do something like a group trigger thing that will do what you just asked for.. But personally I think there's alot more important things to do in Legacy thatn that.

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    Umm, Eternity DOES put MapInfo and FraggleScript into the map header, just like Legacy, so please do not remove my port name from your documentation. SoM took the MapInfo system from SMMU, so its more or less exactly the same.

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    Because call me crazy but isn't it easier to make a line type XXX and tag it to a sector? Cmon, if legacy wants to attract mappers, it'll have to start giving us something to work with. If I have to learn a scripting language, I might as well just edit real 3D. I mean really, a bunch of scripting just for that? That's rediculous. If legacy thinks mappers will learn this crap just to make a bloody elevator they're seriously on glue. Make it easy for us and we'll flock to your engine. Ignore us and well...

    *downloads ZDOOM...

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    Im with Rellik on this one, Fraggle script is doing my head in just now. I want more linedef types. They are easy to use and my editor (DETH) can already handle them.

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    After years of hoping for scripting, now there's a sudden current against it. I really don't know whether I should find it humorous or insulting; I'm leaning more toward the latter right now.

    People do not understand that its much better to have a slightly more complex scripting system that is flexible and can do just about anything than it is to have a static set of inflexible linedef effects. There are some things that lines are never going to be able to do, folks.

    I will look into adding some new line types to Eternity if it will make you people happy, but be warned I'm not going beyond what is done reasonably. If you expect a linetype that can kill a particular thing on the map, you're not going to get it, because with FS that is VERY easy to do already:

    script 1
    {
    kill(mobjfortid(1));
    }

    This is how you will be able to do it using Eternity's ExtraData -- all it does is retrieve the map object that has TID 1 and kills it. Simple. Expecting these kinds of functionality from lines when it can already be done that easily is unreasonable.

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    Quasar I'm not trying to piss you off. I'm just saying what everyone else does, really. I'm not saying scrap the scripting, I'm just saying that it doesn't have to come at the expense of new linetypes. Why can't we have both? Here's what I and most all other mappers want:

    Linedefs:
    -3D elevators (up and down, kill whats underneath)
    -3D lifts (down wait up stay and reverse)
    -Split doors (top half up, bottom half down fast or slow)
    -2 more different levels of translucent 3D blocks (more translucent)
    -1 line that turns light level up to lightest neighbor, on next activation turns it down to lowest neighbor

    Sector types:
    -colormaps basic colors, and fademap versions of them
    -instant death
    -no gravity
    -reverse gravity (you never know)
    -4 times power jump (jump pads)
    -make swimmable sectors without the triggers linedef texture being displayed (for simpler 3D ladders)

    Well that's all I got, but that's not very much considering the huge number of hours it would save mappers. Give us this and Legacy will own. That's 9 new lines and 14 or so new sectors. Is that really so much to ask?

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    Legacy already got 2 ways of doing new sector colormaps/fog/shiznit , using linedefs.. How many more do you need?

    Most of that sounds really easy, but it's not. It's better to just script it.

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    Because tagging to sectors to color them when they already have other tags for 3d floors / water / lifts means I have to have 40 bloody sectors and tags to accomplish something.

    Look I give up. I know that none of this will ever happen so I'll stop wasting my breath.

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    Now I'm confused. You say you want more lindeftriggers. but when I tell you some of them already exist you talk rubbish about it requiring 40 sectors .. Well it have to use sector references if you don't wanna script.. Wich I thought were your point. that you wanted to do everything in editor needing to create referring sectors to create a simple lift. Instead of just making a script. (BTW, you don't need a special sector to make colored light , just a fucking linedef.)

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    >> 3D elevators (up and down, kill whats underneath)
    >> 3D lifts (down wait up stay and reverse)

    I agree that Legacy should probably have linedefs to support its 3D sectors, but since part of the problem with that is its limitation to the DOOM map format. If I'm able to get Legacy to add ExtraData, which is a very simple text script that you add to a level to specify new data fields, then it should become possible to add some of the data for 3D sectors to lines.

    >> Split doors (top half up, bottom half down fast or slow)

    This should be possible using pillars from the Hexen code, which I intend to add to Eternity.

    >> 2 more different levels of translucent 3D blocks (more translucent)

    Not sure what you mean here.

    >> 1 line that turns light level up to lightest neighbor, on next activation turns it down to lowest neighbor

    This is an example of something that should be very simple to script; although I don't think its currently possible in FS due to lack of iterator functions that look for lowest/highest neighbors, etc. I've been meaning to add functions for those purposes though.

    >> colormaps basic colors, and fademap versions of them

    Like Ebola said there's ways of doing this already, although in BOOM ports you need precalculated colormaps. I don't think that's a bad idea though -- calculating them at run time is slow.

    >> instant death

    I will probably make an instant death TerrainType once ExtraData allows overriding TerrainTypes for individual sectors.

    >> no gravity / reverse gravity

    This is difficult to do for various reasons, it would require changing a lot of code. Eternity can already change the gravity globally for a level, though.

    >> 4 times power jump (jump pads)

    Not a bad idea here, once I add jumping.

    >> make swimmable sectors without the triggers linedef texture being displayed (for simpler 3D ladders)

    Dunno anything about swimmable sectors, although I've thought about looking into them. I know you're talking mostly about what you want in Legacy but I think a lot of these things will be good in Eternity too.

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