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    Ling's Ideas, 8/99


    Linguica

    I figured that this would be as good of a time as any to post this... last August I wrote up and sent an email to Graeme Devine, designer for id Software, that detailed my wishes if id were to make a Doom2000. Now that they've announced that they're making a new Doom game, I figure I should post it so you all can see my ideas. Post your reactions and your own ideas here if you want.

    I think of myself as being in a better position that most to give suggestions on where to go with a new Doom game. I have played Doom and Doom 2 since the summer of 1994 -- almost exactly five years now -- and for the last year and a half I've run Doomworld, the premiere Doom website on the internet. My site has introduced Doom to a new generation of gamers and reminded an older one of days gone by -- a few have even returned to the fold, drawn in once again by Doom source ports featuring sophisticated scripting, colored lighting, true 3D, OpenGL acceleration, and much more.

    But my past experience isn't what would make my ideas worth consideration, of course; it's what my ideas consist of.

    Ever since the original Doom came out, id's games haven't been known for their enthralling single-player modes. Both Quake and Quake 2 have achieved vastly more popularity as a multiplayer game than one where you traipse through halls and kill monsters. Quake 3's lack of a traditional single-player mode altogether only solidifies this claim.

    However, more recent games such as last year's Half-Life and the just-released System Shock 2 have shown that the single-player FPS is nowhere near facing extinction and, in fact, can make for just as intense and involving of an experience as any multiplayer blood orgy could possibly hope.

    If id Software decides to make their next project another chapter in the Doom series, the emphasis would undoubtedly have to be swung back over to the single-player aspect of the game. Doom and Doom 2 achieved immense and unparalleled popularity based mainly on the strengths of its single-player game: while Doom deathmatch and co-op were great fun, the Internet was barely even a factor to consider and games could only really be played over a LAN or IPX network.

    The question, then, is how to create, in today's marketplace, a single-player experience which is just as engrossing and enthralling as the original Doom was 5 years ago.

    The competition is much more intense. Games like the previously mentioned Half-Life and System Shock 2 have in-game cutscenes, scenarios, and objectives which make them more like an interactive movie. The original Doom was nowhere near as complex: find a monster. Kill it. Repeat.

    My vision for the ideal Doom2000 is, therefore, the following.

    ***

    THE CONCEPT

    id Software cannot be considered one of the more "design-oriented" gaming companies out there. Ever since Tom Hall first wrote the Doom Design Document in 1992, id has had a tendency to throw such documents out the window. Doom and Doom 2 collected mostly-unrelated levels together and slapped on a storyline which often didn't explain a levels' archietcture. Quake was a game designer's nightmare; originally supposed to be a game where the hero wields a hammer and faces only a handful or monsters per level, it slowly mutated through an Aztec-inspired period (still evident in level names like "Ziggurat Vertigo") and eventually ended up as a mixture of medieval-gothic and future-industrial levels with an even thinner plot than that for Doom. id solidified somewhat with the plot of Quake II, which followed a marine through his attack against the forces of Stroggos, aided by mission objectives and cutscenes. Quake 3 appears to be another swing towards a loosely defined plot which gives the makers much leeway in what they can create.

    Single-player games nowadays, on the other hand, are extremely design-oriented. Half-Life has a very well-defined plot and everything makes sense in the context of the game world. System Shock 2 is full of discarded personal logs and e-mails which slowly congeal into an intricate plot as the game progresses. If id Software wants to make a game which was even better then these single-player masterpieces, there will have to be a definite plan going into the project which can not be deviated from without ruining the integrity of the game. id also has shown that they very seldom will stick to such a plan.

    In other words, Doom2000 in all probability cannot be "better" than a game like Half-Life, because in order to succeed it would have to be very different from a game like Half-Life.

    id Software's strength in creating a new single-player game is their ability to create raw, visceral action, rather than intriguing plots or objectives. Blinding speed and lightning-fast gameplay is what would make Doom2000 a great game -- it's not only what Doom originally was, but it's what id Software knows how to do.

    THE PLOT

    id has never been one to develop much of a plot in their games, and Doom2000 is no place to start. In fact, D2K would be better off to steal the original Doom plot: a space marine is trapped on Phobos along with vast hordes of demonic monsters. He makes his way through the base and into a dimensional portal, ending up on Deimos, which is floating above the surface of Hell itself. After conquering Deimos the space marine rappels down to challenge the legions of Hell on their own turf.

    THE LEVELS

    D2K would follow the "3-episode" structure of the original commercial Doom; the first taking place on Phobos, the second on Deimos, and the final episode in Hell. The first episode would be predominantly high-tech: a distant moon base with all the futuristic refinements. The second episode on Deimos would be a little more lax; while it would be another space outpost, it would have been taken under control by the hellspawn with noticable effects. The third episode would be, well, Hellish -- lots of fire and brimstone, full of "hot" colors like orange and red.

    The progression of the levels would emulate those in Doom. You would start on level 1, proceeding to level 2, and so on. Each level could be broken up into sub-levels to reduce loading time or increase size, if necessary, but each level would have a distinct start and endpoint.

    Once again, as in Doom, Doom2000 would take a cue regarding between-level statistics. The player would be shown the percentage of enemies killed, items grabbed, and secrets discovered, as well as the time taken to complete the level.

    Between episodes, a short cutscene would be shown to advance the plot as much as necessary.

    THE ENGINE

    The Doom2000 engine would probably be a tweaked Quake 3 engine, but possibly might be John Carmack's next-generation engine, built from the ground up to take full advantage of ever-evolving hardware. Everything found in Quake 3 would be present, and additional features may include more realistic physics, bumpmapping, and realistically cast shadows.

    Another aspect in which the engine would be enhanced is in its handling of models. The Doom2000 engine would use level-of-detail technology to modify the amount of polygons used by enemies in view, thus enabling the engine to handle upwards of 50 enemies onscreen at once.

    Tipping their hat to the work of the thousands of Doomers who created their own levels for Doom and Doom 2, id Software would ship Doom2000 with a program which would convert .WAD files into the format used by Doom2000's levels. This process would turn any properly-constructed level for Doom or Doom 2 into a level fully playable within Doom2000, preserving the original textures (which would be included in a special PAK file with the game), monsters (which would be replaced by their Doom2000 counterparts), and lighting (the engine would be capable of displaying arbitrary light levels in certain areas, just as in the original Doom engine). This move would give id an instantaneous base of thousands of add-on levels even on the first day of release, as well as disproving naysayers who would complain that Doom2000 could never retain the gameplay and action that characterized the original game.

    THE GAMEPLAY

    Fast and furious. The player's movement speed would be increased to match that of the original space marine, and enemies would be as fast and deadly as ever. With the Doom2000 engine allowing for hundreds of monsters on any level, the game would often revolve around battling giant hordes of relatively weak monsters, rather than fighting one or two strong monsters. The emphasis would not be on sneaking and cunning, but rather on near-constant fighting.

    THE ENEMIES

    Every monster found in Doom 2 would appear in Doom2000, all given the 3D treatment. A handful of new enemies would be introduced, including several new mid-level monsters and a new end-boss which would put the Cyberdemon to shame.

    All monsters would sport loads of new animations. Monsters would be able to walk, run, strafe, and backstep just like the player. They could look around, sniff scents, and jerk their heads in reaction to loud noises. Monsters hunting you down would appear more cautious and alert than those caught off-guard. Monsters would also all have numerous pain and death animations, expecially the weaker and more often-used ones.

    Additionally. every monster would use sound as a tactic to unnerve the player. The former humans would utter low moans and call out to the player when they were searching for him. Demons and Lost Souls would have a wide variety of snorts and growls as they roamed. The archvile would be brimming in Satanic energy and would utter obscure Latin phrases in an unearthly voice. Hell would be filled with the moans and screams of the tortured dead who had been banished there.

    THE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE

    The levels of intelligence of the monsters would differ dramatically, from the nearly brain-dead Troopers to the nerfarious and cunning Archviles. The smarter monsters would be able to dodge and hide, but generally would not run away and call for reinforcements -- after all, this is a purely action game.

    THE WEAPONS

    Most, if not all, of the original Doom/Doom 2 weapons would make a reappearance, from the chainsaw to the BFG. Again, a handful of new weapons would be introduced to keep the action lively.

    The weapon animations would be very detailed and distinct. For instance, the super-shotgun would be cracked open with a flick of the wrist. Wisps of blue smoke would curl from the edges of the dual barrels, and the empty shells would be pulled out and dropped, clinking on the ground. The player would take two new shells and shove them into the vacated chamber, and then would whip the whip the barrel upwards, closing the chambers with a satisfying thunk.

    THE INTERFACE

    The interface would be carefully constructed to reflect the nature of Doom2000, rather than being added on without much thought or care. The format would remain the same: a basic menu would offer a few options which would then be elaborated upon in further sub-menus. However, the interface would be more visually appealing than simply pressing enter and watching the new screen appear. Letters and graphics would slide onscreen from all directions, sometime scaling and spinning. During level intermissions, the numbers counting the percentage of enemies killed would slam down as if flying into place from behind your head. The interface would be fast-paced, loud, and exciting to watch -- just like the game itself.

    ***

    There is much more that I could say about my hopers for Doom2000, but I feel that I've covered most of the basic points. I hope you take my suggestions into consideration. If you like any ideas or have any questions, please let me know.

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    Guest [DIH]Grunt

    Posted

    every one spells Doom 2 like this Doom ][ heres the Doom 3, Doom ]|[

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    Guest Anonymous User

    Posted

    I'd like to get a sense of what other people think made doom good. Was it the fast fluid movement of the character? Was it the cool atmosphere? Was it the monsters? Was it the weapons? What was good about doom and what wasn't. Is a setting in apocolyptic earth the kind of atmosphere we want for the next doom? Isn't the undefinable atmoshpere of DOOM 1 what made doom so great? Would a flame thrower fit the feel of DOOM? Would scarier looking monsters lend to a better feel and atmosphere? I really liked what wyvern wrote - because it was an expansion on the original - which I believe is where the story should stem from. Again - what firebrandt said seems to me the best route to take for the story - that'll really keep the doom spirit alive. I don't know about y'all, but this realy bodes well for me. I also 100% agree with what XMark said - although I don't think the music should be too heavy. I don't know why citrus claims to know that DOOM2000 won't be like doom 2 - "...there is almost a palpable excitement among the employees.." - sounds like they're pretty reminiscent of the original - this doesn't sound like they're going to be making a new game altogether - "It's time for a new game in a new generation of technology and gaming. The market has matured, and so has peoples tastes to a certain extent." - Didn't realize doom tailored to imature tastes. I have no idea what this actually means. Although I agree with what he says about less arcady - and a more in depth experience. I suppose that' what he was referring to when he said this - in which case, valid point. I very much agree with the comment about the gore - no triangles please that were in MDK and many other games - the way former humans melted and flew against a wall when a barrel blew up near them - this *MUST* be retained in doom2000 in some form or another. - stats screen after every episode rather than level - very good idea. I 100% agree with Confusion - back to what makes doom so great. No incorporating half life elements. Very good points by Myk - he has the right idea. Dark Youth's plot line - not doom enough - the UNKOWN as myk pointed out - is a very good observation of one of the aspects that made doom so good. Again, no affiliation with any other game but doom - for story and gameplay. As Teppic said. I have to agree - the fiend would go awesome in DOOM! - be the Demon's big brother - definately would work. Many ppl have a common thread: no slow one on one fights that are apparent in newer FPS - I most agree with this sentiment. Stauf7 - 100% on! I'm glad the majority know whats up! I should have read all these posts before making mine about the importance of atmoshpere - panopticon understands where I was coming from it doesn't have to be the same - as long as it has elements and captures the mood - oh and the word I couldn't think of where I used coolness - was novelty :) One thing I want to stress - I think the new doom, if it's going to be modeled after the original, should be modeled after doom 1, NOT doom 2. and as far as the plot - i'm torn as to whether it should be left out or not - an argument can be made for both. People - please reply with what you agree with and what you don't - so we can see where the majority of us stand - although I think it's pretty clear already :).

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    Guest Anonymous User

    Posted

    id needs to read these comments and shed light on what they are going to do when they have a rough idea of they're going to do. Do you think id would be interested in seeing these comments, ling?

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    The weapons, the monsters, and the fluid movability of the marine. The sounds were also great, and so were the levels and the music. Heck, it's just a well-balanced game. :-b

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    The weapons, the monsters, and the fluid movability of the marine. The sounds were also great, and so were the levels and the music. Heck, it's just a well-balanced game. :-b

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    Well I sent this exact news post to Graeme Devine over at id and got no response, so either he was so bowled over he couldn't speak, so underwhelmed he ignored it, or so buried in work he couldn't make time to reply. You decide.

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    Guest Kokistos

    Posted

    This is exactly what I was thinking a while back. Same basic game, done in modern graphics, sound, and AI. Don't make the enemies <I>too</I> bright, though, or you can't mow down a field of 36 imps..... I want both smart and dumb enemies. I definitely think they should use the Doom 1 storyline, but they should refine it somewhat. They should also add more to the beginning and end. Start off on Mars, not Phobos. Drag out the Gateway scene between the first two episodes. And don't make the "final enemy" the final enemy--you have to kill it and then fight some normal ol' guys on your way out, too. I mentioned backward WAD compatibility on the NEW DOOM GAME thread. That is absolutely a neccessity. I want to take that one step further--make it compatible with the original IWADs, if you have them! Play Doom and Doom 2 in the glorious DOOM2K atmosphere! I don't suppose id would want to support levels for Doom source ports..... maybe that's asking a bit too much. I'm sort of caught on what to do about sprite patches, too. As for internet play, I want the standard co-op, deathmatch (no deathmatch-only levels, please), and--Persistent World mode. Yes, that's what I said. If Soul Reaver-esque streaming technology is used, servers can be set up with entire worlds full of players who can ally and battle as they see fit. Actually, this might be way slow..... 34 players on-screen at once may be a problem. Well, maybe it can be set up so only the server needs to be ultra-fast for this to work. Then we end up with about 12 PWs on a few mainframes. Feel free to criticize me, but be polite about it. Okay? Okay!

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    Guest Rtoast

    Posted

    Well, in response, I dont think that peoples ideas here are unrealistic. Technology is moving forward in a fast pace, and fields of 50 monsters on screen is exactly what DooM was all about. Complete mow down. I understand that that is a lot of polys to render, but they are just going to have to figure out how to do that, or else it wont feel like DooM if your not slaughtering by the dozens. And besides, the system you mention as being needed to run something like that is probably going to be the norm by the time this game actually comes out anyway. . .

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    Guest LordUnum

    Posted

    Shumunu kuku lulu.... <Fire engulfs you>

    Na... Latin's better. :-)

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    Guest LordUnum

    Posted

    Kokistos and a few others have hit the nail right on the head: Some monsters in the game should definitely have some high intelligence, esp. Arch-Viles (if in fact, in some incarnation ,they do make an appearance). Ducking, speeding up, slowing down, avoiding fire to revive a nearby creature. Any sort of "zombified" creature should have a mentality on par of the typical Doom enemy: follow you until you or it dies. Everything else, somewhere inbetween there, I guess. And a variation in strength, size, or power between creature of a single type is not necessary (some refer to it as creating "species"), although at least 3 or 4 different skins per creature, more among lesser creatures, would be nice IMHO.

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    Guest Wyvern

    Posted

    There are a lot of mixed comments and opinions on this board, and I appreciate both Confusions's and that one anon user's "What made doom great?"

    Sure, the original DooM was all about fast, furious gaming action with just a twist of story, but it also had LOTS of mood. Things to make you angry, like all the satanic references (those just spurred me to hate the bastards even more), things to disgust you (all the corpses mutilated in different ways), etc. BUT, DooM, IMO, should also have a more cinematic experience to it. Half-Life was all about plot and mood, but it still had moments of fast-paced action. Sure, they weren't there all the time like in DooM, but I think that adding a "living movie" feel in addition to the fast-paced action of the original DooM would literally blow anything else away. We owe it to DooM to make it better than anything out there. I mean, come on; it's the father of the FPS (Wolf3D is the granddaddy :D)!

    I honestly don't think that a more cinematic experience would kill the feeling at all. I mean, I personally liked Hell Factory hub 1. Except for a little grammar now and then, it rocked ass! Nice changes to the geography and full of mood and atmosphere.

    I know that story really isn't what DooM was all about, but I think it will make the game richer in value and longetivity if a deep one is added.

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    I was thinking of a story along the lines of Doom2:Hell on Earth but with a twist.... Instead of the Demons comming to us in a typical invasion scenario, how about an attempt by the forces of hell to bring the entire earth to them! Consider this: A gigantic gate appears in Earth's orbital path. This gate is maintained by strange satellites with some kind of shielding that is impenatrable by any weapon that Earth's military has. If the gate cannot be destroyed in 666 hours the planet Earth will be sucked into the realm of hell, and all will be lost. The mission of the game will be to send forces through the gate, into hell itself and take down the satellite's shield generator from the inside. Note: this setup will make it possible to actually LOSE the game if you fail to shut the satellite shield generator down before the time limit expires! Sound dumb? Maybe, but I just pulled that idea out of my ass :)

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    Guest Anonymous User

    Posted

    Kinda stupid, but I think it could help D2K if the episodes acted like hubs, you could go to/from any level you wanted to, episode exit would open but you wouldn't be forced to leave. Also, if there's gonna be Phobos/Deimos stuff in it, since Deimos has been kinda corrupted by Hell, you could show Arch-Viles melting parts of different levels, with zombies dragging in hellish architecture (or Archies blasting them into the existing architecture.. heh) as a cut-scene between Phobos and Deimos, maybe you could use an invisibility sphere and watch them do it, then blow the hell out of them.. heh. And if you want the critics to like it, maybe throw a few puzzles in, but not anything that'd need a PhD in rocket science to figure out.

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    Guest Anonymous User

    Posted

    I think Fanatic made the most important comment and summed it up nicely: whatever Doom3 does it should change the downward spiral of slower and less intense gameplay. Both in single player and multiplayer, games have been: less speed, more limited weapons, less carnage. Doom3 needs speed, brutal weapons, insane amount of baddies that keep storming you relentlessly, lots of gore, and weird spooky maps. Anything else is details, especially a storyline. Good text ling.

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    Guest Anonymous User

    Posted

    that "Fanatic" post is me. can't you set a cookie or sommat? this is dumb. --Aardappel

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    Yes the new Doom game should concentrate on fast, intense gameplay. The fps released lately are too slow paced imo. If id can accomplish this I think most people will be happy. I was also thinking if the story was set up so that most of the game was set in Hell, more creative levels could be constructed. Instead of the standard tech/base or goth type environments, really intense otherworldly settings could be used as the backdrop for new and unique (not to mention frightening) gameplay.

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    There should be more intense gameplay with the new DOOM, but not so much that it hands out headaches. That's why I want a variety of gameplay. We shouldn't cater to anyone who wants all rush rush, blast away, intense gameplay. We shouldn't cater to anyone who wants a stroll in the park all the way through, either. Create a variety of gameplay to satisfy everyone. :-b

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    Guest Confusion

    Posted

    Whoever first came up with the idea of flashbacks...I don't know what got into you. For a start, these sort of sequences would prove to be annoying interuptions, and in any case, they take the whole point out. If you're wandering around the Tower of Babel and find these two great bloody Cyberdemon hooves lying on the ground in an enourmous pool of congealing blood, I don't think that a flashback sequence is neccessary, or even in any way desirable. People will remember on their own, damnit.

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    Guest Anonymous User

    Posted

    anyone want a ball or two i have some. balls ball for Sale get them while they're hotish-i have only two for sale so come come one all and try my beautiful bouncy balls

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    Guest Sethsez

    Posted

    Great ideas! However, I don't think hell should be red and orange, but instead have skulls and blood and intestines coming from every surface, like the original Doom. Also, I think Trent Reznor should do the soundtrak. He did great work for Quake, and his style is perfect: sometimes quiet, dark, and moody, and other times just blast the walls out heavy. Both like Doom. Also, I think that there should be some sort of story, but it should NOT restrict level design or monsters in any way.

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    I meant to put this in my previous post but I forgot. The occult theme of Doom should be exploited for all it's worth. Make the game EVIL. Really EVIL. Ling's idea for chanting Archviles is brilliant and is one of many ways this can be done.

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    Guest Anonymous User

    Posted

    I'm nervous about this. Romero was what made the two DOOM games so great. Without him, what will DOOM be?

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    Guest FreAkish

    Posted

    Bring in all the old weapons and monsters with a few extra's. include a deathmatch option to limit weapons to classic DooM and make sure the berserk is good enuff for us to have some fun with newbies and the game should be great.

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    I just went to the bathroom. And guess what, I ran out of tiolet paper. Good thing I found one of the DOOM novels at hand.

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    ZombiZ, I deleted your post because it was so damn long and you didn't know / forgot that you need to use HTML to break up long posts. I hope you have it saved somewhere... use

    between paragraphs.

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    Guest LordUnum

    Posted

    He had some good points there, Ling. He obviously put A LOT of thinking into his post, and it would be a real pity if the ideas he brought up (whether liked/disliked by some) were lost due to a mere failure of using proper syntax. Admittedly, damn his post was long! But I'd rather see that long, messy post than miss the opportunity for his ideas to be debated upon. After all, we don't know if/when he will be back to this site, and in the meantime, the post's contents are lost, maybe permanently.

    In case he doesn't come back, he heralded EAX sound, the Unreal-engine's light-sourcing, and hardware T&L as some of the technologies Doom should utilize. He also mentioned the introduction of real-time physics in most of the ways the player(s) interacts with the environment, and realism in the way the player(s) is affected by weapons, and such. In addition, he said the title should not be Doom 2K, or anything that would sound cheesy, or imply a "rehash," but something more like (I believe this was what he said: "Doom, the Legacy of the Last Marine." The game would also consider the affected mental psyche of the Space Marine (player) after having been through Doom, Doom 2, Final Doom, etc, and how that would affect gameplay.

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    Guest Confusion

    Posted

    Bet you're sick of hearing my voice...anyway, I agree that ZombiZ's ideas are...interesting. Not what I'd really want to see in DOOM III, but at least he's put a bit of thought into it.

    I wonder what else he thinks of. I'd be interesting to see any SHORTER posts of his.

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    I think whatever doom turns out to be it will be very cool. But keep the compatibillity with older *.wad files.

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