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    Look Mr. B, It's a Demon


    Linguica
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    His prose is a bit dense and nerdy to validate reading, but his headings are good:

    * Doom has a more varied bestiary than most modern FPSes

    I believe this is, sum total, Doom's greatest asset. Not just their variety but their quality of design. Hand-crafted no less.

    -
    * Doom was abstract in ways that empowered its level design

    Yes, it takes a reasonable length of time to craft a great level. Unlike Source engine games.

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    Awesome read. One of reasons I do plan to make full-fledged FPSes on doom engine (read: gzdoom or EDGE) is that it's much easier to create new games with modified doom engines whereas it takes days to create a room in modern engines. This is quite far away though. I'm already attempting to create one (it runs standalone now but won't leave pre-alpha phase until Late 2010).

    I believe this is the future of doom modding. Whereas people will still create casual levels, many will try to do their own FPS games. Would love to see that happen.

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    I had overlooked the thread because I assumed from the title this was the latest in the series of "let's rip stuff from recent games to try to recreate it in Doom, maybe with help from ACS and 3D floors". In reality, it's a much more interesting experiment (and more legitimate).

    The analysis is interesting as well. The points it makes about what elements of gameplay have been lost in newer games is, in my opinion, the reason why Classic Doom is still going rather strong after all these years (strong enough for Id to port it to the iPhone and the Xbox, and to commission a new nine-level episode from Nerve Software). You can't find such gameplay elsewhere.

    alterworldruler said:

    I believe this is the future of doom modding. Whereas people will still create casual levels, many will try to do their own FPS games. Would love to see that happen.


    It has already happened. See Urban Brawl or Harmony for example.

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    Very good article, and great to see from someone who's a big name in the industry.

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    I, like Gez, somewhat overlooked the map thread for a while, and only noticed a week or so ago that it was by the guy who actually made the original map. Now seeing that he was the lead level designer for Bioshock 2, that's even more awesome.

    Fantastic article; makes some really interesting points. I hope Jean-Paul LeBreton sticks around in the Doom community for a while :)

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    esselfortium said:

    I, like Gez, somewhat overlooked the map thread for a while, and only noticed a week or so ago that it was by the guy who actually made the original map. Now seeing that he was the lead level designer for Bioshock 2, that's even more awesome.


    Me too, I feel like a jrk now, since I also like Bioshock a lot. Also, JPL, Irrational looking for any more level designers? lol

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    PROTIP: Actually reading threads helps to learn about a project. lol jk ;D

    Remaking levels from more modern games has been done many times. Unless you mean remakes built by the original level designers of more modern games, which is pretty cool.

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    TimeOfDeath said:

    PROTIP: Actually reading threads helps to learn about a project. lol jk ;D

    I did, but I didn't see that he was also the original level's author until I went over the first post in it again with a fine-toothed comb. :P

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    Everything in the 'doom design analysis' is obvious to me and I agree with it. Its probably to be expected that someone with a career in modern games would be late to catch onto such concepts.
    Maybe since mario 64 or who knows when, 3d games have been cookie cutter clones of eachother. They could essentially all be titled '3D Game', then with subtitles for that particular clone (mario 64, crash bandicoot, resident evil etc etc). I guess when code gets complex like that, it has to be borrowed to be efficient so everyone uses the same basic 3d code/light effects/etc. There are occasional more surreal experiments, like katamari damawhatever/ mario galaxy/etc that uses more unique game rules/laws than trying to emulate reality. Games don't have to mimic reality. Hearts is fun and it just uses abstract cards etc. The technological advancement of representing realistic objects in an artificial 3d universe is scientifically interesting but games aren't necessarily fused with realism. Games are about strategy (tactic/countertactic/planning/etc)/using your brain/skill (inputting complex keys etc that requires practice/learning). For keyboard-only at least, doom really puts skill/brain in overdrive (which is fun imo) because almost every finger has a key to push, thus making input complex and difficult/fun to master.
    I wish I had more ability to make my own games easily. I might make a weird spidery creature that is just interesting/complex to control due to requiring intense concentration/skill. Like maybe it has 8 legs and you put your 8 fingers on asdf jkl; and each finger controls 1 leg somehow and you have to coordinate it in the right patterns or something. I basically like stuff that takes a lot of brain concentration and modern games are usually slow boring strolls through 3d worlds.

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    gggmork said:

    Everything in the 'doom design analysis' is obvious to me and I agree with it. Its probably to be expected that someone with a career in modern games would be late to catch onto such concepts.

    gggmork said:

    I just felt like complaining about something

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    Nah, the black vs. white keys seems awkward/illogical and I don't want to learn the archaic, bloated, visually confusing notation that everyone else uses so I'll just complain about it instead.

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    I'm glad that was pointed out to me - not only was the accompianing article an interesting read, but the level was very fun to play and certainly reminded me of when I watched my brother playing Bioshock, though scaled to fit the game we all know and love. Very good stuff all in all, and the blue pallette really did add a unique touch.

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    Doom feels more like 1st person Robotron than a modern FPS

    That's one of the most accurate and simple descriptions of Doom's gameplay I've seen in a long time.

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    that article is quite awesome - and it doesn't even touch the DM aspects of doom! there is virtually nothing that relates to doom multiplayer.

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    Good article.

    gggmork said:

    Nah, the black vs. white keys seems awkward/illogical and I don't want to learn the archaic, bloated, visually confusing notation that everyone else uses so I'll just complain about it instead.


    Haha, it seems fine to me...

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    The companion piece is an interesting read.

    If it's not a dumb question - is there a reason why this thread isn't showing on the home page?

    Edit - Now I see it.

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    It's always good to see modern level designers popping into contribute to the oldschool games like Doom and Doom 2.

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    Wow I didn't notice that this map was made by someone who helped make Bioshock 2 til I read the post O_o

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    Philnemba said:

    Wow I didn't notice that this map was made by someone who helped make Bioshock 2 til I read the post O_o


    lol ditto

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    eargosedown said:

    Now, he should go make a doom 2 map for bioshock =)

    Dead Simple or Entryway should be simple enough.


    Dead simple -
    walk into a room with 4 nitro splicers on pillars and 3 on the floor. F. Then walls lower and many, many machine gun turrets are revealed. Yeah ...

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    Just got around to reading this article. Definitely an interesting and insightful read, and he hit many points about Doom's gameplay and other bits that I definitely agree with.

    Also, I had no idea this was the same guy who worked on Bioshock. Pretty awesome to see someone from the current game dev circle to come back to Doom and make some maps! Just hammers home how awesome Doom is :D

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