Mock Statistics

The Ultimate DooMer said:

Map 20 - The last bit with all the stealth barons in (although I've just found you can jump over the lot of them and exit, which I swore you couldn't do in the pre-release build I had).

Like I said earlier, I was playing with Sniper of Insanity, and a couple of blasts from the Super Mega Destructo Cannon (Heh) can take them out quite easily.

My fully-automatic mdk alias worked like a charm on that level too :) Not to mention all the other levels... I especially liked the caco level ("right in the crotch" if I remember correctly). Spraying the horde with mdk's and watching them deflate and float to the ground was highly satisfying. I get the feeling that command was made for levels like these...

Xaser said:

Mock2 is teh awesome, but I do have a few questions:

What were the errors in 22 and 38? Also, on map36, when I try to get past all the Cybers, the level ends and kicks me back to map12. Has this been fixed? Is there any exit on the last level (41), or are you supposed to die or something? Also, what are the 2 areas that can't be finished without cheating?

Ah, allow me.

Map 22: The block that raises when you enter the "areena" works 100% now.

In MAP38, I fixed the Romero head thing Cyb made which Randy broke in more recent version of ZDoom by making objects stick to the floor (IE, it didn't fall, so I had to make it lower).

Yes, if any of the cybs die you return to MAP12. Also, there's a switch in the void that will take you to MAP12. This is supposed to happen, this counts as the "normal" exit. The secret exit is in the nazi training camp.

In MAP41 you are indeed supposed to die.

Also, in my map (MAP22) it's quite possible to set the lift in the arena lowering without you being in the room. If you walk forward until the wall raises and then move back into the room with the backpacks, you can wait until the platform is fully lowered before running in to get the blue key. Most of the monsters will infight, and if you really need it there's an invuln in the "water park," so it's probably possible to beat the level without cheating...

Hmm. I'd pay to see a demo of that. ;)

The Ultimate DooMer said:

(this assumes of course that you're not starting from scratch on each map - in which case there'd probably be a whole lot more)

I tried them all from a pistol start, and didn't find many to be impossible. I had a similar experience to you with map20 - that final corridor just looked impossible without the semi-cheat you describe. I got stuck in a few maps, but that was mostly because I couldn't see how to get out of a room/area. For instance, I didn't see a way to escape from the initial area of map39 (I mean, the one with the "gross hack" signs).

This Mock Crew is the only one that can make this stuff. If anyone else did it, it'd be copy cat junk.

I've completed MAP18 in 47 seconds. Who has done better? =P

The Ultimate DooMer said:

Map 20 - The last bit with all the stealth barons in (although I've just found you can jump over the lot of them and exit, which I swore you couldn't do in the pre-release build I had).

One of the builds has an alternative version of MAP20, which includes really crazy slopes. Hyena excluded that one, because it was "too hard". I still have that version as an individual wad, if anyone wants it, I'll upload it to my webspace.

deathz0r said:

I've completed MAP18 in 47 seconds. Who has done better? =P

Click Here <=-ZDoom v53

deathz0r said:

I've completed MAP18 in 47 seconds. Who has done better? =P

45.

BTW, for those of you wondering who did the 'you fail it' part of the hybrid map, it was me. (it hasn't got my name next to it, but it should be easy to work it out if you played my two secret maps or looked at the team page on the site)

deathz0r said:

One of the builds has an alternative version of MAP20, which includes really crazy slopes. Hyena excluded that one, because it was "too hard".

Yes, it probably was that one. When I jumped over the barons I got blocked in mid-air, now I can jump on a baron's head and reach the exit without dying.

Nanami said:

Also, in my map (MAP22) it's quite possible to set the lift in the arena lowering without you being in the room. If you walk forward until the wall raises and then move back into the room with the backpacks, you can wait until the platform is fully lowered before running in to get the blue key. Most of the monsters will infight, and if you really need it there's an invuln in the "water park," so it's probably possible to beat the level without cheating...

I normally use the invincibility for other things (either the archvile camp or the the bit where the 4 cybers come at you) but that should work nicely, thanks! (that was one of my fave maps too, and it certainly has the best tune)

Grazza said:

I tried them all from a pistol start, and didn't find many to be impossible. I had a similar experience to you with map20 - that final corridor just looked impossible without the semi-cheat you describe. I got stuck in a few maps, but that was mostly because I couldn't see how to get out of a room/area. For instance, I didn't see a way to escape from the initial area of map39 (I mean, the one with the "gross hack" signs).

The outdoor room with the spitting image of hell? And the 8 doors? Or do you mean the room where you start (if so, let yourself scroll).

btw, if you play the wad without starting with a pistol each time, you'll now find none to be impossible. (yes, even map40, which is extremely tough but beatable)

OMG Nami teh demo goddess shows her supar leet skills again.

Now Mock2 demostrates exactly what I want to see in a wad: simple design, freakin good gameplay. Mock2 has become more of an brillant wad rather than being as a joke. I loved every bit of Mock2, kudos to the Mock2 team...with the exception of the bastard who did map18...

argh i should have joined before i disappeared.. argh!

god those maps are hilarious looking! I can't wait to play.

did that sound cheesey?

ya. YA!

The Ultimate DooMer said:

The outdoor room with the spitting image of hell? And the 8 doors?

Yes, that one.

The Ultimate DooMer said:

btw, if you play the wad without starting with a pistol each time, you'll now find none to be impossible. (yes, even map40, which is extremely tough but beatable)

Yes, map40 was fine (from pistol start). Only the revenants proved tricky (I got the Adam Hegyi message there a few times). Oh yes, and getting telefragged was a problem until I knew the spawn spots.

Edit: actually, now that I try to record a map40 demo, some of the other monsters prove tricky too. :( I've just got cybor-roxxeted for great justice. Well, it did tell me not to come back.

It would be boss if someone could extract the music from level 41 and put it up on DW's remix list.

Little Faith said:

It would be boss if someone could extract the music from level 41 and put it up on DW's remix list.

ditto, someone really needs to do that

Grazza said:

Edit: actually, now that I try to record a demo, some of the others prove tricky too. :( I've just got cybor-roxxeted for great justice. Well, it did tell me not to come back.

If you try to make a demo of MAP22 good luck. I played through a few times but never managed to do it without using god mode. I know the general process but that doesn't make it easy.

Little Faith said:

It would be boss if someone could extract the music from level 41 and put it up on DW's remix list.

http://deathz0r.slipgate.org/d_in_ci2.it

Deathman said:

with the exception of the bastard who did map18...

/me takes a deep bow

Entirely my own creation. I originally had the light level set to 0, but Hyena made me change it to 32.

Its this kind of self indulgent, inverted community masturbation that makes me want to quit the doom 'scene' and all it stands for.

Jon said:

Its this kind of self indulgent, inverted community masturbation that makes me want to quit the doom 'scene' and all it stands for.

Agreed. What a waste of time and talent. Great job!
Want to make a joke wad? Try making something funny with a hint of quality. The fact that people are praising this wad is spitting people who actually try right in the face.

Shaviro said:

Agreed. What a waste of time and talent. Great job!
Want to make a joke wad? Try making something funny with a hint of quality. The fact that people are praising this wad is spitting people who actually try right in the face.

Given that some people would consider this a quality effort, you are the one who's spitting people in the face by making such a remark. If you don't like humor WADs, stay away from them and work to counter-balance their abundance instead of complaining.

I don't think there's anyone on the team who's decided "Screw real wads, I'll just make joke wads forever and ever!!!" I for one just occasionally get tired of making things perfect and feel like expressing my creativity in a completely retarded unusual way. I like taking a break, spewing some random amusing ideas that wouldn't work in a quality map out of my system, and moving on with more good stuff.

Fredrik said:

Given that some people would consider this a quality effort, you are the one who's spitting people in the face by making such a remark. If you don't like humor WADs, stay away from them and work to counter-balance their abundance instead of complaining.

I disagree. The people who think this wad is a "high quality effort" can do so just fine, but they should not put it ahead of wads made by people who are trying to make something good. Mock2 was obviously intended to be crap and I am going to treat the wad accordingly. It was crap, success!

sargebaldy said:

I don't think there's anyone on the team who's decided "Screw real wads, I'll just make joke wads forever and ever!!!" I for one just occasionally get tired of making things perfect and feel like expressing my creativity in a completely retarded unusual way. I like taking a break, spewing some random amusing ideas that wouldn't work in a quality map out of my system, and moving on with more good stuff.

I have no beef with joke wads or humor wads as long as their are funny. When a team gets praised for doing something intended to be crap and favoured, I fail to see the point. This is not a humor wad, this is a "intended crap wad" and those were funny back in 1997.

while I'm overall disappointed by the final mock2, it did have it's share of funny moments (between much longer periods of mind numbing dullness), I would have much prefered that people exploited zdoom's features to be funny and overused (ie messages popping up, shifting the level to be less detailed, or map29, which is a prime example of a really funny map) and not exploited bad mapping like "here is a map with 1000 cyberdemons". I can't think of a time that 1000 cyberdemons was ever funny. If I downloaded a map with 1000 cyberdemons I would delete it instantly. I also don't think the maps should have been made impossibly hard, I'd have prefered some light difficulty, something like how hard episode 1 is or the first bunch of doom2 maps. Also the maps where you had to run really long distances or wait 15 mins for a lift (or for a door to open or a floor to lower, my map is guilty of the last one, I can't recall what made me include it, I guess it seemed humerous at the time?) need to die die die. waiting != funny

that said, I don't really see a problem with the fact that it got made. most of the maps took around a day or two to make (mine, for instance, took me all of four - five hours) and the really important thing is that the autors enjoyed making their maps, I certainly had fun making my map. naturally I'd prefer a single really good map (note it's also possible to make a really good, detailed map be funny, though it takes much more effort) but as it is I'm not really angered by the existance of mock2, and I don't see why anyone else should be either.

It's just Doom, chill.

Yeah, there was some maps in there I thought were pretty tired ideas.. a big room with a bunch of cybs is just bad, it's not funny. Same goes for Speedrunner's Nightmare, which was just a pitch black maze with spectres. SoM Did It, Fredrik's map15, and jackass' map28 are other stuff that really just shouldn't have been in there. There's a lot of stuff in here that's funny for two seconds and annoying for 3 minutes. But yeah, people enjoyed making this and I don't see why you need to attack people for doing so. The point here is for people to have fun mapping, not necessarily wow everyone else with 1337 scripting and detail.

I'm not angered by Mock2's presence at all. I'm angered by the fact that it's being praised like something rare, innovate and fantastic. (Overstatement, duh)

Shaviro said:

I'm not angered by Mock2's presence at all. I'm angered by the fact that it's being praised like something rare, innovate and fantastic. (Overstatement, duh)

Jealousy?

Fredrik said:

Jealousy?

O_o
Stupidity?

Well, I can't think of any other reason why anyone would furiously argue that there's a problem with someone else receiving praise (and even get angered) :P

Fredrik said:

Well, I can't think of any other reason why anyone would furiously argue that there's a problem with someone else receiving praise (and even get angered) :P

Because it's putting other wads in the background, wads that are actually meant to be good. I think it's making a joke out of anybody who's trying.

Shaviro said:

I'm not angered by Mock2's presence at all. I'm angered by the fact that it's being praised like something rare, innovate and fantastic. (Overstatement, duh)

Well it is rare (a megawad that isn't conventional in any way), innovate (some really cool concepts and abuses of ZDoom features) and fantastic (challenging but not impossible gameplay, the way ZDoom features are abused and the music).

As for putting other wads in the background - doesn't that happen every time a big project hits newstuff? (except that occasion when 2 big projects came out together and no other wads did)

I can understand why you think that - I have similar feelings about some of the 'classic' big-name megawads (there are lots of underrated wads I think are better) but it's all down to personal opinion, and I could easily rant about them here, but I'm not.