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    The /newstuff Chronicles #122


    Hyena

    Had computer problems. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it. My great thanks go to Cyb who was nice enough to take two of the wads off my hands. It's embarrassing, really, when you only get 8 wads in one week and can't even do them all yourself.
    On an unrelated note, wow. Ultimate Doomer's new review format is really simple and nice. I like it.
    Cyb says: If you're curious, I reviewed IC Doom 2003 and CC Doom.

    • Blind Alley T., "Waste Processing" - Gene Bird
      134k - Doom2.exe - SP -
      We get the point, Grandpa :p. Well, some parts of this wad look fairly good, other parts look a bit ugly. The thing that bothers me the most however is the overuse of large monsters. If you're in the mood for Hell Revealed and like a challenge, then this could be right up your Alley (pun not intended) but since I'm not Adam Hegyi I didn't like having to fight a revenant up close with a single-barrel with no room to dodge rockets, and sergeants blasting away in the distance. My record so far is killing the revenant after getting punched only three times. The level fluctuates constantly between not-frustrating and frustrating. I wouldn't recommend it to those who are not godgurumasters.

    • The Last Strike Deathmatch 2003 Edition - Gothy, Jackass, and Chrono
      1M - Zdoom/Doom2 - DM -
      Misc. Author Info : We all hate dwango5 map01
      THANK YOU! These three authors are my new best friends.
      Now, this is sort of a follow-up to "Last Strike Deathmatch Gold Legacy Edition" and it's very much the same style of play. In fact, I'm almost positive one of the levels was taken directly from their last wad.
      Some great detail, and some fun little DM maps to waste your time on. However, it didn't have as great an effect on me personally because I'm getting pretty tired of deathmatch megawads and levelsets. To try to be as fair as possible, it is a fun deathmatch wad, but I just didn't have much patience for it this time around. In any case, if people were to start playing this on zdaemon instead of dwango5, I'd be very happy.
      There were some very original and different levels here, to say the least. The ones that stand out the most are probably the Boxing Ring, Dome of Destruction, and German Town (in which cyberdemons roam the streets. Expect negative scores on this one)

    • Progress Quest Doom - Anonymous
      1k - Zdoom/Doom2 - SP (sorta) -
      Progress Quest meets doom. Well, not quite, but close enough. Those who like fun pointless wads like burger.wad (2% of you) should like this. Personally, I'd like to see it with a few more features. Maybe add quests and stats and etc. I'm sure it's possible if someone wants to put way too much effort into it.
      P.S. I think we're all fairly sure of who the "Anonymous" author is.

    • CC Doom - The CC Team
      173k - doom2.exe, DM -
      Ugh. These maps suck, so I'll make this short. Yeah, they suck. Not only are they completely void of anything that even remotely resembles detail, but the authors also appear to have no clue which flats and textures are meant to be decorative and which are meant to be entire walls. On top of that, call me crazy, but lights that blink from light levels of 255 to 0 are awful and should not be used for the lighting of entire rooms and hallways. Normally I would playtest DM maps with other people, but my brief SP walkthrough was enough to convince me to delete these and not subject another human to their craptacity. Skip it.

    • The_Exit - 6XGate
      54k - Doom.exe - SP -
      A tiny, fun, cool wad. The author is good with architecture, great with textures, and really nice with the lighting. The wad suffers a little from confuswitchenitis (which is a term I invented because I got tired of saying "hit a switch and run around the map looking to see what that switch did, when it turns out it only revealed another switch behind it in the same room") but otherwise has a lot of style. I would recommend this wad over bad ones. :p.

    • Comp 45 - Dennis "Exl" Meuwissen
      13k - Doom2.exe - DM -
      A simple deathmatch wad. For the most part, it looks really really plain and has a very limited number of textures (I wouldn't call it ugly, but it's not too pretty either) however, it's pretty fun. It's got a nice balance and it's not hard to find your way around. I'd recommend it for some 2 to 4 player deathmatch.

    • Extended Domination - Richard Jaspars 'Styx'
      171k - Doom2.exe - DM -
      This is like the opposite of comp45. It looks really nice, but it's not really as fun. It does have its moments, but it's not particularly memorable or original. It reminds me a lot of the gothicdm wads.

    • IC Doom 2003: Yet More Dooming - Ian Cunnings
      165k - doom2.exe, SP -
      This is a bug fixed version of a map released last week and reviewed by Ultimate Doomer. Fortunetly for Mr. Cunnings I didn't play his map last week, so rather than just the above sentence, you all get another review of his map, hooray!

      Well first off the map is rather large. Usually with large maps I end up getting lost and then discouraged, so I give up not wanting to spend a half hour searching for a door I passed 20 minutes ago with no monsters to occupy me. This map manages to keep me, who gets lost with little problem (I've gotten lost on my own maps while I was making them) from getting lost. However, that said, there are a lot of areas that look very similar to other areas, which can annoy a bit, and also makes for that wonderful copied and pasted feel. Still, these areas don't occur too often, so it's not all that much of an issue.

      Monster placement is quite well done. The author also apparently likes imps, as there are probably more imps in this map than all other monsters combined (and there are a LOT of monsters (561 on UV). The ammo balance is also great. It always seemed that just when I was about to run out of ammo there would be some more in the next room. Very well done.

      Also it's worth noting that while there are an assload of monsters, I never once felt overwhelmed by them, which is good (keeps away the Alien Vendetta "help I'm surrounded!" feel). Overall, the map has some nice details here and there, excellent gameplay and it's definitely worth a play if you haven't already.

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    I liked Cyb's review of IC Doom. By throwing in references to old wads, it really sounds like he knows what he's talking about. :p

    Nice work, Cyb.

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    Hyena said:

    I liked Cyb's review of IC Doom. By throwing in references to old wads, it really sounds like he knows what he's talking about.

    Yeah it does. But trust me, he doesn't.

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    Hyena said:

    The author also apparently likes imps, as there are probably more imps in this map than all other monsters combined (and there are a LOT of monsters (561 on UV).[/list]

    Perhaps he was inspired by impencse.wad (or felt the same way the marine did!)

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    Hmm... lets do the math.
    Blind Alley T, 337 UV monsters is way to many.
    IC Doom 2003, 561 UV monsters not a problem. Hmm... OK.

    I do not consider Blind Alley T., a hard map on UV. I have however played it at least 50+ times. The first run through any map is not likely to be someone's best run. No replay value if you just ace it first time. Like the text files says: "watch the demo to see how it is done or die in the traps" your choice. It is a very do-able map, and UV is aimed at the experienced player, there are skill levels after all.

    The frustrating and the not so frustrating is just the ebb and flow of the overall battle orchestrated by the author. The map is challenging, yes. Hell Revealed? Not even close.

    This is certainly one of those maps that the player will have to decide if he likes or not, based on his own ability. I promise, this grandpa is no doom god, and I have no problem with the map. I figure the young guys with the quick reflexes ought to be able to just rip through this one.

    I really enjoyed IC Doom 2003 during the hour and one half it took me to get to the final area, I explore a lot. Then, facing down 2 CB's with 140 bullets and 2 rockets sort of took some of the fun out of it, this is where I run for the exit. The map is very nicely done and has a sort of castle like feel to it. The battles are constantly firm but not overwhelming because of the shear size of the map. Replay value on this one should be very good, when I figure out when to save ammo for the end.

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    Yes that's something I forgot to mention, in the final battle of IC 2003 ammo is really low, and I actually bolted for the exit when the mastermind showed up. There are cells hidden in the blood pits in that area however, which are extremly helpful with the cybers.

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    Searcher said:

    Hmm... lets do the math.
    Blind Alley T, 337 UV monsters is way to many.
    IC Doom 2003, 561 UV monsters not a problem. Hmm... OK.


    o_O MATH? The math has nothing to do with it.

    1. I reviewed Blind Alley T, and Cyb reviewed IC Doom 2003 so we have different opinions on what is too hard.

    2. The actual number of monsters does not define how hard the map is. There are many, MANY variables.
    a. Monster types. 200 hellknights is harder than 400 imps.
    b. Size. The bigger the map, the more monsters you need to fill it.
    c. Ammo, health, armour and powerups. Fighting one baron with a pistol is much harder than five barons with 50 shells, a super shotgun, and blue armour.
    d. Room. Fighting a revenant in a 64x64 room is usually harder than fighting five revenants in a 1024x1024 room.
    e. Monster placement. Monsters who ambush you or ones that are hidden are usually tougher than monsters who sit around in the middle of an open field, especially if they have their back to you.
    f. In-fighting. Getting monsters to fight each other depends on many things as well, such as different monster types and if you have room to move.
    g. Pain Elementals. A Pain Elemental is only one monster, at first, but you might as well count it as twenty to one hundred, depending on how long it takes to defeat them.
    h. Non-monster damage. Barrels, nukage, and crushers.

    I have played a map with less than 20 monsters that is still harder than most other maps I've played.

    And do *not* take me literally when I compare wads to each other. Just because I said the words "Hell Revealed", it doesn't mean it's AS hard as Hell Revealed.

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    Hyena, That was not a personal attack and I hope you did not percieve it as such. I am, just like you, expressing my opinion.

    I have to agree that there are many variables in in the map, all the ones you listed and then some.

    It just all comes down to what a player wants and his own length of experience in the game. There are a boatload of maps that I could not possibly finish without cheating. If I feel like I need to cheat to finish a map it gets no replay time on my system. However there is a group of Doomers, as you know, that are good and want the harder maps to play. Most of my maps are for the group under that group.

    Certainly you and Cyb review differently, you are after all different people. Difference is one of the things that makes the world an interesting place. I respect your opinion, and your right to voice it ;)

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    Hyena said:

    Also it's worth noting that while there are an assload of monsters, I never once felt overwhelmed by them, which is good (keeps away the Alien Vendetta "help I'm surrounded!" feel).


    So many people like Alien Vendetta. And that statement basically summarizes why I don't like it. No one wants to be surrounded by monsters. At least not as constantly as I was in AV...

    g. Pain Elementals. A Pain Elemental is only one monster, at first, but you might as well count it as twenty to one hundred, depending on how long it takes to defeat them.

    I hate those. But they only really become a problem if they're surrounded by other monsters; using a Pain Elemental for infighting is basically digging your own virtual grave. Alone, a Pain Elemental is no sweat if you know how to take care of 'em. One of ID's biggest mistakes was not giving them a "bite" attack like the Cacodemon. While both of them can easily be killed by running up and chainsawing 'em to death, the Caco actually puts up a fight, while the PE is a sitting duck because it has no space to spawn a lost soul.

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    PQ Doom could have had more features but I only spent 5 minutes on it. I mean, whoever made it only spent five minutes on it. I mean... Uh, you didn't see this post.

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    Searcher: No, I didn't really take it as a personal attack, and I hope my response wasn't taken as one. It's possible I may have over-reacted.

    But I think all in all we both made some valid points.

    Here are some fun facts about Mock 2:
    Map07 has 24 monsters (1 cacodemon and a bunch of imps, sergeants and chaingunners) and none of us has beaten it without cheating.
    Map08 has 993 cacodemons. I beat it dozens of times.

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    netnomad312 said:

    So many people like Alien Vendetta. And that statement basically summarizes why I don't like it. No one wants to be surrounded by monsters. At least not as constantly as I was in AV...


    That is why there is skill levels...
    IMO, av is one of the best megawads ever.

    I will check out the maps later... :)

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    Torn said:

    That is why there is skill levels...
    IMO, av is one of the best megawads ever.

    I will check out the maps later... :)


    Yeah, but most people like to stick to one skill level, not play the wad then decide half-way through whether they should go back and play a different one instead.

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    Even with skill levels, the premise is the same. Perhaps you're surrounded by 5 big monsters instead of 10. Nice...

    I'm gonna try "The Exit" now.

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    netnomad: play the first 11 maps of AV. I guarantee a good time. DOOM doesn't get any better than that.
    I agree that the most of the rest of the megawad is more for a "player's" tastes.
    and Torn is right; they took care to implement the skill settings.
    I could play some of those maps eternally.(cue Amarande now :)

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    heh, maybe there is many monsters in av on skill 4, but that skill is also called doomgod (uv :)). And serious, you should be able to finish it on skill 1. av13 and av14 is some of the maps I feel you get most surrounded in (I have played first and second episode in av most), but they are mostly very empty in skill 1, and you will not need to fight alot of cyberdemons too like you do on skill 4.

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    "Yeah, but most people like to stick to one skill level, not play the wad then decide half-way through whether they should go back and play a different one instead"

    Hehe.
    Perhaps its taking too much for granted people actually read the txt file and realize <g> I don't play doom 5 h a day so perhaps I should not play the skill setting that is reffered to as "up to hell revealed difficulty" :)

    And netnomad, av might not be your cup of tea, and thats more than ok with me, but you seem to have the wrong idea about how we balanced the skill settings. Av skill 2 plays much like the regular Iwad levels with the exception of map26. Dosn't hurt to try it before you conclude on stuff ya know :P

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    Opulent said:

    netnomad: play the first 11 maps of AV. I guarantee a good time. DOOM doesn't get any better than that.
    I agree that the most of the rest of the megawad is more for a "player's" tastes.
    and Torn is right; they took care to implement the skill settings.
    I could play some of those maps eternally.(cue Amarande now :)



    Not everyone likes this style of playing. I HATE Alien Vendetta for the exact reasons that have been mentioned in this thread. If you take out the monsters this WAD offers NOTHING of interest. The level design is mostly mediocre and cannot compete with anything of quality I have seen in recent years. I had the feeling it's all rooms or hallways with an excessive amount of hidden rooms and traps filled with monsters that open at the most inappropriate time. Even most older megawads (like Requiem, Strain, MM1+2) have more to offer.

    A good level should be a balanced mix of challenging fights, some puzzles and nice architecture. I don't consider a simultaneous assault of 20 or 30 monsters a challenging fight, there are no interesting puzzles in most AV levels and many of 'em look bland and uninteresting.

    Playing this WAD on the easiest setting doesn't help either because it's the same boring gameplay only with a few less monsters.


    IMHO one of the most overrated WADs of all time.

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    Graf Zahl said:

    Not everyone likes this style of playing. I HATE Alien Vendetta for the exact reasons that have been mentioned in this thread. If you take out the monsters this WAD offers NOTHING of interest. The level design is mostly mediocre and cannot compete with anything of quality I have seen in recent years. I had the feeling it's all rooms or hallways with an excessive amount of hidden rooms and traps filled with monsters that open at the most inappropriate time. Even most older megawads (like Requiem, Strain, MM1+2) have more to offer.

    A good level should be a balanced mix of challenging fights, some puzzles and nice architecture. I don't consider a simultaneous assault of 20 or 30 monsters a challenging fight, there are no interesting puzzles in most AV levels and many of 'em look bland and uninteresting.

    Playing this WAD on the easiest setting doesn't help either because it's the same boring gameplay only with a few less monsters.


    IMHO one of the most overrated WADs of all time.



    I'd like to see you make better looking design than AV with doom2.exe limits. Some AV maps, like 11,20 and 29 are surely among the very best looking doom maps ever.

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    Erik said:

    I'd like to see you make better looking design than AV with doom2.exe limits. Some AV maps, like 11,20 and 29 are surely among the very best looking doom maps ever.

    Agreed, there's some absolutely beautiful work there.

    Graf Zahl's points...
    "I had the feeling it's all rooms or hallways with an excessive amount of hidden rooms and traps filled with monsters that open at the most inappropriate time. "
    Surely, in essence this is what Doom is all about.

    "IMHO one of the most overrated WADs of all time. "
    We respect your opinion but Doom is a game, a game to be played and AV is most highly rated amongst the top players of the game and that should be respected too. I.E. maybe there's something there that you're missing, watch some of the Compet-n lmps and see how they deal with being surrounded by 20/30 monsters. There are levels upon levels of skill in playing Doom (one of the reasons for it's longevity) and those levels can only be realised by overcoming the challenges the game has to offer. Yes the difficulty of wads such as HR and AV on UV can piss you off but that's part of the learning/understanding process...after all nothing worthwhile comes easy.

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    magikal said:

    Yes the difficulty of wads such as HR and AV on UV can piss you off but that's part of the learning/understanding process...after all nothing worthwhile comes easy.



    Frankly, I don't care. It is not the 'difficulty' of these levels I don't like. It's the unimaginativeness of how this difficulty is achieved. Anybody can place a sh*tload of monsters in his/her level and declare it 'hard'. This is simply a type of gameplay I don't like and most likely will never like. As I cleraly stated, this is my OPINION!

    I'd like to see you make better looking design than AV with doom2.exe limits. Some AV maps, like 11,20 and 29 are surely among the very best looking doom maps ever.


    I could name hundreds of WADs for vanilla Doom that not only look better but also play better. (My current favorites are Darkening Ep.2 and Operation: Arctic Wolf, but the list would go on and on...)

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    Graf Zahl said:

    Not everyone likes this style of playing. I HATE Alien Vendetta for the exact reasons that have been mentioned in this thread. If you take out the monsters this WAD offers NOTHING of interest. The level design is mostly mediocre and cannot compete with anything of quality I have seen in recent years. I had the feeling it's all rooms or hallways with an excessive amount of hidden rooms and traps filled with monsters that open at the most inappropriate time. Even most older megawads (like Requiem, Strain, MM1+2) have more to offer.

    A good level should be a balanced mix of challenging fights, some puzzles and nice architecture. I don't consider a simultaneous assault of 20 or 30 monsters a challenging fight, there are no interesting puzzles in most AV levels and many of 'em look bland and uninteresting.

    Playing this WAD on the easiest setting doesn't help either because it's the same boring gameplay only with a few less monsters.


    IMHO one of the most overrated WADs of all time.


    Haha, what version of AV have you been playing. I'll give you it's hard as fuck (on skill 4 anyways, as has been stated it's much more managable on lower skill levels), but really that was the entire point of it. That aside, perhaps you should do some research and do a -nomonsters walkthrough of AV. Granted the maps aren't super detailed (for good reason since it was built for vanilla doom) but all the maps are excellent quality and some of them are nothing short of spectacular. Might I direct you to some screenshots I took for my review in newstuff #109:

    http://www.doomworld.com/images/newstuff/109/av03.png
    http://www.doomworld.com/images/newstuff/109/av06.png
    http://www.doomworld.com/images/newstuff/109/av07.png

    In all honesty, given the high quality of all 32 maps (which far exceed those in Requiem and MM/2 and Strain all of which were nice, but remember they're all old) AV is probably the best Doom megawad made to date, and quite possibly it will remain that way. All issues people who insist on playing on skill 4 have aside, I doubt you will ever see a set of 32 levels of this quality ever again (excepting RTC possibly, but there aren't any vpo/hom etc issues to worry about).

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    Graf Zahl said:

    Not everyone likes this style of playing. I HATE Alien Vendetta for the exact reasons that have been mentioned in this thread. If you take out the monsters this WAD offers NOTHING of interest. The level design is mostly mediocre and cannot compete with anything of quality I have seen in recent years. I had the feeling it's all rooms or hallways with an excessive amount of hidden rooms and traps filled with monsters that open at the most inappropriate time. Even most older megawads (like Requiem, Strain, MM1+2) have more to offer.

    A good level should be a balanced mix of challenging fights, some puzzles and nice architecture. I don't consider a simultaneous assault of 20 or 30 monsters a challenging fight, there are no interesting puzzles in most AV levels and many of 'em look bland and uninteresting.

    Playing this WAD on the easiest setting doesn't help either because it's the same boring gameplay only with a few less monsters.


    IMHO one of the most overrated WADs of all time.


    Huh? IMO, av is one of the best megawads ever, and to think that all of the maps run under doom2.exe without vpo.
    And did you really play on skill1 or 2? I hope really, you didn't make your opion on skill 4 of "being too hard". But well, let us see what you can make under doom2.exe's limits.

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