ZDoom Ramps Up

Could deep water and slopes be done? you could build an overflow pipe for nukage at say 45 degrees with deep water and change the floor type to 'icy'. You could make all types of nasty traps.

It pretty cool that Randy has done this, but the combination with 3D floors is some way away. Producing 3D Floors required a lot of work to do (mostly by Andrew Apted I would add) - to such an extend that a new renderer had to be build. Producing slopes I doubt would of been quick either. Mixing the two is and entirely different kettle of fish also: since you have to effect both the ceiling and floor (whereas Randy has to effect one) and you must change the play sim to deal with slopes. So anyone expecting the two soon will be sadly disappointed.

<rant>

I also don't like this idea of port wars being shouted about either. I don't know of any. ZDoom has code in it that I've written that Randy has used and EDGE has used pieces of ZDoom code. I think its a complement to have my work used in someone elses project.

Another thing a lot of people don't realise is that EDGE is not a Doom Port of such, its a stand-alone engine. Whereas projects like ZDoom and Boom are built specifically with Doom in mind. EDGE is an engine that just happens to be able to use Doom data. The EDGE Engine could quite easily be used to produce a stand-alone game. Anyone who has used the Engine will realise that because very little cannot be configured by the game designer. As I have strayed topic, the last thing I would say heer is to point out that people who say EDGE is buggy obviously aren't using the latest version or aren't reporting it: I have one sound related error to fix on my TODO and nothing else. If you do have found a bug in EDGE then for gods-sake report it.

It has always been an opinion of mine that if all the programmers worked together we would of got here 18 months ago. Before any one mentions ORGE, that failed because of lack of time by essential people and squabbling by non-coder people. I still think it is possible.

</rant>

So darkknight says

I think its a complement to have my work used in someone elses project.

And on the other hand we have that post from a while ago where people starting ranting evil things about that site that used Doomworld's code. Why are some people so generous and some people so crap?

Confusion: It's because this website is copyrighted, and EDGE is under the GPL.

An entire website is impossible to rip of without being just plain pathetic, as you all saw from the example in an earlier post.

However, using code for a game engine to enhance something like video modes or drawing routines, that's much easier to use and enhance the receiver's engine. Plus, it's legal.

sirgalahadwizar: EDGE has real 3D floors.

Randy has asked to use my code and vice versa. The GPL encourages and the projects I've worked on have always been open source from start to finish, so I'm happy with it. I think you're straying onto intellical property. I'm willing to share a method of doing something, not something like a design. Think of it like: I'll show you how to paint, but I won't allow you to copy my painting.

We're in seriously danger of walking straight into the patent argument here, I would ask that we don't - call me old fashioned - but politics and religion should never be discussed in polite conversation :).

PPS. Got The Beatles in my head - "coo-coo-ca-choo" :)

Games based on the build engine like Shadow Warrior and Blood had "true 3d floors" and I dont think these had new rendering engines.

Well, since there are slopes then there should be curved surfaces, well it most likeley will be possible but might not be easy.

I wonder if there will also be tilted cams.

Swiss_CMan: no they didn't. They could do room over room only if the two were not visible from within each other (e.g. physically not connected).

The "3d" bridge you see in the first level of Duke 3D is a non-rotating sprite you can walk on and under, not a real bridge.

EDGE's 3D floors are real 3D floors, no tricks, no BS.

The floors in these two games used code that is similar to the 'skybox' code. When you are in the editor, you can not actually see the other floor above or below you.

Skyboxes use much the same programming. They are not physically there. They are in fact a programming trick. Everything I've seen of EDGE'S 3D floors, they seem to be 3D floors.

Now for my next request: if trick 3D floors can be done in Blood/Shadow Warrior, then can skyboxes be done in a Doom port? Surely it can't be too hard, and it will remove the stretched sky look that many Doom ports are guilty of using (except for Legacy, which seemed to re-draw the skys to the higher resolutions).

And except JDoom, whose sky looks the coolest, IMO.

Author: Randy Heit (---.minot.com)
Date: 09-07-00 23:10

It will be coming out sometime after I get it optimized and make the plane equations accessible to level authors (instead of hard-coding it into the loader). That screenshot was taken right after I got the plane renderer working and before *any* optimizations of any kind were made, and it was running at ~3 fps. The same scene now runs at ~20 fps, and I ought to be able to make it faster still by writing an assembly version of the routine.

And when asked how he will allow people to edit them in when released:

Author: Randy Heit (---.minot.com)
Date: 09-07-00 23:14

I didn't use any editor. I hard-coded the loader to give all the floors a 20 degree tilt. Once I make it accessible from an editor, I have at least two mechanisms I will implement to let you set the slope:

1. A line special that aligns the front/back ceiling and/or floor of a line to the other side of the line. This wouldn't even require the Hexen map format.

2. A new thing that you place in a sector to set the plane directly by specifying the plane's normal and a point on the plane. Note that this means you can do things impossible with Build's slopes, because the slope is not relative to any particular wall of the sector.

Gorc: Skyboxes are apparently going to be in the next version of ZDoom. Woohoo! :)

Also, the Legacy engine DOESN'T stretch the skies, the authors have simply edited the skies in a paint program and inserted them in the Legacy WAD as 256x240 (or something like that). If you wanted you could put these skies in ZDoom.

Go Randy, GO!

I wonder if there is also tilted walls.

The tilted walls would just be tilted floors going in the other direction.

I think all these extra features to Doom will cause problems. Slopes are cool, but if this evolutes, we may get real-3d doom ports.

My point?

Why not take an existing 3D engine and "downgrade" it?

:p

Yet I doubt a single level, not one, will use it effectively.

uhh, no. tilted floors use floor textures, what about walls? and tilted walls are different from floors. think about it

WTF?

Why does my cookie disappear when I reboot...

What about a 45 degree tilted floor? It's as much a floor as a wall then geometrically :P

someone went to my webpage from this page and deleted it- they had a .fi hostmask.