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    ZDoom Update


    Arioch

    Randy has updated the ZDoom pages with a reminder that if you've been experiencing random crashes with ZDoom 1.23b28, that there has been released an interim update 1.23b28a which is now available from the main ZDoom files page in addition to where it was posted in the ZDoom forums. In 1.23b29-related news, he is still working on the new changes, and the original estimate of "the next day or two" was probably a bit optimistic.

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    So this is the second version of version 28 of version 23 of the first version. Talk about "version angst" :) Hey, what about sticking to v1.2, v1.3, v2.0 etc ? It's a well known principle that as software becomes more complex people get more and more scared to step up to the next version. I have started to just use dates as versions, works much better... none of this "when is <major version> done" crap.

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    Guest wondersmith

    Posted

    I'm a great fan of ZDoom--it's the Co-Op Certification Laboratory's favorite port--but it's clearly suffering from "feature creep". Here's what keeps happening: Randy announces a new version with bug fixes from the last release plus a bunch of new features. He says he expects that the next release will be 1.23 final. But then he finds more bugs in the features he just added...and while he's fixing them he adds more new features...and...and... So here we are with an engine more powerful than Half-Life with the utterly ludicrous version number 1.23b28a. Even Microsoft would be impressed. Randy, you're a genius, a boon to the Doom community, and an all-around great guy, but please, could we have a solid 1.23 final release? You can always add new features to 1.24. :-)

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    you whiners shut up

    so long as the program is continually improving, what does it matter what we refer to it as?

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    as a coder, I think one shouldn't add any more features than the release was supposed to add -- focus on those. that's what versions are for.
    but this is a bit different; Randy gets a lot of feedback and Doomers-in-waiting for each successive build. If there weren't so many people playing and asking for Zdoom/Legacy builds, then we would probably only see final releases. And I am darn glad to see those incremental builds in there!
    Here's to Zdoom for adding so much fuel to the fire of Doom's unstoppable locomotive...

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    wth? I thought randy has moved the site at doomworld, and now he moved it out from doomworld back?

    IMO, randy, if by any chance that you would read this message, I have a request in the 1.23, I'm not sure if it has been included already, so I'd suggest this anyway that if it's possible for you can do, please add back the doom oldschool feature - silent sprites effects, like silent bfg and such what I'm talking about.

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    I think it would be cool if Zdoom supported avi's in the game for, like, wall textures or something. Errr.... wait.... less ideas = more chance of new Zdoom. Forget what I said. ^_^;

    =)

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    Don't bash Randy, he's a great coder and you should be thankful for his contribution to this community.

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    I not bitching or whining, yyou sad basrads! I never seen a program in Beta for almost two years!, except Micro$oft coded stuff it's always "Beta".

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    Randy should take a cue from MAME and just call the next version 1.52, and stop keeping it at 1.23bXX. In fact, just drop the bXX completely.

    And MAME got sick of this at .37b16...

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    And while we're at it he could make arbitrary version number changes. Tomorrow he can release whatever the most recent build he's got cooked up as 1.5, then next week he can release 3.0, and the week after that he can move back to 2.2 ...

    fuck it

    1.23b28a is perfectly sufficient

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    Guest Captain Napalm

    Posted

    Who cares what he calls it? As long there is a way to distinguish old versions from new versions any method is fine by me.
    Is saving fixed in the new beta yet?

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    what's the idea in keeping something 'beta' for such a long time, in such a way; is 1.23 an 'final' version (in which he will stop development, at least for a long time?). betas are prerelease versions, especially for commercial applications, free software develops less formally and doesnt need such a term; it has to do with how the program is distributed, a 'public beta' is practically an oxymoron. it's like each version of zdoom was a different 'game'

    of course it's just a name, but it sure makes people wonder (it's not like zdoom is a port needing attention, btw)

    oh, does anyone know if 28a is the same as 28-333?

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    It's reffered to as beta because it's a unfinished 1.23 version.. if it's reffered as version 1.23.28 then people will not agnowledge it as a beta and start ranting about how much it sucks cause of all the bugs..

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    no. free software like zdoom is always in development (unless the coder decides to leave it entirely or something). people will bitch anyway, thats the nature of (many) users or customers. reread my post :P

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    Legacy team used to ignore making betas.. they just hopped to the next versiion.. they got shit like hell for that.. now they release betas instead.. people don't complain as much anymore..

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    well, ok, im not a coder so maybe i dont know how stupid users can be in this respect, my point was that 'beta' is for a limited release among trusted testers.

    a big fat disclaimer on the main documentation and the project site is another way to keep these annoyances away

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    'beta' is for a limited release among trusted testers.
    ===================
    Not really. Like version numbers, everyone can make their own rules. For example, Winzip has a "beta" for everyone. So does Eudora, just to name a few.

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    To me the important thing about 1.23 final is that it is...final. By that I mean when Randy releases it, he has said "this is version 1.23, it works as well as I can/have the inclination to make it, and now here is your standard to edit for".

    The problem that I see if every beta release became an actual incremental version is that the goal posts would constantly be changing. Implementation of features can change rapidly from one beta to the next.

    This means people have to be very specific as to which version their project is for, as later versions may make changes that stop individual projects working. How many people would want to have 28 (and counting) different versions of Zdoom installed to ensure all wads worked?

    OK, I know people (myself included) have released stuff that require the various betas, but I have also done a lot of unreleased stuff that stopped working from one beta to the next because of modifications to the way new features were implemented. All minor problems, that were easy to get round, but I was editing against a "work in progress" standard, so I should expect such problems. Mind you, the mere fact that people do release stuff for specific betas does kind of water down my argument.

    Anyway, as I see it, once 1.23 is "final" then we have a standard to edit to. The features are there, and will not alter in their implementation. To me that is the importance of actually calling it a final version, it sets the standard for a longer period of time. If people want to edit for newer 1.24 betas (or however the numbering will go) they can (and probably will) do but they will also run the risk of the next beta not working with their WAD.

    1.23 final will be the official base line, just as 1.22 currently is, and has been so for 2 years. OK, there are few Zdoom specific wads released these days that do not require 1.23 features, but 1.22 is still the official standard (if there is such a thing). 1.23 still being beta effectively reserves the right to change until it is final. Just my £0:02

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