Reaverbot

no, but i've simultaneously figured out that it's wholly not worth attempting to discuss the triumphs and failings of D2016 and DE because for some reason people take any criticism of them incredibly personally and will argue about it with you in really lame ways until the heat death of the universe if you let them

hope they can find someone else to run vacuum cleaners behind meshuggah riffs for the next one

There are absolutely lots of popular slaughtermaps, but there are endless amounts of popular conventional maps focused around more traditional approaches to level design as well. Over the past few years people are starting to get it right finally though. The past five years have been full of lots of really good classic-styled fps games.

A lot of "retro" style shooters coming out over the past decade, not to mention 2016 and Doom Eternal, have somehow confused people into thinking that the default state of Doom was a slaughter wad; big fights in centralized locations with you fighting giant waves of enemies

I don't think I've ever really thought of Doomguy as myself, but at the same time I don't really do that with any silent protagonists that I can think of. I will say that his character isn't really important to me. Doom 1/2/64 just being about a dude who was really tough and survived was a simplistic action movie plot that was fine enough to me, but not something I actively thought about much. Doom 3's protagonist somehow has even less personality than the first games, but again, that was far away from the worst problem with that game. And while I find Doom 2016's iteration really cringey with its NIGHT SENTINELS and DOOM SLAYER being talked about in the world's worst cookie monster impression, it does so little with the concept that it's never actively bothered me much.

Eric Harris really liked Doom, and compared what they were doing to being "just like Doom" in a video he recorded before they initiated the shooting. That wasn't all that significant though, he was a high schooler in the 90s, he also just happened to be a sociopath. More significantly that people are getting wrong in this thread is the "bullied kids" aspect, which is mainly based on excuses their friends and families gave the media at the time, who completely ran away with it. Eric Harris was not a bullying victim, he was by all accounts after the media furor died down pretty much a bully himself. He had plenty of friends and went to parties and stuff, he just also had a habit of getting close to you and then starting to tell you about murder fantasies. He was a well-spoken time bomb that probably would have ended up doing something -else- really horrible if he didn't shoot up his school. Dylan Klebold was slightly closer to what the media portrayed them as because he actually was a depressive unhappy teenager that felt out of place, but he was also violent and desperate for approval, which was a perfect avenue for someone like Harris to manipulate and mold him into a partner. And at the end of the day, the people they killed were just a completely indiscriminate collection because they didn't actually have any targets to really go after, they were just kids with guns. Anyway, I'm sure it's happened to people, but I don't think addiction to something like Doom is quite as prevalent as addiction to something like MMORPGS or something. Something about those games really fuck people up.

pretty sure it was Requiem, but I don't remember where I got it from

thats a fucking hank hill ass, get some standards

It sounds like those people like something different than you and they want to talk about it. Nothing about anything in those threads you listed makes me feel like those people are trying to steal the enjoyment you have, unless the only way you can enjoy modern doom is if everyone else does too. I guess I'll just never understand why criticizing these games makes so many people fall on their swords without a second thought. It's not like I don't want to enjoy it. And while there are certainly bitter people out there that fit that bill, the majority of people in this thread don't seem to fit under that classification either.

I don't see anyone in here trying to force anything on anyone

My feelings aren't far off. The arena structure of the game really wore thin on me as early as going to Hell. At the best of times it made me think of Painkiller, which i don't particularly like but I can tolerate, and at the worst of times it made me think of Call of Duty's level design where you follow corridors that have small spatterings of enemies until you get to a big zone where you fight dudes for 5-10 minutes or so, repeat repeat repeat. I'm not entirely sure what else you can do with that AI though because like you said, it's basically made to run frantically around a big area and climb and jump and just kind of zoom around on crack. I'm not asking for Doom AI where things meander around and throw a fireball every two seconds or anything, but enemies having specific behaviors that don't blend together so much outside of a handful of them like Cacodemons and Mancubi would really go a long way into making fights more varied and giving you opportunities to build encounters that you won't forget five seconds after you walk out of the Designated Dude Killing Zone. I do admit I don't mind the glowy aspect of Eternal. It's not exactly visually attractive but it does look more interesting than Doom 2016. A lot of other stuff is making me roll my eyes like everything regarding the story, but I didn't think that was going to get better. What I'm mainly going to be watching for after it was released is if they did *anything* to make encounters more unique

tbh like half the comments i see defending the newer game from any and all criticism are just weird canned arguments that always run everything back to a handful of talking points. For all the talk about how people are hating on it, just about anywhere on the internet, criticism of D2016 or Eternal is usually met with fanboys dogpiling on you while addressing the things that you say in the least substantial way possible. People have this image in their head of why someone doesn't like their favorite game and they just can't muster any nuance beyond it

Strike them down with my hanzo steel

Had to look back over my post a few times to make sure i wasnt hallucinating and put something about it being successful or not in there but thankfully the crazy one is you

I'm sure it'll be passable like 2016 was.

tbh doom fans reacting to rap like 60 year olds is the most predictable thing ever

I don't like Doom 2016's attempt to modernize it and find those games immensely more fun than it, which was my entire point. Their level design is smarter, and as a result it's got way more memorable fights even with way simpler enemy AI and attack patterns. And I never said Brutal Doom created fatalities, so i don't know why you're giving me a hilariously condescending lecture about mortal kombat. Even if the fatality system wasn't inspired by BD (and I would be absolutely shocked if it wasn't considering how much BD had blown up around that time), it's still pretty annoying that the game is pushing you to watch the same couple dozen canned animations over and over again if you want to keep topping off your health and ammo. Honestly there should have been a mode or option to switch those off.

I tried really, really hard to get into Doom 2016 and I just couldn't manage it. Some things are really good, I fully admit. The modern iterations of the weapons feel really satisfying, the art direction for the demons is pretty cool. Visually overall I think it looks really nice. But the gameplay? I just kept bouncing off of that. It's somewhere between your average modern shooter crossed with Serious Sam or Painkiller, with you constantly getting locked into static arenas, and I have always really despised that because fighting in FPS games always works best in conjunction with creative level design to better facilitate interesting fights. In Doom 2016, ever fight feels almost identical to me. I'm running in circles, dudes are running and jumping around in boring places, and I just keep shooting them until I stop finding dudes. And that's to say nothing of other nitpicks that bother me about the gameflow like the useless and shallow upgrade system and the constant encouragement to do stupid brutal doom finishing moves. Games like Dusk and Ion Maiden/Fury prove that original concepts with classic fps level design are still attainable. I wish someone would take those design ideas and apply it to something as visually impressive as Doom 4. Until then, I'm probably not going to touch Eternal because it just looks like more of the same

I don't enjoy Doom 2 as a whole very much at all. I can sit through Doom pretty easily and play it level by level, but Doom 2 generally makes me want to skip between maps so I can avoid the less fun ones.

God, I hate death of the author. Half the time people employ it they seem to be trying to get something to fit their agenda.