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NiTROACTiVE

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  1. I have a close friend that has a husband who works as a car mechanic. He's a nice guy and I like him, but his mother recently committed suicide because of depression. My mother told me this right after we walked out of a hospital after my dermatology appointment, and it was terrible to hear such news. My friend and her husband also have two children that were the grandchildren of his mother. They all must be very sad after such a incident. What's even worse is that I didn't know that his mother was depressed, and I even met her plenty of times throughout my life. I've been thinking of my friend and her family ever since, and my condolences go to all of them.

    P.S. The dermatology appointment was just a check up and I did OK.

    1. Show previous comments  6 more
    2. MajorRawne

      MajorRawne

      exp(x) said:

      ...where are you getting your information from? I'd like to take a look at it. My knowledge on the subject is about 10 years old.

      Some of this thinking is relatively new, as is the regarding of depression as a type of anxiety disorder.

      I have spent about four years collating data on anxiety and depression, so if I listed my sources (I can't remember most of them anyway), the list would be long enough to circle the world. I have spoken to various therapists, experts, support workers, I've read magazine articles, I've read medical reports about medication trials (including relatively new ones like agomelatine), I've seen behavioural studies, plus I also went through this shit personally.

      Bear in mind that I was very depressed in the past and suffered from very severe anxiety. The behavioural approach taken to my aspergers has all but cured these conditions - I am at least 90% better and gaining strength each week. I have concentrated on rebuilding my inner strength, and knowing I am aspergers has made sense of my entire life. I effectively have no need of depression any more.

      TL;DR - I "found" myself, and it has helped me to eliminate the depression, with no real prospect of a relapse. Unless, of course, something really terrible happens - but now I am able to cope with shit, it really WOULD have to be end-of-the-world terrible.

      exp(x) said:

      EDIT: Also, how do you explain depression's heritability?

      When I was having therapy for anxiety and depression - before the treatment was changed to a behavioural approach towards aspergers, which had not been diagnosed up til that point - my therapist asked me to ask my mum if she suffered depression in my early years.

      It turned out that my mum was very depressed in those days. It was partly post-natal depression, partly because of life circumstances. I did not recall any of this and it was very shocking to me, but my therapist said, "Yes, I thought she'd say that". My mum also seems to have a worthlessness complex.

      It also turns out that my mum was physically ill when carrying me and, later, my brother. It was never stated by doctors but it was believed by my mum that she was allergic to male hormones or something. Again, in research, there seems to be an unproven correlation between mental illness in children and physical or mental illness in mothers during pregnancy.

      Is that a natural occurrence due to genes, or is it simply due to the child being reared by a mother who couldn't cope? Really, is a depressed parent going to be any reassurance or guide to a young child? (With all respect to my mum, who I love and respect.)

      --

      DoomUK, you say it pretty much how I see it. A depressed person has developed one or more negative schemas, so if for example they believe they are worthless, the negative schema is activated and they will interpret events as proof that they are worthless.

      Someone with a more positive self-opinion, who believes they are a good and worthy person, is not going to react in the same way if someone criticises them. Their confidence schema will activate and the person may brush the criticism off, or accept it and work to improve themselves and see this as a positive step. They would not be likely to internalise the criticism and beat themselves up over it as they would not be looking for proof they are worthless; they would be looking for confirmation that they are worthy.

      EXAMPLE:

      Event: A person is walking down the street when a gang of kids they don't know shout abuse at them.

      Negative schema: Oh God, they're insulting me but they don't know me, my flaws must really stand out, everyone's watching me being humiliated, I can't stand the embarrassment, I'm never going out again, I've really messed up, I've got to get home, I wish the ground would swallow me up...

      Positive schema: Who do those dickheads think they're talking to? I bet their parents are proud. Do they really expect people to believe what they're saying about me? They don't even know me. Fuck 'em anyway, I'm nearly at the pub.

      Sorry if this is gibberish, I'm really tired and this is very complicated stuff.

    3. DoomUK

      DoomUK

      MajorRawne said:

      they would not be looking for proof they are worthless; they would be looking for confirmation that they are worthy

      Not sure if you meant to phrase it like that, but neither suggests true self-confidence to me. Seeking validation from others, be it positive or negative, either means you're not secure in your "positive" opinion of yourself, or you're looking for reasons to justify your negative opinion of yourself respectively. Whatever the case, you need other people to tell you what to think, which is the antithesis of a confident preoccupancy.

      MajorRawne said:

      Positive schema: Who do those dickheads think they're talking to? I bet their parents are proud. Do they really expect people to believe what they're saying about me? They don't even know me. Fuck 'em anyway, I'm nearly at the pub.

      A reaction like this, even if it's just a collection of thoughts, still doesn't imply a sense of self-worth. The inversion of reacting negatively would be no reaction at all, because the implied sense of superiority wouldn't need to be reinforced (whether that's a healthy state of mind is debatable, but let's not go off on a whole other topic). As far as the confident recipient is concerned, those kids are just speaking in an alien language.

      Don't get me wrong, I'm the last person in the world who is in a position to lecture others on the fabled art of being self-confident. And I certainly don't mean to dismantle whatever techniques you've developed to surmount your own depression - I'm just speaking (pseudo-)academically, here. It's an interesting topic.

    4. MajorRawne

      MajorRawne

      I couldn't really get my head around it the other night, I left it way too late to explain that stuff. I'm more used to dealing with anxiety than depression and I can explain anxiety more clearly. Much of the depression stuff is theory and that theory is not cohesive yet.

      As for positive versus negative schemas, you have a strong grasp of it and worked out what I was trying to say in my admittedly rush-job of an example.

      Regarding positive schemas though, they are thoughts which actively promote self-improvement and self-confidence. They kick in whenever you need reassurance: "I can handle this, I'll be all right, I am excellent at my job, the targets are hard to challenge me because they know I can hit them" etc. A negative schema in this instance might be "I can't cope, there's something seriously wrong with me, my boss thinks I'm hopeless, I can't hit my targets because they're too high so what's the point".

      The neutral stance is meant to be the human norm. We are not meant to feel emotions for extended periods of time. Emotions cost energy and concentration. We are supposed to relax into a neutral state. "I've got a task to do, so I'm doing it. There isn't much time but if I start now, the time allowed will be sufficient. I've got targets to hit and I aim to hit them."

      One of the first things I was taught was how to avoid interpreting things in an emotional way. Basically you take note of what's happening around you and describe it to yourself with neutral words. Thus:

      The sky is blue. There are some white clouds. The daylight is bright. I can feel a breeze on my skin. It's rustling the trees. I can hear leaves scraping together. The chair I'm sitting on is made from wood. It's been varnished. I can't smell the varnish.

      Instead of:

      The sky is deeper than the ache of first love. The clouds look like animals - there's a giraffe. I can practically remember that time at the zoo when I was a kid. This chair's really uncomfortable, I can't wait to end this exercise and get up. The breeze is freezing, it's making the tree branches rattle together like a dead man's fingers. I'm starving.

      Again that's a somewhat facile example but it gets the point across.

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