PVS

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  1. I agree that for Hexen 'Skill 4 Speed + Class' will be better than 'WL speed' etc., otherwise it will be really a lot of obscure categories. Hexen is not very suitable for recording speed demos for single maps, from the original iwad's there are literally several maps suitable for this, but for hub's movies, PWAD's speedruns, etc. - the situation is much better. In any case, Hexen demos will be rare, even compared with Heretic. In 2014 Opulent recorded demo-pack for Hexen, I've been watching these demos on Hexen+ since then - he did an excellent and difficult job, also very rare! Some time ago, Opulent also sent me more complete archive with Hexen demos, I looked at their, this collection motivated me and now I have one more hobby project :) I looked all Hexen demos from this collection and in general I represent the situation, if you need any help about these demos - maybe I can help, now I have some information.
  2. Impie, Reject this is not a marker: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Reject You can find enough information about Reject lump, if you're interested. Many modern source ports do not use it, but Reject is important if you are making a map for the vanilla game or for vanilla-oriented ports like Chocolate/Crispy Heretic or old source ports. If you remove Reject lump completely - vanilla/chocolate/crispy Heretic will not be able to work with this map. Your latest version of the map compatible with vanilla or Chocolate/Crispy Heretic? Because if not and you focus only on ZDoom, then Reject lump is not important for you.
  3. Chocolate Hexen 2.3.0 (Win32): 1) Deathkings of the Dark Citadel. For me not possible to launch DM map 36, Chocolate go to quiet crash without visible errors in stderr.txt or stdout.txt. Vanilla Hexen normal open this map. 2) I discovered for myself the problem of the original game and Chocolate Hexen. For example: I'm -warp on Map 7 and Skill 3 from command line -> if I die on first map (without passing the first teleport) -> player always reborn on Map 1 and Skill 1. If I'm -warp on Map 1 and Skill 3 from command line, die on first map -> player always reborn on Skill 1. This is happens only for startup from command line, because if run game on skill 3 from main menu and die on first map -> player normally reborn on Skill 3. In my opinion, for this reason, two bad situations are possible for Chocolate Hexen: - player warp on Map 1 and Skill 3 (any skill > 1) from command line (used some PWAD's, for example) -> if he die on first map, player may simply not notice that he continues to play on skill 1; - not possible record correct first attempts demos (FDA), where the deaths of a player is common, including deaths on the first map. I see that Hexen+ resolve this situation, if warp on map from command line -> Hexen+ always forces creation of temp save game (base and reborn slot) and if player die on first map -> engine will use this reborn slot automatically and player always reborn on correct map and skill. In my opinion, it would be good to fix this moment in Chocolate Hexen.
  4. In 2 maps by BeeWen and in map by Impie I see zero length REJECT lump. I would like to know - for what purposes is it necessary or any of the source ports it requires? Which map editor creates such map files? Zero length REJECT lump will be a problem for the original Heretic engine + limit removing, especially for demo recording/playback. BeeWen, about an hour I tried to survive on the 'During the ceremony' and I succeeded. I like this map, thanks.
  5. Hexen 1.1, Map01, Mage, vanilla demo format: No monsters - 0:52 Pacifist - 1:07 Speed (skill-4) - 1:00 Speed (skill-5) - 1:03 Max (skill-4) - 3:11 Max (skill-5) - 3:24 For file names I use the classification from Heretic-N, well suited for Hexen too. kraflab, how do you think? But Hexen have 3 players classes, each class has its own skills names, for this reason I'm not sure how to name speed and Max categories for the database? For NoMo and Pacifist fits good, but other categories - need to think... If try to name it the same way, then for Mage: skill-4 'Warlock' and skill-5 'ArchiMage', then the names can be: WL speed/Max and AM speed/Max :) It's not very important of course, but it's good to come up with a classification for Hexen too. Respawn/Nightmare category will be empty, I think, because of Hexen specificity. As well as Max - a very conventional category is obtained, because Hexen is constantly respawn monsters during the game. Hexen01Mage.zip
  6. Grazza thanks, this full sort list is useful to me.
  7. Ribbiks, you can make the same sorted list for Heretic/Hexen wads?
  8. kb1, this is interesting technical information for me, thanks. Yes, in my opinion, this "Reject fix/padding" can be added to the Heretic in a similar form as it is now present in Doom/Strife games in Chocolate project. Of course, I understand, that Doom has a huge number of wads and a huge number of players vs Heretic/Hexen, perhaps for this reason it makes more sense and motivation that this fix now work for Doom game. But I do not see any technical problems if this solution will work in Heretic/Hexen too, even though this task is of low priority and will rarely be used in these games. Also, maybe it's worth adding the option - to disable this Reject fix/padding, that will rarely be used too, maybe only for tests or technical interest, but such a possibility will correspond to the overall project philosophy, in my opinion.
  9. Heretic, Arena, E3M8 NM Speed - 4:02 Forgot about Nightmare category. Arn402n.zip
  10. Game: Heretic Pwad: Arena https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/heretic/a-c/arena Map : E3M8 'Arena of D'Sparil' Vanilla demo format: SM Max - 3:38 BP Max - 4:12 Tyson - 8:13 Tyson - 11:43 For this map remains only pacifist, but I doubt that it is normally possible on this map vs D'Sparil, or there will be a very long demo that is not interesting to watch. Slow tyson maybe not for database, maybe only for someone's interest. Arena_PVS.zip
  11. Thanks, maybe it will be added in Heretic too. I do not quite understand what you mean under "emulating Rejects overflows", you probably mean another solution to this problem? What I see in the Chocolate Doom project more like as additional fix for Reject lump with small size, not any emulation, in my opinion. I'm test Chocolate Doom, took a random map for Doom2, cut Reject lump to zero - this Reject fix normal work, map itself work normally and demos, recorded on this test wad - playback correctly. Also, I see that PrBoom+ can playback normally this test demo recorded on Chocolate Doom. I added this Reject fix to the Heretic, this is also works fine here. I do not see much sense in Heretic demos, recorded with this fix, because they are not compatible with vanilla, only for a normal single game mode it makes some sense, in my opinion.
  12. I'm test problem with this 2 Heretic maps more deeper. I'm replace only Reject lump in this maps using the standard min-length Reject lump generated by node builder program. Demos recorded for this new test wads - playback normally on vanilla and Chocolate Heretic. Now I am sure that the problem for these maps is in these incorrect Reject lumps. Also, I see that Reject can be a problem not only for demo recording/playback as well as for a single game mode. I can see this well on the example of the second problem map (Sym.wad), where in a single game I notice that monsters sometimes do not see the player, they run around him and do not cause damage, i.e. it turns out - that map does not work correctly in single game mode if game engine has a problem at this moment with not correct Reject. I did not know that the Chocolate project already has a solution for this problem, now I see it in 2.3.0 source code - you do this for Doom and Strife games. I think, the Heretic also needs this decision, perhaps even better - to do it right away for all games, maybe for Hexen also to be found such problem vanilla maps with non-correct Reject lumps. --------------- Chocolate Hexen compatibility. I see a problem with map-11 from the IWAD: demos recorded on Hexen 1.1 playback with desync on Chocolate Hexen, demos recorded on Chocolate Hexen playback with desync on Hexen 1.1. Attaching my test demos. HexenMap11.zip
  13. I understood what you're talking about. The fact that different engines (vanilla vs choco) in different ways playback the same demo - I saw from the beginning. Even more, at first I found this problem (for me) from one more engine, the third one, I also sometimes work with the Heretic code as a hobby, but I'm more a Heretic fan than a programmer. This third engine - shows its own version of the playback with desync, in comparison with the vanilla and Chocolate :) In the usual situation, I mean - if this is an ordinary problem demo with desync - I agree, that we should observe completely the same playback on vanilla vs Chocolate, but it seems to me, in this case - there must be another reason. For me it even turns out that the vanilla Heretic 1.3 reproduces these demos in different ways, depending on the system on which I run it. For me Heretic 1.3 always equally and stable playback with desync these test demos - only under normal DOS7, under Win95 and WinME - It shows for me different playback variants. Maybe I found something: in these 2 problem maps I see REJECT lumps with zero length, I found some information about this and I think this could be a problem for the engine. axdoomer, most likely, we see for this maps a Heretic "Reject Overflow", what do you think, is it possible? I realized that for such questions - it is better to use Github, but for my old PC it's impossible, this site does not work correctly on my old browser, this is only my problem, of course.
  14. axdoomer I mean, if you record demo for this map on Chocolate Heretic - it will be playback with desync on Chocolate Heretic. Similarly, if you record on vanilla Heretic 1.3 - vanilla Heretic can't playback this demo without desync. I checked the rest of the maps from this author and found one more: https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/heretic/s-u/sym I'm open this maps in Doom Builder 1.68 and Eureka 1.21 -> check for any errors -> these editors do not show errors for these maps. Now I have 2 Heretic maps for which it is impossible record demos in vanilla format. Custom demo format is possible, I'm tested on old Doomsday - this port normally playback it own demos for this maps. This is a new situation for me, I did not know before that there could be such Heretic maps (old vanilla compatible PWAD's) for which it is not possible to record a vanilla demos. At the moment I do not know what's wrong in this maps for Heretic engine, for this reason I asked my question, maybe someone knows the answer. I attach my test demos, if anyone will be interested in this technical issue. VGA I've never seen web page or site with detailed information about vvHeretic patch, I think, all we are have is his txt file. I regularly use vvHeretic, maybe I can help if you have specific questions. Send me PM or you can use this topic for this, perhaps it will be more correct: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/39179-heretic-demos-non-demopack-and-nm/ HereticProblem.zip
  15. I found an interesting situation for me with Heretic when recording demo for E1M1 map from this wad: https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/heretic/g-i/irvel I'm recording on Heretic 1.3, vvHeretic4, Chocolate Heretic 2.3.0 - no one engine can not playback its own demo recorded on this map, they are all in desync. It's easy to check, for example, record demo 2-3 minutes long for this E1M1 map and try to playback it. For me they always go to desync around the first minute of playback. I think, I just do not know something, but I'm really interested - what's wrong in this map, that the original Heretic engine can't correctly reproduce game-world situation while playback its own demo for this map?