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Tarnsman

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Everything posted by Tarnsman

  1. Tarnsman

    Final Doom The Way id Did

    Final Doom The Way id Did: Final Doom The Way id Did will look to create two 32-level PWADs based on TNT: Evilution (Evilution The Way Team TNT Did) and The Plutonia Experiment (Plutonia The Way The Casalis Did). NOTE: Plutonia and Evilution DO NOT EXIST in "this universe" so do not make a map based off an existing Plutonia or Evilution map. The goal is to emulate the OVERALL BROAD IDEA not the final product. For example: if you want to emulate the idea behind Hunted the broad idea is not 'maze full of archviles' but 'concept map based around a single enemy' ====================================================================== General Rules: No slots will be reserved (even after the project is "full" there will be a bump period to give maps a chance to get in) and any maps that do not make the final cut will go into an overflow project (this does not mean the maps suck, there are many good maps in DTWID LE/D2TWID LE). Make observations in the thread so that other people may discuss them and agree/disagree with them. Emulate the style of the author you picked. Many mappers particularly the Casalis and Tom Mustaine had very particular styles, look at how they used textures, how they used shapes, the general idea behind their layouts, etc... Make original content not homages*. I am aware that several authors, particularly in Final Doom loved to repeat ideas and frequently rip themselves off, but just like Romero did when he recycled ideas (see all of Doom 2 and E4) they still managed to recycle shit in new ways. Even Tom Mustaine when flat out copying existing rooms from his other levels still slightly changed things up. Be willing to listen to feedback and rework things as needed, no one is immune from this not even project leaders, if you disagree with something argue the point, but always argue from a subjective standpoint about map intangibles and "feel" not an objective standpoint (sorry, no Plutonia map made entirely out of FIREBLU - mainly because FIREBLU doesn't exist in Plutonia). The goal of these projects is to emulate the styles of the original authors NOT to simply make a project "kind of like that", that does not mean every map must 100% follow some ironclad guidelines, more so the question should always be when attempting a concept "could the author X have done Y?". There are certain things that are objectively right and objectively wrong (if you submit a Milo map made out jagged triangles and blobs, you're doing it wrong) but beyond that the goal should be to put yourself in the mindset of the author and create something new. For some odd reason whatever editor they used for TNT and Plutonia had some oddities, like using 5/10 for sector heights and light levels. Now the authors of that era clearly understood that doom's textures were designed around 8/16 and as such beyond Tom Mustaine tried to emulate this (they did not always succeed and as such there are tons of random heights in TNT and Plutonia) the Casalis on the other hand got lazy and would use 5/10 for a lot of stuff so you can find things like 138 high sectors or what not in a lot of their maps, the odd sector heights and light levels do factor into how the map looks so try to emulate what your author used. Finally and most importantly, Leave it in™! 1996 was not an era of extreme polish, if you make a fuck up that could realistically not be caught by rushed testing in an effort to get id to pay you money? Leave it in™! PLEASE when submitting maps, do not submit them all as one lump, break them up and submit them as individual wads and tell me who each map is supposed to be in the style of. ("Plutonia" is not a style. Pick Dario or Milo.)Here is a list of what maps which authors made in which project ====================================================================== TNT General Guidelines: With TNT you have two choices. Either 1. You may attempt to emulate a map in the style of an existing TNT mapper OR someone who either did work with TNT or possibly could have worked with TNT (Jim Flynn, Dr. Sleep, anyone who contributed to the Master Levels). 2. You may attempt to make a map in YOUR OWN style but adjusted to 96 levels (pretend you have a shitty editor that means you can't detail every room or use 3D mode) as TNT has several authors who only ever made one map. You map must look like it could realistically be in TNT if you go this route. Only four maps are a dead lock. Map 01 must be a Tom Mustaine remake of D2TWID Map 01 (Mustaine loved remaking Map 01 of Doom 2, D2TWID is Doom 2 in this universe, so Mustaine loves remaking Map 01 of that) Maps 31 and 32 must be fun and exciting settings (DO NOT REMAKE CARIBBEAN AND PHARAOH, you're creative people, do something new) bonus points for shitty new textures, Map 30 must be an Icon of Sin map. Beyond that your maps slot can be very malleable. TNT's episodes do not have a very specific hard lock on themes, so as long as you're not making a pure hell map for E1, you're good. Do not flood the project with Drake O'Brien sized maps. TNT maps are not all massively huge and even the massively huge ones can realistically be beaten at 20 minutes tops. Do not fear bullshit progression and stupid shit that gets the player lost. This is TNT after all. Diversify your scale! TNT is a master at this. Big empty as shit rooms, tiny cramped corridors all in the same map? Yes please. Optional areas! TNT has a bunch of these please do not neglect them. If they are totally pointless optional areas? Even better.TNT's UV monster usage breakdown Dragonsbrethren's Write Up On Wakelin Jaws in Space's List of Wakelin Stuff T-Rex's Big List of Authors ====================================================================== TNT Submissions (this is for you to see what areas have the most submissions and what areas are lacking) : Map 01: Untitled - Jaws in Space (Tom Mustaine) Episode 1: Battery - Purist (Chris Bourke) Unnamed - Rottking (Jim Lowell) Burried Base - Inkie (Inkie) Radio Tower - Jazzmaster9 (Andrew Dowswell) Ending Point - A Gamma (Themself) Metal and Mortar - sincity2100 (Tom Mustaine) Nukage Complex - sincity2100 (Ty Halderman) Go Train! - Jmickel (Themself) Stonewall - Jazzmaster9 (Themself) Melting Point - Sudo459 (Themself) Pitchfork - Soundblock (Minadeo/Patenall) [MISSING RESOURCES] The Divide - Soundblock (Tom Mustaine) [MISSING RESOURCES] Substructure - Rottking (Themself) [http://www.mediafire.com/download/aia6mr2u26q1w38/TNTMap6updated.wad]Crusade[/url] - sincity2100 (???) Episode 2: Disclosure - sincity2100 (Ty Halderman) Hypocaust - Jimmy (André Arsenault) Unbeaten Path - Okabe (Themself) Disaster Station - sincity2100 (Tom Mustaine) Fissure - Rottking (Drake O'Brien) Technology Nightmare - sincity2100 (Themself) Corporate Branch - dpstatic (Themself) Hyperion - Jazzmaster (Themself) Map 15: Unnamed - Senile Samurai (Themself) Episode 3: Hell Hath Fury - Jimmy (Himself Sieben) The Coffin - Okabe (Themself) The Blood Asylum - sincity2100 (Themself) Red Purgatory - sincity2100 (Milo Casali) Hell's Odyssey - sincity2100 (Jimmy Sieben) Institution - Dpstatic (Drake O'Brien) Mountainside Something - Marcaek (Dean Johnson) Midnight Circus - Jazzmaster (Themself) Map 30: Map 31: Forgotten World - Joe667 (Milo Casali) Paradise - sincity2100 (Dario Casali) Map 32: ====================================================================== Plutonia General Guidelines: Plutonia is not a slaughter mapset. Plutonia maps rarely break 200 monsters (go look at the monster count for Go 2 It, I'll wait) the gameplay is made difficult by effective monster usage punctuated by a few hordes here and there. Plutonia is small. Most maps are not that big, often favoring compact tight layouts over massive sprawls. Even the big maps are not that long. This does not mean that big maps have no place, just remember for every Aztec, Tombstone, or Sewers there were 5 Omens, Compounds, NMEs, Congos, Cageds (Cagedes? Cagedi?), etc... Plutonia is samey. Really samey. EXTREMELY samey. BTSX samey. Dario and Milo really liked using the same textures for the same things across many levels regardless of whether or not it thematically fit where the level was "supposed to be". (If you read the story The Congo is apparently on Io.) They both also liked to use the same type of geometry over and over again, so look for consistent tropes in room shapes between Dario and Milo. Example: Milo loved curves. Plutonia is rip off city. Dario and Milo loved their homages, that's why I have that asterisk earlier. A ton of content is based off of existing IWAD material, either entire maps being remakes (Slayer, Final Frontier, Caged, Twilight, Anti Christ, Neurosphere) to borrowing concepts (Odyssey of Noises - Downtown : Impossible Mission - Doom E2 : Tombstone : Tom Hall Layouts) to simply ripping off rooms (Congo's rocket launcher room being in E2M2, NME's E2M1 rip off). As Doom and Doom 2 don't exist in this universe, DTWID and D2TWID will be your resources for lazy plagiarism, (I kid, they disguised their rip offs by doing something new with them, you should too). P.S. If you worked on DTWID/D2TWID and are going to be ripping off some of that content, please do so on content you did not work on, as to preserve the "this level as interpreted by the style of someone else" that Plutonia has going on. Yes I am aware you're working on a map in a different style already, but some of the "you" is inevitably going to creep in :P. Only two maps in Plutonia MUST be something. Map 30 must be a IOS map. Map 32 is going to be called Deal w/ It. Deal with it.Alfonzo write up on map homages in Plutonia #1 Tarnsman's write up on Plutonia #1: Layouts Tarnsman's write up on Plutonia #2: Milo and Dario-isms Tarnsman's write up on Plutonia #3: More Milio and Dario-isms Crate's write up on Plutonia gameplay and structure Plutonia's UV monster usage breakdown ====================================================================== Plutonia Submissions (this is for you to see what areas have the most submissions and what areas are lacking) : Map 01: Samba - sincity2100 (Milo Casali) Tiger - Gifty (Milo Casali) Sudan - dpstatic (Milo Casali) Episode 1: Anaconda - A.Gamma (Milo Casali) Blood Fobia - sincity2100 (Dario Casali) The Guardian - sudo495 (Milo Casali) Overdose - AD_79 (Dario Casali) Amazonia - sudo459 (Dario Casali) Arch Nemesis - dpstatic (Dario Casali) Waste - Gifty (Dario Casali) Episode 2: Damnation - A.Gamma (Milo Casali) The Painkiller - A.Gamma (Milo Casali) Nexus - sudo495 (Milo Casali) Narthex - Gifty (Milo Casali) Backwater - AD_79 (Milo Casali) Cryptic - sudo459 (Dario Casali) Blood Fobia - sincity2100 (Dario Casali) Map 15: Episode 3: Graveyard of the Gods - A.Gamma (Milo Casali) Hell Machine - A.Gamma (Milo Casali) Outpost - dpstatic (Dario Casali) Map 30: Map 31: Map 32: ====================================================================== Project Timetable: When it's done. This is not some "throw it together in 4 months and shove it out the door" project. It will be released when it's done, then checked, then double checked, then argued about, then bitched about, declared a horrible mess of rampant elitism that seeks to destroy the doom community, then argued about some more. (But no seriously, there is no rush so take your time and think about your map, or channel your inner me and make 15 maps in 2 weeks, it really doesn't matter, the project will be released when done. Not "full".) ====================================================================== IRC Channel irc.oftc.net #doomtwid If you feel like it. Discussion should primarily be kept to the thread, but IRC is nice so that there aren't 5,000 word essays about how much person X is nazi for implying that WOOD5 is used on north facing walls or whatever clogging up the thread. ====================================================================== NOTE: All relevant information, style discussions and whatnot will be linked here for easy access so people don't need to dig through 100 pages of shit. This goal of this project is to be accessible so please constantly check the OP for updates.
  2. Horizontally they can be at least up to 1024. Vertically they can't be taller than 128. I should have said taller not higher.
  3. Allow textures higher than 128 for vanilla. Flat alignment. Give the Spider Mastermind the lowest pain chance in the game.
  4. Tarnsman

    What are the dumbest map names you've heard of?

    The process typically starts with just finding a GBV song that sounds like a neat title and then vaguely making a map around that. Like for example "Cool Off Kid Kilowatt" sounded neat, there is a liquid texture called Coolant, Kilowatt sounds electrical. Boom computers and coolant. Occasionally someone will just make a map and we will find a title that vaguely fits it. And then rarely we will just pick the dumbest name possible for the map because we can.
  5. Tarnsman

    Torm's apology for the Doom community

    I appreciate that Tormentor took the time to respond and admit to it more or less. There are some aspects of his apology that I take issue with and question, but provided that Torm has come clean about the extent of the issue and we do not discover anything else moving forward that fits within this pattern, I don't think we need to litigate the specifics or get angry over it.
  6. I agree that's what Tormentor should do. It was more directed at the people who are saying we should not jump to conclusions until he has a chance to speak. Like he's going to say "oh this is just some wacky coincidence that my levels have geometry that lines up perfectly with other levels, multiple times, and the other instances of me lifting others work does not speak to any sort of pattern at all" and suddenly new clarity will be provided.
  7. Who is getting ahead of themselves? Someone discovered evidence of plagiarism. They posted said evidence of plagiarism. Other people posted other instances of Torm being less than ideal when it comes to usage of other people's work, demonstrating a clear pattern. And the general collective response has mostly been, "This is shitty, don't do that." What other more tempered response should there be from people? I haven't seen anyone calling for Torm to be banned, for his work to be taken down, that his name should be stripped from the records, that we should endlessly crap on him, or anything like that. Most hostility in this thread has been directed at bad faith attempts to defend the action that are more or less complete nonsense. The only people bringing any judgement about moral character into this are the people saying he's a good guy (although it's very hard to not look at plagiarism as a moral issue).
  8. For everyone saying things like "we need to hear his side". Like legitimately what do you expect him to say that's going to change anything? He has a paypal button and his website asks for donations when you go to it. So yeah...
  9. Chillax was renamed to Chillax in response to people calling it out for said plagerism. Quite possibly the worst example to give of people not caring about this before. Edit: It was pmhl who asked that it be given a new name as to not make it appear that he made it, which is where the name "Chillax" a pretty antagonistic response to the request, came from. Which is a pretty bad example still none the less.
  10. It is different in practice. Sampling is a legitimate thing in art and it's quite a bit different. As you say yourself the intent is to make an obvious tribute. You're not copying obscure sections of a map to fill something out. If a musician samples a well known song to build something new from it that's quite a bit different than an artist lifting an unknown underground song, doing very minimal alterations to it, and posting it as their own work to fill out a soundtrack. If someone decided to release Return to Neptune Y and very clearly took the base entrance from E1M1 of BTSX and then after that did a lot of their own content that built off of the very clear and cheeky homage while acknowledging it as tribute that would be a lot less offensive than someone copying four random sectors out of the same map to put in another map that has no connection to BTSX, no mention of BTSX, and is being presented as its own thing. The crux of what people are mad about is that it's areas that realistically did not need to be plagiarized, provide no new context, call back, or other value from their inclusion, and fit into a larger pattern of Torm doing this sort of stuff that speaks to a level of artistic laziness.
  11. Slayer is not an exact replica of Circle of Death. Here are the two maps side by side and overlayed. Slayer *is* clearly a remake of Circle of Death with the style and personality of a new author. It's not copy and pasted and slightly re textured. It's a completely different thing. Inspiration is fine. Recontextualizing something is fine. Neither of those things are copy and pasting things from other people's work and barely changing it.
  12. No I would not have done the same. Draw your own sectors, it's that simple. Even when you're making a map that's specifically evoking a previous map you should still modify it enough to make it its own thing and have your own touch applied to it. If Tormentor was taking a well known early Egyptian themed map and "sampling" it to recontextualize it in a Zdoom context with clear inspiration where you could see what he changed, that would be one thing. This is not that, this is taking pretty standard shapes from another source and using them to fill out map length in a way that makes it hard to justify as anything but pure laziness.
  13. People worrying about things like "the line" are completely missing the point. All art is created on the back of work that came before it. Be it painting, writing, music, or even doom mapping. There are a litany of inspirations present in basically every major doom project. Tom Mustaine was famously told by American McGee to get his own geometry after he made his version of The Inmost Dens. The Inmost Dens would make another appearance in Plutonia as Neurosphere and from there act as the basis for two maps literally named after it in The Inmost Dens II and The Inmost Dens III found in MM and HR2 respectively. Its influence has gone beyond that. Maps like Helix in PRCP being continuations of Nuerosphere's legacy and even more direct things such as Flooded Library by Jimmy in D2TWID. Plutonia itself is a constant barrage of Doom 1 and Doom 2 levels reimagened through the Casali's style. None of these things have ever caused a commotion or an issue. Because that's not the same thing as this at all. This sort of thing is not homage or inspiration or anything of the sort. Look at the shapes that he copied directly. It's not some super intricate thing where he wanted to use it as a reference point for general shape and size. They're standard size mostly orthogonal sectors that if it wasn't for the fact that there are multiple of them in the same map clearly directly copied, one could easily argue are so standard that it's hard to say it's plagiarized. It is directly copying portions of other work, that are not immediately recognizable to evoke the notion of clear homage (the same way as say Map 32 of Plutonia) and then using them to just fill out small portions of a map. This is more a product of laziness than artistic verve. Just draw your own sectors.
  14. Speedmap. Map Name: Alfonzo Allows Himself To Be Mugged Because He's Such A Nice Guy https://www.dropbox.com/s/vgk64cthtuioygi/TARNS-ISO.wad?dl=1
  15. Tarnsman

    Project DARK (SCYTHE) - Now on /idgames!

    Yes Please
  16. Tarnsman

    TNT 2: Devilution (Clean thread, new updates)

    I'm just going to be honest with you. This is just Duke Nukem Forever 2.
  17. Tarnsman

    ion fury is out

    Anyways to actually discuss the game instead of yet another worthless dumpster fire that is modern political discourse. I'm really enjoying the environments, weapons, and general feel of the game. However the game has one gigantic overpowering flaw that really hampers the experience. The bestiary. Even by build game standards of bad enemy selection. So far the enemies can be broken down into 4 different hit scan enemies that basically all perform the same function, 3 annoying head things that exist to justify the Loverboy's alt-fire, and worthless centipedes. I am lumping the grenade guys in with the crossbow guys, shotgun guys, and machinegun guys because even their grenades don't feel all that different with how they're used and how their AI behaves. Enemies also tend to go into ambush stances way too frequently. I feel like with some modifications and tweaks to usage the existing enemies could be diversified because like the homing missile spam scrags sound fantastic on paper but they're dispatched almost as easily as the quadcopter heads so it's just more Loverboy fodder.
  18. Tarnsman

    ion fury is out

    No one is being forced to be trans. Go find me one person who is being forced by their parents to be trans. Seriously. I'll wait. In terms of "forcing themselves" upon people, really all trans people ask from other people is to be addressed the way they want to be addressed. If that is a bridge too far for you, then you better never call your parents mom and dad because mom and dad aren't their given legal names. You either are woefully ignorant of the reality of trans individuals because you have next to no experience with them or you're engaging in purposefully bad faith efforts to hide your bigotry.
  19. Tarnsman

    ion fury is out

    There's nothing naive about actual objective facts. Trans people have a high suicide rate because they spend most of their lives listening to chuckle fucks like you tell them that they're abominations. (Usually the same people who then turn around a whine about the disenfranchisement of young white males and how it's leading them to violence or whatever. Because god forbid someone says something bad about a man.) Either you genuinely believe these things, in which case I would encourage you to expose yourself to more trans individuals and their life experiences, so that you can gain perspective away from bad faith propaganda. Or you just hate transpeople and need an excuse to make yourself feel good about it because you don't have the balls to just admit you hate something because it makes you feel uncomfortable.
  20. Tarnsman

    ion fury is out

    Instead of celebrating that some wonderful people from our community were able to profit off of their hard work and talent and release an exceptional product, we will forever have their efforts tainted by this experience. It's the sad reality of this situation. It's even more unfortunate that these decent people are being forced to answer for actions other than their own. We're having a discussion about what we feel someone like Cage's actions should be when Cage has straight up no responsibility to do a single fucking thing in this situation. Bro made some great art and should be profiting off of it. There no longer is allowed to be a gray area on things particularly when they're things that honestly are kind of super shitty. Like outrage and cancel culture is a toxic thing that's often filled with bad faith efforts and general assbagery. I could dig through the logs of some very progressive trans-friendly places and find plenty of shit that we could deem cancel worthy. A good friend just today expressed anxiety over a joke that a conversation from her discord was going to be screenshotted and posted to twitter. Unfortunately speaking out against it is difficult because it makes people think you're agreeing with their horrendous toxic shit and empowering it. The middle ground between "you're being ridiculous chill out" and "we should openly support fascism" has basically disappeared. The high suicide rates for trans individuals is almost entire a result of a lack of social acceptance and family support. There is a big difference between a parent forcing their child into a gender and a parent allowing their child to express themselves as they wish and a lot of the time the concern for parent's supposedly "forcing their child to be trans" is bad faith concern trolling because a parent is letting their child express themselves, which reduces the chance that they're going to kill themselves later in life.
  21. I don't think it's possible to argue that the mapsets wouldn't be treated differently if they weren't "official" so to speak if only because there would be an objective change in the level of exposure to said mapsets. John Romero releasing a mapset is going to draw some more eyes than some random guy releasing a mapset. People are always going to form opinions about stuff based on that and there always are going to be more opinions and expectations when it comes to something that gets broader recognition in that way. However I don't think beyond that aspect people's opinions on the sets would really be that drastically different. Obviously anyone who was "disappointed" by Sigil likely would not be disappointed if it wasn't a hyped release but I doubt the aspects that they disliked that resulted in the disappointment would suddenly be things they enjoyed and the other way around. No one is suddenly praising aspects of map making they hate just because John Romero's name is attached to it or it's something packaged with an official Doom release. People do sometimes exaggerate the level of how different from community output these mapsets are (as evidenced by the post praising 'catwalks' as unique) but it's not like someone is talking about how The Chasm or The Pit are the worst levels in Doom 2 and then turning around and talking about the brilliance of Sigil. If you look at the things someone does or does not praise about these mapsets and then look at the general style of doom level design they typically appreciate or disparage, you'll find a lot of consistency.
  22. Tarnsman

    The DWIronman League dies to: Base Ganymede

    I don't think anyone is suggesting that handcams or streams become the norm. Just that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. With something like standard speedrunning you have thousands upon thousands attempts so skill ends up shining through at the end because you end up with an average of all the items skill can't control for. With the ironman runs, particularly blind ironman runs, the things that skill can't control for become a lot more of a factor. There are plenty of things in doom that qualify as 'random bullshit' that can end even the most skilled of runs. Avoiding this pitfall in 1 of your 100 attempts that you happen to post is believable. Doing it in 28 of your 30 attempts is much, much less. This is the critical component of Zeromaster's protest. This isn't simply someone being really good at Doom, it's someone being improbably lucky in a way that's increasingly unlikely as it continues to happen. And if the response to this is to drop the dramatic-reading-of-the-year candidate and accuse Zeromaster of all people of jealousy, that's not exactly a good look.
  23. Tarnsman

    The DWIronman League dies to: Base Ganymede

    @ReaperAA Nah, sometimes art deserves to be appreciated and the creator thanked for their contribution to history. I will say, Bloodite's comparisons to things like J4rio's previously thought to be impossible Tyson runs doesn't hold up. Those are the culmination of countless failed runs. Where as ironman is supposed to be a singular attempt. That is where the contention comes from. Someone being able to pull off an insane feat through constant struggle and attempts is a lot different than consistently performing at that level on single attempts, often supposedly blind.
  24. Tarnsman

    The DWIronman League dies to: Base Ganymede

    This post really deserves to be engraved on like a ten foot tall stone tablet and placed at the entrace of some sort of Hall of Fame for legendary posting.
  25. Tarnsman

    The DWIronman League dies to: Base Ganymede

    I'd like to thank Bloodite for providing the framework for my new favorite copypasta.
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