Omega Tyrant replied to dobu gabu maru's topic in WAD DiscussionLate to starting this, but I played through Ray Mohawk's Manic Monday today, and so I'll post what I thought of each map. I played on UV, pistol starting + 100%ing every map with no saves, they'll be rated for how much I liked them* and how difficult^ I found them on a scale of 0-10. Map01 House By The Bay: 5* | 2^ - No deaths: I didn't like having to run through such a big open area with a bunch of hitscanners, even if most of them were Zombiemen. Gave a difficulty rating of 2 because of that, as bad hitscan luck could feasibly kill you if you don't know where you're going, even if the chances are low. Otherwise was a decent map to mow through, with some overarming near the end with the two megaarmors. Map02 The Bridge: 6* | 2^ - No deaths: It is still a bit more open than I would like for a hitscan-heavy map, but it offers more cover opportunities without having to slow down much and health was plentiful enough to heal off the hitscan pot shots. Monsters teleporting behind you near the exit caught me a bit offguard, but being near full stack in health and armor, it was no real threat. Also found the Berserk secret early this time, and man, one-shotting a Revenant with it was crazy, didn't think the knife would be that strong. Map03 We Love Pollution: 2* | 4^ - 4 deaths: I did not like this map, the beginning is a hitscan hell, starting in an open room, then proceeding to a huge open area, and a lot of hitscanners that aren't mostly Zombiemen this time. There isn't a lot of health near the start either, especially without the megarmor, leading to several deaths near the start. The first time I cleared out everything before the building I was nearly dead, until I found the Berserk secret inside the building, at which point the rest of the map became free to beat, and the amount of Shotgunning you had to do veered into tedium. Didn't like how plain the map looked nor its midi either. Map04 Little Oasis: 4* | 3^ - 1 death: Another map that is too hitscan-heavy and open for my tastes, plus its difficulty is front-loaded and that secret Invisibility comes too late to be helpful. Also are you supposed to be able to hit the Archvile at the start without him being able to retaliate? I could take him out easily with the knife before opening him up, which I suspect wasn't supposed to be cheeseable that way. Otherwise don't have much to say. Map05 Big Room Full Of Baddies: 5* | 3^ - No deaths: Big room full of hitscanners... but it wasn't as bad as I was expecting, and the green armor right at the start was nice to stave the hitscan pot shots off. Also this time the Invisibility was given at a useful time, the red door ambush with the Chaingunners would have killed me for sure without it. And that exit door trap could have been a startle, but the computer area map gave it away. A decent map I don't feel strongly about either way. Map06 The Maw of Industry: 7* | 4^ - 1 death: I shouldn't have died but I played too recklessly around the second Archvile and the hitscanners around it, ah well. Ray Mohawk ended on a good note, the combat here provided a decent challenge without being obnoxious with hitscanners, and the quad-Cyberdemon finale was engaging. Mostly wasted the Invulnerability so I had to deal with all four of them alive, and had to do a bunch of SSGing against two of the Cybers after some bad BFG shots. Docked a point though for making the starting platform inaccessible after you jump off it, while putting an important secret there that missing would make the map much tougher. Also what was the point of the open huge nukage pool with the lone Caco on other side of the starting platform, other than to kill curious players? (granted any player who jumps down there won't really lose any progress, but still) OVERALL: 4.83* (we'll round it up to 5*) | 3^ - Wasn't much a fan of Ray Mohawk's first outing, as its maps, particularly its heavy usage of hitscan enemies, do not jibe with my tastes. Still was fun for burning a couple of hours, and I did like the knife, later found out on the last map it could two-shot a fucking Baron when berserked. A shame it ends up underutilized with the disproportionately large amount of hitscanners dissuading melee combat, hopefully the sequel gives you more opportunity to berserk knife stuff. Difficulty-wise it was a pretty easy romp aside from a couple hitscan-heavy underprepped starts, with some mildly spicy moments thrown in.
The Baron's alert sound in PSX Doom/Doom 64, that is how you make a monster sound intimidating. PC Doom Baron sounds like a kitten in comparison. The PSX Doom/Doom 64 Pain Elemental's alert sound also, hearing it in Doom 64 is sure to send shivers down your spine. And the gibbing sound, no matter the version, is of course the most satisfying sound to exist.
My map ratings for Ultimate Doom, on a 0-10* scale for how much I like the map and 0-10^ scale for how difficult I found it. An explanation of the scale can be found here. Difficulty here is on UV with fast monsters and Pistol starting every map, the difficulty rating with normal monsters would generally be somewhere around half (lower end for maps with heavy hitscan usage).
EPISODE 1 - Knee Deep In The Dead:
Map |Rating |Difficulty|Comments
E1M1 Hangar |7* |2^ |10* as a first map ever played, but isn't as engaging for the experienced
E1M2 Nuclear Plant: |4* |2^ |
E1M3 Toxin Refinery |9* |4^ |Probably the best utilization of secrets in commercial Doom
E1M9 Military Base |5* |6^ |Hard start and resources aren't plentiful even with the Chaingun secret
E1M4 Command Control |5* |3^ |The start can be lethal, but the rest of the map is free
E1M5 Phobos Lab |10* |4^ |Suspense is perfect for this map, though would still rate it a 10 without it
E1M6 Central Processing |8* |5^ |That ending room is intimidating with fast monsters
E1M7 Computer Station |6* |4^ |
E1M8 Phobos Anomaly |5* |2^ |Aged poorly, but is so iconic and atmosphere is still top notch
AVERAGE: 6.56* | 3.67^ : I agree with the common opinion that Episode 1 is the best, and is still fun even with its limited enemy variety, making it farther impressive
EPISODE 2 - The Shores Of Hell:
Map |Rating |Difficulty|Comments
E2M1 Deimos Anomaly |4* |3^ |
E2M2 Containment Area |4* |2^ |Not a fan of the crate maze and rest of map is boring
E2M3 Refinery |2* |5^ |Rating tries to ignore the horrible choice of Intermission for its track
E2M4 Deimos Lab |7* |4^ |
E2M5 Command Center |3* |5^ (6^) |Second difficulty rating is for 100%, the secret exit is bullshit with fast monsters
E2M9 Fortress Of Mystery |1* |4^ |A joke of a map, but a room of fast Cacos is pretty deadly
E2M6 Halls Of The Damned |10* |6^ |The closest the original Doom gets to survival horror
E2M7 Spawning Vats |5* |4^ |
E2M8 Tower Of Babel |5* |2^ |Aged terribly, but gets credit for the iconic first experience with it
AVERAGE: 4.56* | 3.89^ (4.00^ for 100%) : Map quality becomes a lot more inconsistent, and Halls Of The Damned carries the episode for me
EPISODE 3 - Inferno:
Map |Rating |Difficulty|Comments
E3M1 Hell Keep |1* |2^ |Even fast monsters can't make this map remotely engaging
E3M2 Slough Of Despair |4* |5^ |Would be quite brutal without prior knowledge
E3M3 Pandemonium |7* |4^ |
E3M4 House Of Pain |8* |4^ |The difficulty would notch up if you don't know to gun for Invulnerability at start
E3M5 Unholy Cathedral |3* |4^ |
E3M6 Mt. Erebus |8* |5^ |Sandy shown he can make a good sandbox map here, what happened in Doom 2?
E3M9 Warrens |4* |3^ |Best secret map conceptually, but half of it is still Hell Keep and has a softlock
E3M7 Limbo |5* |4^ |Seems quite unpopular but I don't hate it, rather survival horrorish on Pistol start
E3M8 Dis |1* |1^ |Arguably even easier with fast monsters, since the Cacos and Baron infight better
AVERAGE: 4.56* | 3.56^ : I find it on par with the prior episode, with again inconsistent map quality
EPISODE 4 - Thy Flesh Consumed:
Map |Rating |Difficulty|Comments
E4M1 Hell Beneath |3* |6^ |I like what it was going for, but feels too RNG with heavy Shotgunner usage
E4M2 Perfect Hatred |9* |6^ |A masterclass on how to effectively utilize the Doom 1 bestiary
E4M9 Fear |3* |5^ |Action is way too front-loaded, and those teleporters are death
E4M3 Sever The Wicked |6* |4^ |If you don't grab Invuln ASAP at start you die, but is otherwise not hard
E4M4 Unruly Evil |2* |4^ |Has a bit of teeth on Pistol start/fast monsters, but still such a nothing map
E4M5 They Will Repent |5* |4^ |
E4M6 Against Thee Wickedly |8* |7^ |No armor on UV is overly harsh, should have been the final map
E4M7 And Hell Followed |4* |3^ |Such a misuse of Sinister here
E4M8 Unto The Cruel |4* |3^ |Why was this the final map?
AVERAGE: 4.89* | 4.67^ : Still inconsistent map quality, and difficulty is erratic too, but the lows aren't as bad
OVERALL AVERAGE: 5.14* / 3.94^ : Episode 1 certainly carries the first Doom, and there are a fair share of awful maps, though there are still gems after Episode 1 that hold up today. While notoriously easy normally, it does provide a fair challenge with fast monsters, aside from a few spots not being properly balanced for it.
Gold medal: Phobos Lab
Silver Medal: Halls Of The Damned
Bronze Medal: Perfect Hatred
Just missed the podium: Toxin Refinery
Gonna also rank the Playstation exclusive maps here, with the difficulty being for fast monsters on a Pistol start:
Map |Rating |Difficulty|Comments
Hell Gate |3* |2^ |Even with fast monsters this wasn't any challenging, but it's inoffensive
Hell Keep |5* |9^ |Very mixed feelings, Hell Beneath was at least nice enough to give you armor
Twilight Descends |10* |5^ |My absolute favorite commercial map, a much more fitting penultimate map than E4M7
The Marshes |4* |3^ |Aged bad like any Cyberdemon duel map but was a nice secret in context of PSX Doom
Threshold Of Pain |9* |8^ |Final battle is brilliant, and is absolutely brutal with fast monsters
The Mansion |8* |4^ |Finally a worthy secret map, looks great, unique, memorable, and is fun.
Club Doom |6* |2^ (5^) |Second rating is if you don't cheese it and fight the Revenants in the open.
Redemption Denied|2* |2^ (3^) |Second rating is if you intentionally avoid making the Masterminds infight, terrible final map but at least it's not the Icon Of Sin
Some of these PSX maps are certainly worth checking out, whether in their individual recreations out there or through the PSXCE. A big shame these maps weren't actually a part of the original games, Twilight Descends and Threshold Of Pain made such a vastly better ending to the first Doom (even if the latter uses Doom 2 stuff), while the Mansion and Club Doom shown what the secret maps should have been like. Also would have loved if these maps got more speedrunning attention.
I'm rating the Sigil maps here too, with difficulty also being based on Pistol starting with fast monsters:
Episode 5 - Sigil:
Map |Rating |Difficulty|Comments
E5M1 Baphomet's Demense |6* |4^ |
E5M2 Sheol |5* |5^ |Telefragging the Cyber is death if you mistime it but worth it
E5M3 Cages Of The Damned |4* |5^ |That Berserk + Supercharge secret really takes the bite out of the later half
E5M4 Paths of Wretchedness |6* |6^ |That crusher section is so damn nerve-wracking
E5M5 Abaddon's Void |10* |7^ |One of the most oppressive maps I ever played and has the action to match
E5M6 Unspeakable Persecution|7* |7^ |The Cyber labyrinth at the end is a really cool setpiece
E5M9 Realm Of Iblis |4* |6^ |Reeks of being a reject map like the Doom 1 secret maps
E5M7 Nightmare Underworld |8* |8^ |This map is deadly all the way through and resources will always be tight
E5M8 Halls of Perdition |5* |6^ |Not an inspired final map but is ok
AVERAGE: 6.11* / 6.00^
May not have met the lofty expectations it had but still a really solid piece of work, Romero did succeed in crafting an oppressive-feeling hell atmosphere, and shown his skills at getting challenge out of the Doom 1 bestiary without resorting to bullshit measures; even without fast monsters I found Sigil on par with Plutonia in difficulty, if not harder. I do appreciate when maps do make resource management a serious factor, which Sigil does well without ever going as extreme as Hell Beneath and PSX Hell Keep did.
Gonna start posting map ratings here, rating maps on how much I like them and how difficult I found them, on a scale of 0-10. Making this initial post for future reference to explain the scale.
On the map rating scale:
10 = All-time favorite, the map sticks with me and I find little to no fault with it
9 = Amazing, a highly memorable map I love but it is missing a little something
8 = Great, a standout map I really enjoy, with a few blemishes
7 = Good, an enjoyable map well above average, but does have a clear flaw knocking it down or isn't the most memorable
6 = Solid, a fun map that is flawed or doesn't push the envelope
5 = Average, the map has a mix of good things and bad things, but I'm still enjoying it
4 = Mediocre/Subpar, the map's flaws are too much or it's overly banal, deterring a good time
3 = Poor, the map is outright bad or boring, with a redeeming factor or two
2 = Awful, the map is actively unpleasant to play or incredibly insubstantial, but at least it's not the worst thing
1 = Irredeemable, nothing good at all I can say about the map
0 = D!ZONE
On the difficulty scale:
0 = Virtually impossible to die
1 = Can run through the map braindead
2 = Still very easy, but it'll invoke some brain activity
3 = Should have a 100% clear rate, but I can die if I'm overly reckless or sloppy
4 = Will often clear first try blind, but death is a real possibility
5 = Clearing first try is tough, and I can die even after knowing the map well
6 = Won't clear first try without exceptional play or luck, and will likely take several attempts to single segment
7 = First try clear is out of the question, will require an hour+ of attempts to beat saveless
8 = Very difficult, this map will leave me stuck for multiple hours but is still very much within my abilities
9 = Trying to beat this saveless will take up much of the day for me
10 = About the limit of my skill, I can beat it saveless but will take a ton of grinding
Anything over 10 = I have to use saves, the higher the number the more I have to savescum
Also a note about the difficulty rating, frontloaded difficulty will be weighed a lot less. Like if a map has a hot start that will kill me 80% of the time, but I'm guaranteed to breeze through the rest of the map if I survive the first minute, I won't rate its difficulty more than a 4 or even 3 despite it technically requiring many attempts, as it ultimately requires little more time investment. It will be especially relevant when I play with fast monsters, where hot starts are often disproportionately lethal but then the rest of the map can end up lacking any teeth.
So I've been using the SFX addon for non-PSXCE uses and it has been working, except there are no footstep sounds. Is there a way to modify it so that it keeps the footstep sounds when loaded outside of PSXCE?
Don't know if you're doing bugfixes for the addons, but in case you are, in Fall Of Triton I found a rather blatant softlock in bonus map 3, Triton Plant, where the switch to open the door out of the blue key area can only be activated once. So if you go back in there after activating it, the door out will close behind you and you won't be able to open it back up. I've also fully updated, so I can confirm it's not an old version issue.
At Doom's Gate is only decent, and in general the metal and other upbeat songs in Doom's soundtrack are mediocre or outright annoying with a few exceptions. The songs that establish a real atmosphere or fill you with outright dread like Sign Of Evil and Suspense are where Doom's soundtrack mostly shined.
Speaking of the Mastermind, I've reenabled it in my playthrough of PSX Final Doom, and in TNT Map20: Main Processing, the Mastermind is stuck in its teleport room, so it'll never teleport in and requires activating no clip to kill it. I'm still playing 3.1.3 though, so if this issue did get fixed in 3.2 or 3.3, nevermind then.
I thought The Marshes was decent as a secret map in the context of PSXDoom, since the only other maps with the Cyberdemon in the port was Tower Of Babel and Tricks And Traps, the latter of which really isn't much of a Cyberdemon fight at all. So this map offered PSX players another opportunity to fight the Cyber straightup, in a sandboxey arena that provided various ways to do so. Of course like nearly any map with just a Cyber and a handful of enemies it hasn't aged well, but I had fun with it back in the day as a Doom noob who only had the Playstation port to play. Also the "re" in the map is the initials of the map's creator, Randy Estrella.
So after finishing PSXDoom, I booted up PSX Final Doom, and noticed all my settings are back to the default. Is there a way I can copy over all my PSXDoom settings so I don't need to manually adjust everything back to how I had it?
Oh so that was a bug, didn't know if every pellet of a Shotgun blast doing the same damage was a bug or how the Playstation Shotgun actually worked. Was annoying how often Imps were surviving a point-blank Shotgun blast or even two, and how even Shotgunners could survive all the pellets when that shouldn't be possible (which boned me quite a few times with fast monsters). Ended up commenting out the hitscan weapons' A_Fire functions to revert them back to their PC behavior, which fixed the malfunctioning RNG.
So I completed the Ultimate Doom episode and everything was running fine for me, but upon starting SIGIL, the FPS suddenly tanked to sub-20. I was confused on why the FPS was suddenly so bad and tinkering around with the graphic and display settings didn't seem to change much, but then I found just turning off world ambient sounds brought the FPS back up to 60. Guess SIGIL maps have too much lava for weak CPUs to handle world ambient sounds? Anyway just posting about this so if anyone else also encounters an FPS drop in SIGIL, they'll know how to fix it.
I copied over the default Revenant PSXCE data and then tried this to make sure nothing else was changed, and after thorough testing I noticed a strange result, where it would either just shoot homing missiles, or it would alternate between fast missiles and slow missiles, with neither homing, and which "mode" it spawned in seems random, while making the Revenant enter its pain state can make it switch between the two behaviors. I haven't touched anything else in the PSXCE pk3 nor have I touched the GZDoom pk3, so I'm not sure what the problem is on my end. Thanks for the help though.
I tried this and unfortunately the Revenant will still only fire homing missiles.
So I figured out how to restore the Revenant's movement speed, but am having difficulty restoring it alternating between homing and non-homing missiles. I looked up the scripting info, and have tried tinkering with its missile's and A-Tracer's zscript data, but it either just fires homing missiles regardless, or alternates between fast and slow missiles with neither homing. What do I modify to properly restore its PC missile behavior?