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Doesn't Doom take place in the future? People really do think they're going to get away with gassing all of us, don't they... To reflect a more plausible future, Doomguy should instead of being some great white alpha cipher, be a brown cyborg genderfluid all-purpose cat brained androbot. with cat ears and a tail. and retractable wings. The problem with cultural conservative reactionaries is that they have no vision of the future, zero. No acceptance of progress. And blinders to the present. An imagination that is for shit.

Edit by esselfortium: I split off this tangent from the Megawad Club's BTSX E2 playthrough discussion, since it's gotten pretty involved and off-topic there. Feel free to continue the discussion here. I will never understand why so many Doom players retreat at every opportunity. That's so boring. I suppose us playtesters should have constantly been reminding ourselves that half the players of the wad wouldn't actually be out to have a good time, and were instead bent on playing cowardly.

every comment in this thread

You. I like you. Welcome to the NHK and Steins Gate are two of my favorite anime of all time, they are pretty damn amazing in my opinion. So I wanna make some recs too, hopefully not to overwhelm but give you food for thought. A very dramatic and artistic in terms of writing and storytelling series is Mawaru Penguindrum. It's hard to even describe what this show is actually about, just know that there is always more to characters and the story than you think at first. The plot unfolds like a wondrous flower into something truly unique to behold. Another is Erased. I am reluctant to spoil the plot for this one, even for the first episode. Basically there is a very normal real world show with a strange power that rarely occurs for the main character that gets the plot moving. It's about using the very little means at your disposal to overcome almost insurmountable circumstance and odds to prevent children from falling to a predator. The main character definitely doesn't have plot armor in this one. And last i'll toss Evangelion into the mix here. You've probably heard of it, even if you haven't I'd rather not describe it much. It is, underneath the facade of a standard mecha and school show, a profound character study and breakdown of the human condition from multiple angle amidst a plot that is so involving and mysterious that people are literally still trying to figure out aspects of it. Very very often has been imitated and referenced but had so much more to offer than those others realized or served up themselves. You'll need to add the movie End of Evangelion at the end btw. Check these out, really! Oh and uh if you want a comedy too Nichijou. It's incredible.

yay!

dew you forgot Map 22 when it's the one that sucks the most! Come on give it some public shaming please.

It's okay, 40oz got this. He know the solution to problems, I will be student. *sits and watches patiently with awe*

+++ Well, I suppose you can leave my vote for AV intact then if you're okay with that and since it looks like it's going to be down to the wire. Thank you.

Map 25 I liked the use of darkness and strobe in this map a lot. Didn't care for the maze parts at all, just don't like mazes. Map 26 Nope. Map 27 Lesse, tons of enemies attacking me and not having any fun having to kill any of them. Run past stuff, get killed by Archviles. Annoying. I think I must be burnt out on the game for a while or something. Guess I'll drop out of the club for a bit, might not play next month either. On that note... +++ Please feel free to eliminate my vote for AV from the final tally; if I'm not going to play I shouldn't get a say. Sorry.

+++ Alien Vendetta It's time to do this!

Map 24 Once again went for occasionally killing things, which I guess I'll keep doing going forward at least in this mapset. Not much to say here at all, it's pretty straightforward. If I can't come up with stuff to say what am I doing cluttering up the DWMC thread? Hopefully just in a rut.

Map 23 I did not care for the start at all. I may just be in a shitty mood, as the map seemed fine in layout and combat, but I just did not feel like playing my usual kill-em-all style. Instead I avoided combat unless it irritated and killed me and I couldn't generally proceed without doing some of it. I wish I could say i was speedrunning or even attempting that but instead it was just me being lazy and um estranged from doom. Took me over 11 minutes to beat the thing, if that gives you any idea. Some things I definitely 'noped' at included the start Nobles, the annoying-to-kill Cyber, the Archvile/Mancubus room, the popup Revenant horde near the teleporter switch and the three PE's around a corner shortly after. Also near the end I just tanked a bunch of damage from the popup Mancubus before it moved out of the way so i could dart around and exit. Maybe i'm getting burnt out on Doom? It could just be Estranged getting to me, but I dunno as again I think this was a fine map.

The backpack withdrawal in BTSX E2? You have me to blame for that primarily, actually. It was a simplistic approach to the problem we were witnessing of continuous players having a ridiculous glut of ammo. Heck if it were up to me the ammo would have been strictly doled out and every map end with a death exit, but the withhold-the-backpack approach was taken as a marginal step in the right direction instead. Map 22 The problem with this map isn't the lack of a backpack. If anything it's that there is so much damn ammo all over the place that it's ridiculous. You can just ignore it, you'll never go wanting for ammo even if you let the Archviles resurrect all sorts of crap. No, the real serious problem with this map is progression indications and layout. Left the Cyber alive because there's no convenient way to kill it, I've proven to myself I can kill the things enough times. Anyway took me way too long to figure out where i should go at the end, but the hint in Demon of the Well's post about staying high up helped me out. I just did not care for this map at all.

Yep. Dev team is stubbornly holding that they will not release either out of beta until at least 15 months go by without inquiry into the matter.

Map 21 It's a bit early, but I just played this and may as well comment. It's... different I guess. There's a whole lot of nothing to this map. It's basically a speedrun-only type affair; there's ammo but it's just a BFG and some cells; add to this a bulletbox and it doesn't take much number crunching to see that there isn't enough on the map to kill the various monsters littered about it. So 100% kills is out of consideration. There is health in the form of a soulsphere; other than that the place is bereft of supplies. Also there's one secret and you start on it, so that's dumb. Basically what you do in this map is you either choose to go to the BFG then proceed to kill the Mastermind and hit a switch it's guarding then bolt for the exit, OR you try a no-kill run just trying to make it to the switch and to the exit without getting perforated by the Mastermind. I chose the latter, and it's fairly easy just takes a little don't-target-me luck. I think I've said all there is I could say about this map.

Um, one person wouldn't be able to obliterate the need for medicine. That person would probably have to just settle for going around doing things that can't already be done. And besides it's not like I'd live forever or anything. I think you're vastly overestimating the effectiveness of a single person on a worldwide population of billions.

We're already quite lazy; anyway I don't see how cancer, spinal cord damage, missing limbs, the need for replacement organs, and on and on actively encourage people to not be lazy. Wanting people to live happily and to their full potential may sound altruistic but it's better than wishing for something just good for myself.

To hell with messiah garbage; I'm just sick of people needlessly suffering. If the messiahs or their overlord were worth a damn things wouldn't be the way they are anyway. Besides I realize it would be a largely thankless and unending task but it would be the most ideal and useful life I can imagine, to actually make people truly better in ways that medicine can't come close to touching yet.

Map 20 Very intense opening; I was darting all over the place. The dropdown fight past the two Archviles is just ridiculous. Maybe if we were handed a megasphere first, I dunno. You have to tank so much damage it's insane. It took me a lot of skill and luck to survive, and those are in short supply. Eventually the main door to the final arenafight is lowered; there's a Cyberdemon and lots of friends. It's really easy to skip this whole fight by darting for a teleporter that leads to the end, but I am quite committed to monster extermination unfortunately. Eventually I prevail but maybe this monster killing thing is an exercise in pointlessness; at most i'm just testing whether the ammo is sufficient, which is pointless at this stage as it's not betatesting. I already know I can kill the enemy in most any situations, so maybe I should start trying to give speedrunning a try, though I think I woefully lack the skills at the moment. At any rate, that's the map; it looks good and plays okay, a bit hectic for my tastes but it's fine.

I want the ability to heal others.

40oz: Drat, I just could not figure it out for the life of me. I suppose I can try again someday, but not for awhile... every time i got the bars to disappear and the skull lowered they'd just rematerialize. Got too frustrated. Map 05 Another huge labyrinth chock full of bad guys to kill. It's a solid and well thought out map, tons of intricate paths and locations, interesting encounters, etc. I can't come up with any complaints or recommendations. It feels weird to say that after playing a map for a really long time and knowing myself to be such a picky person but it was a fine experience. Tough an fun, long and interesting. Map 06 The SSG fight is really cool, I like how the room changes immediately and the fight is in pitch black. The Hellknight pincer attack a bit later might be too much, I'm not sure. There's certainly not time to really take them out in that tiny box with the SSG, or to do much in the way of dodging them before they close in and slash, so I had to evacuate past everything to safety. Maybe that's the intended reaction though, I wouldn't know. Rest of map works fine, had a good time. Map 07 I like the difficulty and ammo starvation, along with the mood of the map. I didn't have anything to complain about till the final lift fight with four teleports around it; it occurs to me that there really ought to be some additional health in the area, perhaps simply a medipack on each of the four teleports. It's just really, really hard with the growing pack of Revenants firing in from afar like that and no health replenishment other than the probably badly needed supply that was laid out at the area from the outset. Then again if nobody else has a problem with it I guess it's not necessary and I'm just an inferior player. Map 08 Had fun storming the compound. Also had to reload the hell out of the RL fight with the Archvile. There's practically no cover and no time to kill it before it gets off a hit; if you're not prepared to tank a hit you're probably screwed. I only got lucky when it finally darted about a second before trying to resurrect. I couldn't come up with a practical non-cheese way to engage the first Cyberdemon, so I left it alive. I think there's just too much close quarters from every angle, there's no avoiding the splash damage. Later when I found the BFG I went back for it but it was still a very tough fight I had to try lots of times. It is in this sense I suppose that the secret adjacent to that room has its greatest value, what it brings to the fight if one has opened it. The fight just past the red bars might be triggered too early; everything starts porting in so quickly that there's almost no chance to actually be in the circular room for it, so one is pushed back to basically camping the entrance while loads of infighting goes on. Never found all of the enemies but I'm pretty sure they were in secrets I didn't discover. Really nice map; if I had any other complaint it would be the lack of a final confrontation past the yellow door prior to the exit; the player has tons of ammo, health, and armor most likely at this point and the wad deserves a big brawl to go out with a bang on. As it stands, the last hurrah is that port-in infighting one that I couldn't even squeeze into the room for. Oh actually there's a minor port in fight when getting the YK but that's a little weak for that far into the map as a final conflict too in my opinion. Great job on this mapset!

Really cool map! Got all of the giant skull switches except for the one in path 1; it's perpetually blocked by bars, I've hit every switch I can find and been pretty thorough. Edit: Lol, nevermind figured it out. I do think that that one pillar leading to the raised platforms from the skull switches being a lift could be more obvious; it could be textured in a more standard lift texture for example. http://imgur.com/a/DAWcg This guy right here was the only enemy I couldn't kill; no idea why he was visible this way or what's wrong with him. Anyway I found the map to be pretty solid, nothing to recommend except that perhaps there should be a big final confrontation. I was loaded for bear with all sorts of ammo and ready to throw down, but all that awaited me past the Icon of Sin textures seemed to be a couple PE's from what I remember.

Anybody wanna see me go nuts? Let's get nuts! Map 19 Well, it's yet another map. I feel like this wad is making me jaded somehow. Perhaps I'm being unfair to it. Kill off some hitscanners as Cacos circle around from behind a few boxes. Plowing through a steady supply of meat leads to eventually staring at a collection of Revenants and Arachnotrons with their backs to you behind a barrier guarding the YK. Hitting a switch opens that up, and on the way back around to get access through the tunnel that was cleared earlier, a parade of meat comes marching through that one must mow down. It's almost a chore, all this tunnelfighting and just constant SSG use. Speaking of which, when i finally get to the monster collection guarding the YK, I'm down to 12 shells. Um... fuck. So I count on infighting to do as much as I can as I sneak in and grab up the items and YK. Darting in and out a few time I finally see some needed ammo and am able to finish off the team of Revenants that have survived. I liked the difference this sort of encounter made so even though I think its a shame the tunnel meat had to even be there, I'm glad it meant i walked into this battle virtually unarmed. I play a while longer and eventually get to a drop down to a Mancubus past the BK door. A dead end ensues, followed by yet another Revenant horde with two Archviles in this basement with practically no cover. The thing about this encounter that really sets me off though is that there are rockets everywhere, and it's by far the ideal weapon for this, but there is no RL on the map, at least not unless it is in a secret or something. I mean I've been seeing back and forth about whether this is really a Pistol Start mapset and all I can say is that if it is, it does a pretty lame job of it at too many times. After numerous attempts I give up that the fight is simply not possible in this environment with the SSG alone and type 'give rocketlauncher'. I guess I'm a cheater, I dunno. But the map is bullshit so fuck it. Even after that it takes lots of attempts to survive; this encounter also really needs armor. And there's no health pickups between this and the next fight past the RK door? The hell, Foodles and playtesters... just whatever. I'm already cheating anyway so i give myself a soulsphere and head into an arena fight surrounded by Mancs and Hellknights with almost no cover. I mean at this point I would call this a troll map if it were isolated and I didn't have awareness of the author. I try everything and cannot figure out a way forward amidst this arena fight. The thing that looks like it maybe could turn into a lift is already lowered. I go around wallhumping and keep dying as it goes on. I eventually am running around doing some of this when I see that the wall behind the teleport-in has lowered. When the hell did this happen, was it a timed thing? I reload and put on IDDQD to investigate this mess. After trying damn near everything I find out that you're supposed to wallhump the wooden wall portion where it looks like a lift will raise later. THAT soundlessly lowers the wall behind the teleport. Who the heck even does this? If someone has tried that already and heard nothing and died, they're not going to keep trying it and just looking around. That's like... no. It's just wrong. Anyway the trick after that is to go around the perimeter, hit a switch that raises the lift, then up that lift and step into the exit. Bluh.

Map 18 Again with the Revenant horde, this time right at the beginning behind some Demons. After I dispatch them, down comes a wall and it's three Mancubi staring at me down a corridor. After I'm done clearing the clogged passage and picking off a few stray enemies, a few surprise Lost Souls end up sneaking up on me which I sort of like. I raise a bridge, and then there's this annoying switchunt puzzle sequence. I hate these so much. Who wants to try to figure out a system of hidden switches in a honeycomb complex of little techrooms? No one. ~No one~. It's enough to make me just want to say screw it on this level, but instead i cheese it with saves. At least it means less redundant running around. After I teleport there's a cluster of enemies and soon a Cacoswarm comes to join the fun; I like this encounter. The teleporting Archvile soon after by the Imps was disarming so I liked that too. The map completed uneventfully; I killed everything and found all secrets, and to be honest I'm just not that thrilled with this map.

UV, pistol starts, 100% kills Map 01 Nice little map here. Not much anything in the way of challenge but it is just the first map after all. There is obviously a tremendous glut of secrets, all of which being so unnecessary or even called for in the map that it's a little puzzling. I sort of wish getting some of them resulted in spawn in encounters or something, to be a tradeoff. But if that's not the sort of thing you're going for, I understand. Map 02 Hmm, well for continuous players I see the value of the RL on the prior map now. There's almost a mocking quantity of rockets littered about the map, which I suppose at least motivates the player to secret hunt to be able to use them. Personally I think the likelihood that a player will either inadvertently shoot the wall revealing the blue armor or never ever think to shoot there means there might be something wrong with the secret's setup. perhaps a barely visible shootable switch in the large room with where the Revenants were on pillars would be better? Anyway though I found the RL, I did not use it out of testing purposes. This meant that I got to find out how cool the ammo balance in the map is, as i ended with 9 bullets. That honestly is how I think maps ideally should work out, to help contain the advantage continuous players attain as well as to keep the combat intense and every shot mattering. I also like how the map changed dynamically so much and unfolds as one proceeds and secret hunts. It's a pretty excellent place. Map 03 This map is, needless to say, very intricate, tight and thoroughly populated. It's quite easy to get lost or overwhelmed, as happened to me a few times. There's often so many directions to choose to go and so many switches and doors and monster reveals. It's pretty darn cool. Sometimes a sense of progression can be lost, but I think that's just sometimes the nature of maps such as this. The northeast area of the has a slight imbalance in ammo placement; I was reduced to quite a bit of tysoning using the secret berserk when I prefer not to utilize secrets while testing. Just moving a shellbox from near the switch near the BK to near the teleporter from the southwestern portion of the map would help tremendously. The southeastern area however has quite a bit, which is fine I guess for a map such as this one. I ended up going to the RK fight and beyond last of the three somehow, and eventually found quite an ammo closet to stock up on, so I suppose if a player went there they would never have had my ammo difficulty. When one teleports to the exit area, when standing on that pad, they might still be secret hunting like I was and try to go left, right, or back to explore the computer panels. Well, I did this and maybe it's just the engine I was using (Zandro) but I got stuck in each one of the compartments, having to duck or clip to get out. Strange that I could move in but not out, which is why I mention my engine. Map is very impressive in scope and execution. Map 04 Small tight map complete with tense gameplay. The visuals are nice, I like the look of the RK room and the fireblu pillars and fissure. The switch-to-door-or-pillar aspect of the RK room is however pretty annoying, especially having to dart around to get things to happen again if one screws up the sequence to get the key. Maybe make them stay open? I ultimately couldn't even figure out how to get the key, and spent plenty of time going over and over the sequence. In the end I just grabbed the key and moved on. Also I feel there should be a way to get back into the RK wing once one rises out; as currently stands the switch to lower the way in is one time use only unfortunately, preventing thorough exploration and 100% everything for some people most likely. Some of the Chaingunners near the end did not port in properly; three were just wandering around their cage and occasionally finally porting in which took a while. Also the two Mancubi never ported in no matter what I did, so there may be something broken there. Despite all my bitching the map is okay conceptually, just had a lot to report is all.