Tuxlar
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Posts posted by Tuxlar
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I wonder how a discussion like this would pan out if Slige/Oblige (or else any template-based map generator in general) were just but one practical option for map generation...
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scifista42 said:These are really interesting comparisons of real-life thinking to a game.
I'm just having fun with interpretations. Sometimes I do get legit-useful insight from thinking in such ways, even if they're a stretch.
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scifista42 said:Do you think it's worth it, given the low interest in your project? I ask, not imply.
Interest != value. Minimalism stands on its own, besides.
Anyway, it's a reference, not a tutorial. Should have done it properly right from the start. -
scifista42 said:Blue door is red-locked, otherwise nice. With some more height variation and better texturing than default STARTAN, I believe it might be seriously good, even - at least for the concept.
Noted. Also fixed it to work properly with constraints, but the SMM use is a bit less oppressive, as a result. Still accomplish their intended purpose, however. Left it un-textured, to emphasize it's ultra minimalist-ness (and totally not because I'm a lazy ass).
I'm going to look into making a better reference guide for building common structures within constraints, soon. Might shave off some of the learning curve. -
I want to offer some ways to interpret the poll options:
- When I lose interest. - Your (ultimate) goal is undefined, and may not even be existent. You are going with the flow. The product/service at hand is itself irrelevant beyond its pleasurable qualities. Regardless of whatever it means to the world, to you, it's only a single-player game.
- When everyone else loses interest. - Your goal is whatever others' goals happen to be. The product/service itself doesn't matter, as long as others are made happy by it. To you, it's a multi-player coop game.
- Done is done. There is no grey area. - Your goal is to live up to standards. The product/service is irrelevant; it is but a practice for, and an expression of your ability and will to execute decisions already made. To you, it's a matter of honor; a multi-player competitive game.
- There is no done. Just 'acceptably unfinished'. - Your goal is presently undefined, but constrained by what it isn't, and upper-bound by an idea of what it could be. The product/service exists only as a means to solve a problem. To you, it's a puzzle game.
- There is no done. I am literally a slave to my work. - Your goal IS the upper-bound idea of what it could be. The eternally-elusive state of absolute perfection. The product/service is like life itself for you, and you're seeking nothing short of immortality itself (figuratively). To you, it's like an unending survival and/or sandbox game.
- When I lose interest. - Your (ultimate) goal is undefined, and may not even be existent. You are going with the flow. The product/service at hand is itself irrelevant beyond its pleasurable qualities. Regardless of whatever it means to the world, to you, it's only a single-player game.
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Speaking of ultra-minimalism with that design, I give you the Best Map In The History Of Forever! God help me.
In slightly more serious news, here's v1.5 of UAC Budget Cuts, improving on visuals, fixing some constraint violations (doh!), and tweaking balance a bit more.
Also, NoisyVelvet has sent me a snapshot of his map's layout with some gameplay. If he doesn't plan to continue, I'll try to finish it off myself at some point, time permitting. Seems worth salvaging; it's surprisingly spacious and good flowing, constraints or not. -
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Some tricks I like to use:
- It's okay for monsters to kill you, it's not okay to (unavoidably) take too long to kill them. Not my tip, but worth repeating.
- Plan monster encounters as if the player has a half-broken backpeddling key, and for some reason takes damage if they're made to stay in one area for more than 10 seconds. Running backwards constantly is often unfun, camping choke points is ofen unfun.
- Monsters placement should balance between easily-skippable and practically-unskippable. You shouldn't need 100% kills to beat the map, but on the same note, pacifist runs should be a real challenge.
- Not every area of the map is required to have monsters, and not all monster encounters need be life-threatening. Some encounters are just for the long-game; they're to put you in weird positions just to make you trip up and consume a few bits of ammo or health that you'll feel the sting for, later on.
- This one's very specific, and one I've learned recently: Don't trust Archviles. There's always a certain temptation (especially if you're aiming for some kind of replay value) to turn archviles loose to revive fallen monsters. If you do this, treat them like prisoners; they WILL try to break free of your intentions and overthrow your map balance!
- It's okay for monsters to kill you, it's not okay to (unavoidably) take too long to kill them. Not my tip, but worth repeating.
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Also, I wish there was a Thing flag for when a level begins with a pistol start (rather than a carry over).
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Vermil said:The issue I think that is being raised is that there is no specific statement of what 'limit removing' actually means (or meant, as it probably can't be retroactively decided at this stage); which limits is it specifically referring to.
Certainly, things like visplanes are basically universally agreed to be 'limit removing'. But what about infinite Z height etc.Or even things like MIDI vs MUS, technically-speaking.
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TimeOfDeath said:Tuxlar: If a wad was specifically made as limit-removing (example: prboom-plus -complevel 2) then you shouldn't play it in boom compatibility because of how monsters fall off cliffs and no ghosts in boom, etc. Differentiating between boom and limit-removing is also helpful from an editing perspective because there are many more editing features in boom.
Ah, forgot about ghosts. That's a very definite boom-unfriendly situation, but I imagine trading ghosts for boom features is still a small price, for many purposes. It is possible (but not always elegant, maybe) to compensate for the ledge issue with design, though.
With all those conditions satisfied (and if you don't particularly care about Doomsday players, I guess), and if you don't have a logical reason (e.g. constraints for fun), THEN boom might be considered physically interchangeable with limit removing.
...I guess it's best to just consider them distinct, after all. -
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The issue that bugs me is the separation between 'limit removing' and 'boom compatible'. That is, physically there's almost no reason to not consider the two interchangeable; what sane popular ports remove limits that haven't also implemented boom, by now? I mean, sure, boom has some weirdness issues between ports, and some even in its own specification (ledge-stuck monsters seem to be the big one?). I'd say vanilla-only (AKA complevel 2, I guess?) weirdness issues (NOT limits!) can also be annoyances, for different reasons. In any case, both have their workarounds, I'm finding.
If you're not using vanilla limits for reasons of humility or fun constraints, there doesn't seem to me to be a truly justifying reason to consider boom and 'limit removing' distinct, with the possible exception of making a "limit removing" map with potential intent to later back-port back to vanilla. -
That turns out to be a pretty good balance of space and cover. I bet you could get away with (almost) an entire map of only that design, now that I think about it (for the utmost of minimalist purposes, I mean).
If the goal is to simply maximize open space, a grid of 32x32 pillars seems to be the best option. Thin pillars can be a bit annoying for navigation, however, so it's best to use areas like these sparingly.
Update: A few minor updates to my map (v1.4):
- Blunted some 'dickish' moments, slightly.
- Fixed some bugs and HOMs. -
Doomkid said:I would love to see wad rotation on-the-fly become a port standard, and in a way that's easy for users to configure. I think Eternity does this too (I could be wrong!)
Most importantly, it ought to be easy to share and use. It should work as loading any wad works now, along with even a way to auto-acquire all its required resource wads, map wads, etc.
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It's pretty sad - OBLIGE makes better maps than most people
in Doom General
Posted
For what use? Why would the world need such a thing with all the decent maps already out there?
Only sane reason I can think of is for a cheap source of tailored filler maps for custom game modes that require mod accommodations within the map designs themselves, and where making such maps by hand would be overly time consuming/expensive.