Major Arlene

so... making another thread to complain about redundant threads? dare I say, redundant? on the less snarky side, maybe we just need a "commonly asked questions" subforum and a mods suggestions thread stickied somewhere

yes

I guess it's not a coincidence then you were just asking about whether or not you could modify other people's maps for your own amusement and make videos about it? Which, for the record, people gave you plenty of feedback about that too whether or not they'd be comfortable with it, including myself and I said I'm ambivalent about it, but I sense a pattern with a lot of AI apologists that they want to experience creativity a mile wide and an inch deep, which is an exhausting way to experience any kind of niche to begin with, but then also want to be awarded for it or told that the way they're doing it is correct. Obviously no one's going to agree on the best way to experience or create art, but people are generally going to appreciate it more when you actually put in the effort yourself or commission someone to help you achieve your vision. AI simply just pushes out a bunch of gray goo and you'll find yourself rarely satisfied with the results of that.

A human that uses AI probably won't replace me, but a company stupid enough to believe AI could replace me might. edit: like I mentioned before, poisoning of useful tools. don't want to use Photoshop anymore because of its stupid genAI tools, including forcing that information into metadata even if I don't use the tools.

Glad this has turned into a bunch of shit-flinging, was only a matter of time before the AI bros started calling AI skeptics window-licking Luddites. Currently waiting for someone to start quoting Ayn Rand's Anthem to draw comparisons to anti-AI folks to the judges freaking out about lightbulbs. difference here is that lightbulbs do the job better than candles. AI currently does not do the job better than other automated tools on the market and has poisoned several useful tools to become useless and bloated pieces of software that no one can use. it's a tool without use cases as far as creative endeavors go - or really for any type of online curation. editing to avoid double posting: the problem here is that if a printing press plagiarised (which is now known as "publishing a book", often on kindle) and you searched for those words elsewhere and found them, then it's an open and shut case. ChatGPT, on the other hand, remixes the words *just enough* so that you would have to do a lot more searching to figure out what it's plagiarising from, but not only that - it's not telling you what it's sourcing from to remix. this is why in the case of James Somerton, people maybe didn't find as many cases of plagiarism as someone like Hbomberguy did, because he would change words around enough to throw off a Google search. not sourcing your work is part of the reason plagiarism is an issue. otherwise every time we quoted someone, it would be considered plagiarism if you fully just ignored that context.

I'll also note too, the reason I get pissed off about people who bring AI stuff in here is that often times they just go and insult everyone who actually makes things in order to lower everyone's standards to accept whatever slop they're schlocking. why should I waste any time on a tool made by someone who fundamentally does not care about the things we make? If I find Alfred Hitchcock was constantly talking about how shitty a person I was, you'd best believe I wouldn't be shilling his movies.

Wow man, the torment nexus that mixes people's hard work into gray slop makes them artists mad? who would've guessed? edit: I know how snarky and non-responsive this reply is to the rest of your novel, but I honestly just do not give a shit. we as a community are allowed to reject shit that we don't want around us. there's no nice way to say it.

I wouldn't have an issue with it personally, and in fact I do tend to do some of that in order to reverse-engineer and learn how someone's done something in their map.

You, too, could be that dad, had you not spent 30 years looking for shortcuts and instead actually worked at your craft.

well that may have been helpful to put in your OP. at that point it's like your own personal OBLIGE. different from diffusing maps that are not your own which is what most of us do not want to happen. Noone's maps have to be Cacoward material or even published, but if you're going to advertise a tool, it helps to have a body of work behind you to build reputation & repoire. that's why people assume things like "you just took other people's maps to make this". There's been dozens of projects with those constraints that are good, which tells me exactly how much you actually engage with the subject you pretend to care about so much. You're a grown-ass adult, I understand insecurity to an extent but you're never going to grow in your work without critique. at least think about it.

procgen =/= scraped from other work. procgen like Slige/Oblige is used in other game development applications all the time.

have you actually ever made a map by hand, genuine question? I can't find a single map you've finished and from what I can tell in your posting history, you seem to just not be able to make anything, only come up with ideas. which tells me that you have fundamentally refused to grasp mapping basics since 1996, or even put a single bit of your own work out there to have critiqued so you can improve. these layouts are shit. therefore, the rest of the map will be shit unless you completely transform these layouts until they're unrecognizable, which kind of makes this entire exercise pointless. edit: you answered my first question and Gez also made my point for me. I think it's sad that you won't take the leap to just publish any of your work so people can critique it and you can improve. AI won't make it any better or easier for you. So, are you saying these are from your own unfinished layouts? this is a very unclear answer.

I missed this part of the post originally, and, I mean, no. These layouts are just fundamentally bad and you would be told that. I invite you to look at the reviews of the very first map I made which was poorly laid out and didn't play well. It wasn't AI generated, it was just bad. The use of the term "AI generated" signals "I didn't bother to make this", and therefore, no one is necessarily compelled to play it. I think OBLIGE & adjacent works also tend to carry this stigma even though the process is different. Well obviously someone published the maps you based this project on. I'm talking about the read-me's that came with the maps you trained on.

Doesn't answer my question about whether or not their read-mes allow for reuse :)